srImathE rAmAnujAya namaha Dear srI vishNu: I was not planning on getting into this interesting thread, but something you say below prompted me to post this (so, please forgive me if there is some repetition of ideas from earlier posts). Also, this is a rather important point that is well delineated in mumukshuppaDi. --- In ramanuja@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Vishnu" <vsmvishnu@xxxx> wrote: > Dear Sriman Venkatesan, > > I agree with Sriman Padmanabhan on this. > > The mUlam quoted by Smt Sheela also does not have any mention of > SEshatvam specifically. ............................. > Here it is important to note that all the objects mentioned are > non-sentient, indicating pAratantryam without any ahankAram. Thus > SEsha has complete SEshatvam. > > Then how do we interpret sUtra 92? Well, the mUlam does say it explicitly (starting with sutram No. 86 ) though you will need swAmy maNavALa mAmunikaL's vyAkhyAnam for No. 92 to understand it (aside: there can never be any ambiguity in the words of our pUrvAchAryas; such confusion is usually a manifestation of our inability to comprehend:-). Here is the vyAkhyAnam from Swamy vishada vAk shikAmaNi: thanakkEyAga enRathai upapAdikkirAr (this is tirumantra prakaraNam, and we are talking about the true meaning of namaha) - meaning, in the previous sutram (91), swAmy PL says Eeshwaran thanakkEyAyirukkum, achitthu piRarRkEyAyirukkum, Atma tanakkum piRakkum bothuvAyirukkumenRu muRpaTTaninaivu, agnyananRikkE ******tanakkEyAga enaikkoLLavENum engirathu namassAl***** (vyAkhyAnam - just the last part which is the essential message of this sUtram - 'swAtantramE swaroopamAna Eeswaran swArtha paranAy irukkum; chaitanyarahitamAkaiyAlE tanakkengaikku yOgyatai inRikkE pAratantra swaroopAmAyirukkum achitthu parArthamAy irukkum; chaturthiyil sonna sEshatvathaiyum, makArathil sonna gnyAtrutvathaiyumuDaiyanAna Atma, gnyAtrutva balathAlE swArthathaikkum, *sEshatva* balaththAlE parArthataikkum pothuvAyirukkumenRu namassukku poorva padathiRpiRantha prathipaththi; appaDianRikkE, (this is important) parArthathai EkavEshamAna achithuppOlE *thanakkEyAgavenaikkOLLumeethE* engirapaDiyE aththalaikkE rasamAmpaDi viniyOgam koLLa vENum enRapEkshikkiRathu innamassAlE engai) swAmy mamunikaL says that pArathanthryam is the true manifest expression for sEshatvam; If we understand our sEshatvam, then we exist as parathantras; parArthathai Eka vEshamAna achitthuppOlE - a desired manifestation of our sEshatvam finds its complete expression in 'achitvat pAratantryam' - paDIyAykkidandhu un pavaLa vAy kANbEne - meaning, pAratantryam (and His swaroopam as sEshi) supersedes a perceived conflict stemming from gnyAtrutvam - awareness. Now, let us look at No. 92: bhOga dashaiyil Eeswaran azhikkumpOthu nOkkavENum enRu azhiyAthozhigai (this is very subtle, so we need the vyAkhyAnam) periya jeeyar's vyAkhyAnam (just the relevant part): thannODE kalandu parimArum dashaiyil bhOktAvAna Eeswaran *ATkoLvAnoththennu yiruNDA mAyan* engirapaDiyE aDimaikkoLvAraippOlE pugundhu than vyAmOhaththAlE thAzh ninRu parimAri iththalaiyil sEshathvaththai azhikkumpOdhu 'nam sEshatvaththai nAm nOkka vENum' enRu naichchyam bhAvithirAyththu avan bhOgaththai azhiyAthozhigai yengai achitvat pAaratantryam when we internalize sEshatvam to the point that His enjoyment supersedes everything we are; in which case, ** avan bhOgaththai azhiyAthozhigai**, His enjoyment is supreme, and we should show pArathantryam that is quintessential sEshatvam, we will be His master in His servitude, for His enjoyment, not for one moment should we allow our naicchyam to leave our awareness. Clearly, it is very difficult to translate the magnificent phrasing of swAmy maNavALa mAmunikaL; but the idea is very clear, that pAratantryam is the true representation of sEshatvam. aDiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan, sridhar Note: I am sure that my translation is filled with errors and transgressions for which I ask for forgiveness from the learned bhAgavathas; the only way to understand these ideas is to learn from an Acharya (or through kAlakshEpams at the feet of erudite bhAgavathas such as srI ES BhoovarAhan Swamy or srI velukkudi krishnan swamy); the written english medium is grossly inadequate in communicating the subtlety of phrasing and profundity of ideas replete in the words of our poorvAchAryas. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/.itolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> azhwAr emberumAnAr jeeyAr thiruvadigalE saranam Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ramanuja/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ramanuja-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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