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Ramanuja List Archive: Message 00029 Sep 2004

 
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Dear Sri Vishnu,

The apologies were for making you think that I did not 
want to continue the discussion :-).

Now, looking at the chUrnai 92 in Mumukshuppadi - you 
are right. There is no explicit use of sEshatvam here.
But it does talk of destroying something - 'azhikkum 
pOdhu'. If you check back, you see that chUrnai 89 
states that nama: talks about the bhagavat and 
bhAgavata sEshatvam. As a continuation, the 92nd 
chUrnai talks about the destruction of this sEshatvam.
Mamunigal's vyakhyanam does explicitly state that
'iththalaiyil sEshathvaththai azhikkum pOdhu'.

One of the commenatries I have for Mumukshuppadi 
states that what is being destroyed is the nature of 
servitude ('adimai' - 'AtmAvidaththinil uLLa adimaiyai 
azhikkum pOdhu'). Mamunigal's vyakhyanam states that 
the soul should not profess naiccyam at this time 
thinking 'nam sEshathvaththai nAm nOkka vENum'. The 
commentary states this as 'nam adimaith thanmaiyai 
nAm kAththuk koLLa vENum'.

In explaining chUrnai 93, Mamunigal also uses the 
phrase 'sEshatvamE AtmAvukku svarUpam'. Here it is 
used to answer the question whether a soul would do 
something to prevent His joy. The answer being that, 
it is the same sEshatvam which is the nature of the 
soul that also causes the soul to behave in this 
fashion.

As you can see, these commenatries do explicitly state 
that sEshatvam is destroyed and that it is used in the 
sense of being a slave to the Lord.

Interestingly, it is here that the vyAkhyAnams start 
using the word pAratantryam. PBA Swami states that the 
meaning of nama: is sEshatvam (in chUrnai 89), but 
that the highest meaning of nama: is pAratanryam 
('parama tAtparyam') in chUrnai 94. Mamunigal states 
that chUrnai 94 celebrates the pAratantrya pratipatti.

adiyEn madhurakavi dAsan


--- Vishnu <vsmvishnu@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> --- In ramanuja@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, TCA Venkatesan
> <vtca@xxxx> wrote:
> > Dear Sri Vishnu,
> > 
> > adiyEn's apologies.adiyEn's apologies. I did not mean
> that we 
> >should not discuss the topic. What I meant was my
> concern that we
> >were using the word 'sEshatvam' a little differently
> >in our posts - which I hope I clarified in my last
> > post.
> 
> >Such discussions are most useful for us - at least to
> raise 
> >questions and thereafter seek the answers from qualified
> scholars.
> 
> Respected Swami,
> 
> How will we discuss, if we keep apologizing, saying our
> posts 
> are "blabberings" and frequently writing "forgive"? May
> be 
> some "sAttvika ahankAram" is needed:)
> 
> All of us, including self, use words like SEshatvam,
> kainkaryam etc. 
> interchangeably. However, when it comes to SEshatvam vs
> pAratantryam, 
> we need to go into what the terms originally mean.
> 
> I referred to Manavala MamunigaL's commentary for
> mumukshuppadi and 
> explanation of Sriman T.K.Gopaplacharya Swami. In that,
> Sriman T.K. 
> swami defines what is SEshatvam. He says it is remaining
> as bhOgyam 
> for PerumAL, like pushpam, chandanam etc. 
> 
> PirAtti's and other dEvIs' SEshatvam to PerumAL is
> explained in SrI 
> guNa ratna kOSam of Bhattar in similar terms (bhOgyA
> vAmapi 
> nAntarIyakatayA pushpAngarAgai: samam...)
> 
> Dasanudasan
> Vishnu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 



        
                
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