Dear Sri Vishnu, The apologies were for making you think that I did not want to continue the discussion :-). Now, looking at the chUrnai 92 in Mumukshuppadi - you are right. There is no explicit use of sEshatvam here. But it does talk of destroying something - 'azhikkum pOdhu'. If you check back, you see that chUrnai 89 states that nama: talks about the bhagavat and bhAgavata sEshatvam. As a continuation, the 92nd chUrnai talks about the destruction of this sEshatvam. Mamunigal's vyakhyanam does explicitly state that 'iththalaiyil sEshathvaththai azhikkum pOdhu'. One of the commenatries I have for Mumukshuppadi states that what is being destroyed is the nature of servitude ('adimai' - 'AtmAvidaththinil uLLa adimaiyai azhikkum pOdhu'). Mamunigal's vyakhyanam states that the soul should not profess naiccyam at this time thinking 'nam sEshathvaththai nAm nOkka vENum'. The commentary states this as 'nam adimaith thanmaiyai nAm kAththuk koLLa vENum'. In explaining chUrnai 93, Mamunigal also uses the phrase 'sEshatvamE AtmAvukku svarUpam'. Here it is used to answer the question whether a soul would do something to prevent His joy. The answer being that, it is the same sEshatvam which is the nature of the soul that also causes the soul to behave in this fashion. As you can see, these commenatries do explicitly state that sEshatvam is destroyed and that it is used in the sense of being a slave to the Lord. Interestingly, it is here that the vyAkhyAnams start using the word pAratantryam. PBA Swami states that the meaning of nama: is sEshatvam (in chUrnai 89), but that the highest meaning of nama: is pAratanryam ('parama tAtparyam') in chUrnai 94. Mamunigal states that chUrnai 94 celebrates the pAratantrya pratipatti. adiyEn madhurakavi dAsan --- Vishnu <vsmvishnu@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > --- In ramanuja@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, TCA Venkatesan > <vtca@xxxx> wrote: > > Dear Sri Vishnu, > > > > adiyEn's apologies.adiyEn's apologies. I did not mean > that we > >should not discuss the topic. What I meant was my > concern that we > >were using the word 'sEshatvam' a little differently > >in our posts - which I hope I clarified in my last > > post. > > >Such discussions are most useful for us - at least to > raise > >questions and thereafter seek the answers from qualified > scholars. > > Respected Swami, > > How will we discuss, if we keep apologizing, saying our > posts > are "blabberings" and frequently writing "forgive"? May > be > some "sAttvika ahankAram" is needed:) > > All of us, including self, use words like SEshatvam, > kainkaryam etc. > interchangeably. However, when it comes to SEshatvam vs > pAratantryam, > we need to go into what the terms originally mean. > > I referred to Manavala MamunigaL's commentary for > mumukshuppadi and > explanation of Sriman T.K.Gopaplacharya Swami. In that, > Sriman T.K. > swami defines what is SEshatvam. He says it is remaining > as bhOgyam > for PerumAL, like pushpam, chandanam etc. > > PirAtti's and other dEvIs' SEshatvam to PerumAL is > explained in SrI > guNa ratna kOSam of Bhattar in similar terms (bhOgyA > vAmapi > nAntarIyakatayA pushpAngarAgai: samam...) > > Dasanudasan > Vishnu > > > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/.itolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> azhwAr emberumAnAr jeeyAr thiruvadigalE saranam Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ramanuja/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ramanuja-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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