SRIMATHE RAMANUJAYA NAMAHA. Respected Sri Venkatesan and Sri Vishnu, Request your pardon for interfering in your scholarly discussion on seshatwam, pArathanthiryam, saatvika ahamkaaram etc. The following is the understanding to my little knowledge which may be full of flaws. I request the bhagavathas to pardon me and correct me. Let me first give two interpretations to understand the relationship (if any) between seshatwam and parathanthiryam. (1) It is said ?avanandri vor aNuvum asaiyaadu?. (nothing moves in this universe without His will). Supposing the aNu (this is only as an example and not to get into details of chit or achit) gets the potency to move on its own, it must refrain itself from doing it. If not, its ?parathanthiryam azhiyum? and ?swathanthiryam vandu, swaroopam azhiyum? (quotes are mine). The aNu starts thinking itself as swathanthran because it is able to move on its own. From verse 56 & 57 of Mumukshppadi it is deduced that if the aNu starts thinking itself as swathanthran, pArathanthiyam is lost, so also seshatwam. But seshatwam is something which should not be lost even in Bhoga dasai (92). If seshatwam is lost, bhoga dasai praapthi can not happen. This is because it is in bhoga dasai, Ishwaran gets into the process of destroying seshatwam of the aNu. Since that process is enjoyed by Ishwaran, the aNu is expected to show naichiam that it still is under seshatwam! It is therefore concluded that seshatwam is and continues to be the swarupam for the aNu, (even in bhogadasai). Since the aNu exhibits seshatwam, it is also a pArathanthiryan. (2) This is about a father and his son and let us imagine that the son resembles his father in all aspects. It is almost that he is identical to his father in all respects. Yet he can not be his father and this makes him secondary to his father (seshatwam), though he is capable of behaving like his father in each and every way. In his capacity of having been endowed with all the qualities of his father, can he seek a relationship (I request the bhagavathas to read this only as an example to understand the concept better) with his father?s wife, i.e., his own mother for procreation? He can not. He is not at liberty to do this and if he does, he loses his pArathanthiryam. This means he tries to usurp his father?s position and if he really does so, he will lose his swarupam. (stature as the son, in this case). When sage Vishwamithra started creating the universe for the sake of Thrishanku, (inspite of the injunction that creation is forbidden for the one who is in Brahmanhood), it is tantamount to taking up the role of Brahman (father in this case). If not in other aspects, it is in the matter of creation, the chetana, even after attaining Brahman-hood can not behave like a swathanthran. Seshatwam indicates that though he (chetana) is like Him, he is not Him as he is only secondary to Him. Parathanthiryam indicates that he can not behave like Him, though he is quite capable of behaving like Him because he in only subservient to Him. On two occasions in her life, Sita piratti came close to losing pArathanthiryam, one in Ashoka vanam and the other when left abandoned as a pregnant woman. Sri vachana bhooshanam treats the 2nd occasion as an exemplary example of pArathanthiryam. (naduvil pirindadu, parathanthirayatthai veLiyidugaikkaaga). On both the occasions she moots the idea of taking up swathanthiryam, (1) by destroying Ravana with her pathi viradaagni and (2) by terminating her life since she has been abandoned by her husband. She refrains from doing both because destroying of Ravana rests with Rama and she has not been commanded by Rama to destroy him. And in the latter case she has been commanded by Rama to live, not die upon abandonment. This latter occasion, not the former one in Ashoka vana has been extolled by Acharyas as the supreme act of pArathanthiryam, probably because she almost went to the extent of leaving out her praaNan in the former case (a case of shedding pAratahnthiryam) but for the timely interference of Hanuman. Seshatwam has been treated at 3 levels in general, anya seshatwam, bhagavatha seshatwam and ananyaarha seshatwam. Anya seshatwam must be given up at all costs (61) (marandum puram thozhaa maandhar). Bhagavatha seshatwam is superior to anya seshatwam (89) because of the break down of mama kaaram in bhagavatha seshatwam. (uttradum vunadu adiaarku adimai). Seshatwam to Peria piratti is not taken up here (90 &60) as that comes under a related discussion on akaara, ukaara, makaara thathwas. Ananyaarha seshatwam is what piratti did when she entered the Bhoomi claiming that she has NEVER been secondary to anyone other than Him. This shows that seshatwam is the permanent guna that the chetana must have. This idea is strengthened by the verse 92 that it is for His enjoyment that the chetana continues to feign seshatwam though it has been destroyed by Him in Bhoga dasai. The chetana clings to naichiam as though he is still in a state of seshatwam so that He would continue to enjoy. (Sarvam Narayana preethyartham). When this takes place he becomes a ?kruthakruthyan? (94) by realising that He has taken up his body for enjoyment and for doing whatever He likes to do. (thanakkEyaaga enai-k-koLLa vENum). The chetana in this state is not a swathanthran, nor even a pArathanthryan in the truest sense of the term because he can do whatever He wishes him to do. The qualifying difference is that this ?doing? is not as he has wished (which otherwise would destroy Parathanthiryam) but as He has wished. This is known as ?Parathanthirya ?prathipatthi? which is supposed to yield the chetana ?sakala-sUkhrutham?. He need not do yajyas, nor actions for praayaschittham etc, for none of them are going to be of any ?prayOjanam? to him. Whatever he does are done by Him for His pleasure. This is comparable to the state in which king Janaka was, as extolled by Gitacharyan. The ?kruthakruthyan? wields ?sama dhrushti? and nothing but enjoying the enjoyment of Him is filled in him. The 20 ?Ini? from Thiruvai mozhi(TVM), quoted by PBA Swamy as vyakhyanam for verse 230 of Acharya Hrudhayam describes the state of aarthi, which looks like the preceding state to bhoga dasai. Here is quoted 4 verses from the last 10 of 1000 (TVM) which, to my chittrarivu appears like azhwar clinging to seshatwam in the face of losing it by Bhagavan?s krupa. (1) ?emparam saadhikkaluttrEn, ennai-ip-pOra vittittAyE? (10-10-4) (2) ?enathenbadu en? YAn enbadu en?? (10-10-5) (3) ?manakkaaraamai manni uNdittaai, ini undozhiyaai? (10-10-6) (4) ?unnai-p-petru ini-p-pOkkuvanO?? (10-10-7). The comparison is as follows:- # Dilution of Seshatwa in Bhoga dasai by Him gives rise to pArathanthirya ?prathipatthi. # In bhoga dasai, seshatwam is destroyed (by Him). In Parathanthirya-prathipatthi, pArathanthiryam is not destroyed. Instead his paapam is destroyed and his ?balam? is increased. The chetana can do anything but only as a vehicle (deham) for Him. It is He who actually does ? something realised by the chetana. (Even though it is He who has done earlier and always, the dawning of such realisation in the chetana gives rise to Parathanthirya prathipatthi.) # The inference therefore is that pArathanthiryam is never to be lost. Bringing in the analogy of father and son, the son is like his father, because it is his father who has begotten him. If you say that he is his father, that means he has to begotten himself, which is not possible. This is where pArathanthiryam reaches its limits! (quote from Thiruchanda viruttham- yanum nee adandri en piraanum nee ramanE ?This can be said from the point of view of the chetana (son). The reverse can not be said by the father (God) about his son (chetana). It is always that He is the Piraan having swatahnthram. The chetana can never come to embody swathanthiryam.) Coming to the question of satvika-ahankaram, Ramanuja establishes in his Sribhashya to the 1st sutra of Badarayana that the self whose essential nature is knowledge can not be said to have ahankara by being the knower. ?Knowership which is of this aforesaid nature, belongs only to the self whose essential character is intelligence and consequently, this knowership can not possibly belong, at any time, to the non-intelligent principle of egoity (i.e., ahankara). Ramanuja draws input from Yamunacharya?s works to substantiate this proposition. The Lord says umpteen times that He knows everything, He is all Knowledge and He is superior to all. The verses expressed to this effect are many in Gita but do we call this as arising out of ahankara? The answer is no because it is in His nature to be all knowledgeable. So too with the self, reasons out Ramanuja. It is perhaps with this realisation minus ahankara and for the sake of posterity, he, with insightful sama dhrushti, allowed the making of 2 two idols in his image and even did the aalinganam to them to make them himself. It is perhaps for the same reason, he allowed Thiruvarangaththamudanaar to compose a Nootrandaathi in his name while he was alive. Similarly with Swami Desika in the verses under discussion. (I am unable to elaborate as I am not conversant with them. But it is clear that what holds for Bhagavath Ramanuja, holds good for Swami Desika too.) If we go to rural Karnataka or rural Andhra we still find people introducing themselves as so and so, the son of so and so. The identification is all the more important and necessary with maha purushas, as we are required to remember them and pass on their message to future generations. It is a kind of documentation, complete with all particulars about the honors and works they are associated with. Without such documentation, we may not have been in a position to pay obeisance to seers as we do during upakarma! Regards, Jayasree saranathan __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/.itolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> azhwAr emberumAnAr jeeyAr thiruvadigalE saranam Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ramanuja/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ramanuja-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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