srImathE rAmAnujAya namaha srImadh varavara munayE namaha Dear Members, this is a very long message as necessitated by the fragile nature of the topic. I request you all to read this in full, if at all you are reading. All my replies are intertwined and if you miss even one portion, there is a high possibility you may get mislead. Dear Sri Krishna, I cannot agree to most part of your comments. Sorry to say this so bluntly, but I request you to read it as just a constructive criticism and not to denigrate your views. -------------------------Quote 1--------------------------------- > ALL JEEVATHMAS are measured by their deeds. we have come to do karma. > But every person is vested with some responsibility based on his > birth. He has to full fill all his responsibility. For example all > Brahmins have to do Nithya Karmas/ Nithya Anushthanam. -----------------------Unquote 1--------------------------------- Are you really sure about this? I am sure that this is not the case. The nitya karma et al are to be fulfilled only for the sAdhana bhakthi nishTars. For the prapannAs who have put all their burden on Sriman Narayanan, where is the time of doing all these nitya karmAs. As Sri Krishna says in Bhagavat Gita, the bhakthi and hence the concentration on him should be continuous without any break just like the flow of oil (sloka: 'thailadhArA....'). So where is the time for one to do his nitya karma. Another standing example, quoted from vArthAmAlai of Sri pinbazhagiya perumAL jeeyar (Sorry I do not have the number of 'vArthai' correctly as I am away from home). Once on a dwAdasi day, Sri Bhattars mother comes to him (This is after Sri kUratthAzhwAn attaining paramapadham) and asks him for perumAL thIrtham to end her EkAdasi upavAsam (fasting), for which Sri Bhattar questioned, "Do you have so much time and vairAghyam to even forget perumAL and get involved in all these vrathams". What a word. What does this signify for a kainkaryapara or a prapannA, the only duty to keep all the burden on Sriman Narayanan and live at His mercy. This is what exactly Sri ThoNdaradippodi AzhwAr says in ThirumAlAi pAsuram 'mEmporuL pOga viTTu.........vAzhum sOmbarai ugatthi pOlum madhiL thiruvarangatthAnE'. Look at the words 'vAZhum sOmbar'. This pAsuram is the lifeline of ThirumAlai, just like the Charama slOkam for Sri Bhagavadh Gita. In this pAsuram the AzhwAr asks all of us to renounce everthing and just do nothing to earn anything. It is only His mercy and grace which will give one the mOksha. There was an AchAryA who lived true to these above words. He is Sri ThirukkaNNamangai ANdAn. His story is very well known to everybody as it is quite often quoted in Sri Vachana BhooshaNam et al. He once saw two masters fighting and dying over the death of a dog. Then he realized, "if for the sake of just a lowly animal like dog, its owner can enter into a fight and die, will the emberumAn who is the owner of this lowly animal that is me (what a humility on part of him), not take care of me and give me the mOksham". Thinking so, he just remained without doing anything to earn the mOksham and eventually got it. There are many more examples and explaining everything on a e-mail forum like this will only prolong the message and will make it less interesting for people to read. So I stop here for this point. ---------------------Quote 2----------------------------------- > If even one thing is pending, then it is very difficult to attain > moktcham. > > On the above case, I am sure that I can never attain him. Hope many > of you will join me. ------------------Unquote 2------------------------------------- The above case is true only when the mOksham can be 'earned'. The ThennAchAryAs refute this view very clearly. Yes, Sriman Narayanan, who is the only Supreme God who can give mOksham is a 'nirankusa swathanthran' (nirankusa swAthanthriyam - Unfettered independence). He is 'aVaptha samastha kAman', the one who has everthing and doesn't expect anything. There are many other kalyANa guNAs, but for refuting this statement I will only take this two. By the first guNa, He can grant mOksham to anyone He likes. He is not bound by anything nor expects anything in return to grant mOksham. This is the second guNa. All our AzhwArs and AchAryAs have clearly stated that He cannot have any blemish in His guNAs and if one says that one has to complete all the karmAs for Him to grant mOksham then it is against the title 'avAptha samastha kAman'. On the other hand the present day vadakalai AchAryAs support this view to extent. Even they do not agree that one has to complete all his Karmas. They only differ in that, for them, Bhakthi and Prapatthi are both sAdhyOpAyam and they WILL earn mOksham. They are also of the same opinion that EmberumAn will grant mOksham to anyone He wishes, but based on the upAya anushTAnam. This is strongly refuted by ThennAchAryAs. The ThennAchAryAs claim is that, even if one says He grants mOksham based on an upAya anushTam it will only defame Him of his title of 'avAptha samastha kAman', as it will be looked upon as He is expecting something to grant mOksham. The following pAsuram from Thirucchanda viruttam cleary explains the 'nirankusa swAthanthriyam' of Sriman Narayanan. pAsuram 85: nacharAvaNaikkidandha nAdha! pAdha pOdhinil vaittha sindhai vAnguvitthu neenguvikka nee inam meitthan vallaiyAdhalAl aRindhanan nin mAyamE uiytthu nin mayakkinil mayakkal ennai mAyanE [AzhwAr says, "vaittha sindhai vAnguvithhu". This means He is capable of taking back the thoughts (about Him) that He has given to the AzhwAr (and hence the jeevAthmA) and also "neenguvitthu", meaning, completely getting rid off. His capability is expressed by the words " meitthan vallai" (surely you can). Finally says by doing this He is mesmerising (mayakkinil) him (AzhwAr) and hence "please do not do this to me"]. Does one need a more authentic pAsuram than this to support the fact that He is 'nirankusa swathanthran'. So rest assured that nothing on the part of the jeevAthmA is necessary to 'earn' mOksham. He is like mother to everybody. He knows when to feed who and with what. So He will do it automatically and at His will. ----------------------Quote 3----------------------------------- > But Bakthi is a very wide subject. > > It starts from bottom most and goes higher and higher. Even just > chanting Perumal names will do. Give atleast one of your 5 pulans for > his sake at a time. That is to say, atleast think of him, atleast > utter his names, atleast see his photos/vigrahams, or atleast hear > about him. > > ORU NAMAM SONNALE PODHUM. ----------------Unquote 3-------------------------------------- These words can only be an answer to the following question. If as indicated above, the JeevAthmA need not do anything to 'earn' mOksham, then what is the purpose of this life? The answer is what you wrote. Remember Sri Thirmazhisai AzhwAr in his nAnmugan thiruvandhAdhi says '.....therithezhudhi vAsitthum, kettum, vaNangi, vazhi pattum, poositthum, pOkinEn pOdhu'. Means, to just pass the time, one can just read about Him, or hear about Him, or just pray with out any expectation, or do a pooja just as a kainkaryam. Please note that the word 'kainkaryam' has a very broader meaning than that what people think of, these days. The act done by a 'kinkara' is called 'kainkaryam'. Who is a 'kinkara'. He is the one who just does what his master orders or wishes. The kinkara always remains in a ready state to serve saying 'kim karOmi', 'kim karOmi', meaning, 'what should I do'. So just by doing some service in a temple and afterwards, saying that nobody respects me there is not at all a kainkaryam. 'Kainkaryam' has to true in the sense as indicated above. So if that is the case, where is the question of Him granting mOksham only after the completion of a karma. --------------------Quote 4------------------------------------ > My understanding in this subject is this. > > BEFORE DOING ANY ACT WE SHOULD ASK OURSELF, WHETHER PERUMAL WILL > ACCEPT THIS, DOES HE GIVE ME A PAT ON MY BACK FOR DOING THIS > > IF YES, DO THAT ELSE LEAVE IT > > DO GOOD ALWAYS AND GIVE CREDIT TO HIM. > > DOING KARMAS OR GOOD DEEDS WITHOUT INVOLVING HIM WILL TAKE LOT OF > TIME TO REACH HIM. -------------------Unquote 4-------------------------------- Accepted. But how do you know, what you are doing is pleasing him? Does He come and tell you in person that, 'I liked this deed of yours. So continue this'. No not at all. Our part is only to do the things as ordained by Him and though His getting pleased is a welcome side effect. That is why the ThennAchArya sampradhAyasthars still say 'Bhagavat kainkarya roopam' instead of 'Bhagavath preethyartham' in their sankalpams. If one says, I have done this to please you, so get pleased, it means, he is imposing something upon Him, which is not at all possible. Who are we to impose anything on Him. Also on the other hand, if one thinks whatever he has done is pleasing for Him, then it only amounts to AhankAra, mamakAram on the part of jeevAthmA which is again very detrimental to attaining mOksha. But having confused with the above para, one may question as to how to differentiate between the good and bad deeds. This is where the AchAryA comes to our rescue. EmberumAn doesn't come before us directly to order us to do some thing. He sends His messengers who are the AchAryAs to do that for Him. So a good AchAryA is the one who can let us know how to differentiate between the right and wrong thing. That is why Sri maNavALa mAmunigaL says in his UpadEsa rathina mAlai, 'gnyAnam anuttAnam ivai nanRAgavE udayanAna guruvai adaindhakkAl, mAnilatheer thEnAr kamalath thirumAmagaL kozhunan, thAnE vaikuntham tharum'. A very important pAsuram highlighting the need of an AchArya, which proper anushTAnams and knowledge, to attain mOksham. There are two more beautiful rahasyams in this pAsuram. First, by bringing in the reference to pirAtti ('thirumAmagaL kozhunan'), Sri mAmunigaL confirms that the mOksham is bestowed by Narayanan in unison with Sri. Second, by using the word 'thAnE' he clearly says that He( meaning Narayanan in unision with Sri) will grant mOksha by Himself and needs nothing else in return. -----------------------Quote 5----------------------------- > > WE HAVE TO RELATE OURSELF WITH HIM IN ONE WAY OR THE OTHER > (BROTHER/SISTER, FATHER/SON, FRIENDS, GURU/SISHYAN, ETC ETC) AND TO > INVOLVE HIM ALSO INTO TO OUR DAY TO DAY ACTIVITIES. THIS TWO IS VERY > VERY IMPORTANT TO REACH HIM QUICKER. ------------------Unquote 5------------------------------ One can agree with this view, if only the last 4 words 'TO REACH HIM QUICKER', can be removed, as with this it becomes a condition to get mOksham and also that some deed on the part of jeevAthmA can earn mOksham, which is not true. ----------------------Quote 6------------------------------------ > But nothing to worry . Perumal with all his Kalyana Gunas/abara > karunai is only trying to bring every body to his fold and to shower > his fullest blessings. He is waiting for us in all temples and having > a resolution to go back only after taking the last jeevathma in this > world with him. -------------------Unquote 6--------------------------------- These are the very best words that can explain all that I said above in toto. Yes, it is He who does something to reach us. I remember Sri MA Venkatakrishnan swamy saying in one of his upanyAsams, that, the jeevAtma is just like a watch that we wear every day. It shows us correct time, because it is its duty. If it doesn't work properly, the loss is for its owner that is us, and not for it as it is only an achit vasthu. If it does not work properly, it becomes the duty of its owner to correct if for his enjoyment. Same is the relationship of the JeevAthmA with that of the paramAtmA Sriman Narayanan. The watch is the jeevAthmA and the owner is Sriman Narayanan. No other analogy is needed to better explain this context. Request members to correct me for any misinformations I may have given in the above. Dear Sri Krishna, once again, please do not take this as an offensive mail. I am only putting forth the points that I heard in many upanyAsams and read in many book. So if my wordings have hurt you, please be assured that they are not intentional. Also, I request you and all other members to consider those sentences, above where I written as if referring to you(Sri Krishna), as a common sentence only and not particularly aimed at you. My sincere apologies once again for any unintentional offensive words. AzhwAr emberumAnAr jeeyar thiruvadigaLE saraNam adiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan Thirumalai Vinjamoor Venkatesh
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