SRIMATHE RAMANUJAYA NAMAHA. Dear Sri Vishnu, The definition was not given by me, but given by Bhagavad Ramanuja himself in VS verse 182. This is as it appears in the translation of VS by Sri S.S. Raghavachar, published in the year 2002 by Advaita ashrama, Kolkatta, Please take note that whenever this writer gives some information as a quote, the source also will be mentioned and no tinkering will be done. The writer's own inference will be given as writer's opinion and not as some body else's, leave alone a mammoth figure of the sampradhayam. In fact this writer decided to chip in only when she found the debate on this topic drifting away from core versions of Ramanuja and Brahma sutras. The sanskrit version of the quote given in my mail is produced below. So also the translation of rest of the verse to understand what this special excellence clause that Ramanuja talks about. Based on this the writer sees no discrepancy in what is being said in this quote and that which appears in Sharanagathi and Ranga gadhyam. The quote in sanskrit:- (Verse 182) "ayamEva hi sarvathra sEshasEshibhAva: - paragathAthishyAdhyAnEcchyA upA-dEyathvamEva yasya swarUpam sa sEsha:. Para: sEshI." The continuation of the verse:- " Out of the desire to produce the fruit of the sacrifice, both the sacrifice and the volitional exertion for the sake of sacrifice, come to be undertaken, The accessories of sacrifice, come to be attended to, out of desire to accomplish the sacrifice. Similarly, in the case of servants their nature lies only in being valued on account of the desire to contribute something special to the master. Similarly all entities, sentient and non-sentient, eternal and non-eternal, have as their sole nature, the character of being valued through a desire to make some special contribution to the Supreme. Hence all entities are described as subsidiary to Him." (The explanation relevant to your query ends here. Anyway, the continuation of the verse is given here to understand the metamorphosis in thought from giving some `special contribution' to Him into accomplishing that which is highly desirable.) The quote continues:- "He is the principal entity, the Lord of all, the sEshin. The srutis say, "He is the controller of all, the Lord of all (BR VI-iv-22)", " The master of the universe etc (Maha)". Therefore the definition "That which is attainable through effort and is the prinicipal is the meaning of `what is to be accomplished'" is one that can charm only credulous followers." (end of the verse) Dear readers, it is interesting to note that Ramanuja arrives at this definition after due analysis of other ways of explaining sesha and seshin which are found in the previous verse. The entire analysis takes place in the context of explaining the meaning, purpose and fruits of sacrifices. In the previous verse, he wonders whether it is right to define the principal as "being aimed at by the act" (of sacrifice). In that case the definition is needed to be given to two expressions "being that to which others are subsidiary" and "that which is subsidiary to another". This will give a correlative definition of the two by which the principal will come to be regarded as "that which is to be done". "But it is precisely this factor described as `what is to be done' whose definition is sought", says Ramanuja. So he goes on to look at other ways of defining. He wonders whether the subsidiary can be defined as "That which is invariably subsumed under an effort aiming at a purpose beyond itself ". But here also comes the question of what is that "aiming at a purpose beyond itself". Since the very purpose of the entire discussion is to find out precisely what this `aiming at' principal entity is (Ramanuja says like this), he attempts to find better definition. He now looks at what others say like "To be aimed at as a purpose is to be desired and to be possible". Looking at this definition, Ramanuja wonders what is `being desired?' If others (opponents) say it `is to be the purpose of effort', Ramanuja thinks that the purpose of effort is already is established (in previous verses). He says "the purpose of effort is the purpose for realising which an agent puts forth effort." The nature of the purpose has already been determined as being the object of desire. Therefore the effort of the agent comes into picture here. It is in this context of what kind of effort the subsidiary is putting forth, that Ramanuja arrives at the definition based on what the subsidiary does to the Principal, which he explains in the next verse. The definition therefore is from the point of view of the subsidiary (the kind of effort that it has to put through ? by contributing special excellence to the principal, just as how a servant works up to be viewed as someone capable of contributing special service that would be valued by the master) and the principal is merely said as `para: sEshI". Taking cue from this, one is able to grasp the perspective of what Gitacharyan means when He says that the Gyani is too close to Him and it is difficult to find such a gyani. It is an uphill task to become one as the gyani. The difficulty in attaining that state is due to the kind of efforts that have to be put into. And He is one who needs to be understood / attained by such valuable efforts.The `avashyapeshitam' qualities set for the Srivaishnavite by Mumukshuppadi also come into my mind as they add value to the efforts of the seeker. Such a person is indeed the one who is blessed to get `anthamil pErinbam' whom the vaikunthathu amarar would receive "vaikunthan thamaremar; emadu idam puguga." Regards, AdiyaL. --- In ramanuja@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Vishnu" <vsmvishnu@xxxx> wrote Dear Smt Jayashree, Will you please give the orginal vEdArtha sangraha verse? If we go by the definition give by you, why does rAmAnuja use words like "aSEhAvassthOchita aSEsha SEshataika rati", "aSEsha chidachidvastu SEshi bhUta" in SaraNAgati gadyam? > Ramanuja in his Gita Bhashyam to verse 7-16 on the 4th > type of devote who happens to be a `man of knowledge' > describes him as one who has the knowledge of the > essential nature of the self in being a sesha. That is OK. dAsan Vishnu ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. 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