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Respected devoutees :

This writer has been following the various exchanges over the past few days
and would like to add his two bit observations based in utter good faith
and on his limited knowledge.

The common thread in all these exchanges is the great devoution overflowing
with faith on our Beloved Empuraman.  Surely HE  must be thoroughly
enjoying and chuckling indulgently in compassion -  similar to a fond
parent watchig  the antics of a two year old toddler -  as HE is watching
us attempt to catch a glimpse of HIS glory.

As one reads Ms. Maya's first salvo, if one may be permitted to say so, her
goal seems clear.  Everything has a logic and rationale. Science is
definitely involved. While knowledge is limited, the fact that there is
something called logic, something called scientific is equally within the
ken of this limited knowledge. Its like not knowing of all the
words/vocabulary in the English language, but knowing just a handful of
words, say a 1000 words, but being  fully aware that there is something
called the dictionary which has ALL the words so long as one knows how to
refer to the dictionary and is able to look up a particular word when in
doubt.

By the same token of reasoning, if a temple has been constructed in such a
manner,with such and such material etc.two courses are open to a person. If
he is immersed in Bhakti, he will not question anything and will not look
at reason/rationality/science. There is no need for him.  For another, who
is keen to explore as a child, he exhibits enormous hunger for
knowledge,only Bhakti may not satisfy him.  He has to probe. Its his
'guna', his very nature.

Again,the latter category has two courses open : (a) he may keep on probing
without accepting anything until he reaches the end, if at all or (b) he
may stop at some point beyond which he will himself get worn out mentally
and come to accept the reasoning/rationality upto a point.

At one point we all agree, namely, insofar as the Vedas go they stretch
into infinity and cannot be fathomed in a single lifetime.  Which we can
easily see fits into (b) above where beyond a point, the person has to
perforce accept. Note: The enquiry itself is in the form of devotion and is
actively encouraged in the Upanisads where an eager Swataketu is gently led
into the path of free enquiry by his Guru Uddalaka by asking him to  bring
the
fruit of the Nyagrodha tree and look at the seed and further delve deeply
to find the Truth.....(Chandyoga Upanisaad  ix-1-4 and xi-vi)

This brings us back to point (a) where the person can keep on probing and
at some point the enquiry is bound to turn into (b) and stop.

In any case, in the end, Bhaki will sharpen his knowledge and this
sharpened knowledge will reinforce Bhakti manifold.

Against the above backdrop if we look at Ms.Maya's
'information-sharing-binge'. what do we find? Lets approach with an open
mind and not with emotions, sentiments etc.   What is she trying to say in
between the lines.  The richness, glory, great power/capacity and unlimited
nature of our beloved Sriman Naarayanan is getting diluted on occasions,
with/by certain people and over time the next generation may or may not be
able to appreciate these in its fullness.  Its a wakeup call as it is to
all of us to look at things from a different perspective. With our
collective intelligence, knowledge and total devotion to HIM, why not look
at preserving and lengthening the tradition, the ethos, the principles? for
our future generations to enrich?

Recently, there was a e-signature campaign of which we all may have surely
received the postings titled with bold

            "DEMOLISHMENT OF FAMOUS BALAJI TEMPLE AT TIRUMALA, INDIA Please
protest at              www.savetirumala.org by one
andy.srinivasan@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx"

Surely people are concerned at what is happening around, or what is giong
to happen in the near future. The best example one can immediately think of
is the Trikala Sandhya. Forgive this writer, but how many of us as
religiously doing this? This writer knows of hundreds who are from highly
orthodox background, who have had great and mightly forefathers/tradition,
who are successful in every field, well off, busy, have no want, donate
lavishly to temples/foundations/charity etc.who without fail make a point
to visit exclusively to Tirupati at least once a year, who do everything in
the name of the Lord, who pray, do the aradhana correctly do everything
except the Sandhya?
Can the same be said of our forefathers? Each of these so called 'old
fashioned' byegone era stalwarts have always been doing the Sandhya.  Not a
single one of us can deny this fact.  The 'elders' had what we call  in
today's parlance 'had their priorities right'.

In short: there is an urgent need today to not only confine oneself to
one's private practices and limited devotion but also with a sense of a
'missionary' zeal one must try to perhaps take a broad view and peep into
the future so that we can channelise all the beneficial energies given by
our beloved Lord into cementing and bonding HIS glory to one and all.  Lest
this writer be misconstrued, one would like to clarify that we are not
suggesting indulging in the 'conversion' ritual. This is a political
gimmick. As true believers in the compassion of the Lord who have
surrendered everything at HIS Lotus feet, why dither at this juncture into
doing that extra bit by enquiring deeply with the sole purpose of helping
all and ourselves.

No one has denied that the brain which has scientific knowledge also is
equally aware of its limitation and is seeking now to strengthen its feeble
affection for our beloved Sriman Naarayanan?

Before this writer concludes. Please. Some of you try to visit the famous
Mahabalipuram beach on the outskirts of Chennai and visit the Shri
Varahaswamy Temple where the Shri Lakshmi is seated on the right thigh.
This small temple is literally inside a cave among the rocks and clefts of
the beach.  Though the daily poojas take place, the temple is in quite a
bad shape. Visitors are rare and the government archeological department is
draggings its feet and there are some controvorsies. All these apart,  its
a wonder to just catch a glimpse of the Majestic Lord blessing with his
divine consort.  The structure seems to have been made of some wood. The
salty weather and HUMAN neglect have taken their toll.  In another 25 years
the sea will probably gobble up this temple

One wonders whether modern scientific knowledge can come to the rescue? Can
some of us do something?Not with money, but with our knowledge which has
already been tempered by our bhakti ?

One would like to end at this point. Errors if any  may be pardoned.

Om Tat Sat
Tat Tvam Asi



                                                                                
                           
                      Maya Iyengar                                              
                           
                      <maya_s1717@yaho         To:      sarathys@xxxxxxxxxxx, 
jayasartn@xxxxxxxxx,         
                      o.com>                   kdevanathan@xxxxxxxxxxx, 
mksudarshan2002@xxxxxxxxxxx,       
                                               Vijaya Raghavan 
<svrvan@xxxxxxxxx>,                         
                      07/23/04 02:47           s.ramachandran@xxxxxxxxxxxx, 
Sadagopan                      
                      PM                       <sgopan@xxxxxxxxxxxx>, 
ramachandran soundararajan           
                                               <maheesaran@xxxxxxxxxxx>, 
srirangasri@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx       
                                               cc:                              
                           
                                               Subject: Fwd: Moolavar           
                           
                                                                                
                           






Dear devotees,

I was shocked beyond belief to see the responses to the report quoted from
Indian express on moolavar and the complete black-out of the mail I sent as
a sequel to SriRangaSri. When I came to know that relevance has been
attached to the shila roopam, the materials used for abhishekam etc, I was
over-awed how every aspect in our tradition has evolved with such rich
meaning. With this thought when I look around it is that "Kaangindra
porulellam yaane ennum….". As I look into my Human physiology book, every
aspect tallies with the upanishad statement that this body of ours is the
shareeram for brahman and it is he who controls it as the sarathy. The
descent of 11 out of 12 cranial nerves upto heart (only) and the remaining
one coming to the stomach looks like Vishnu as Vaiswanara pervading the
body through the food he cooks in the stomach. Every system inside the body
as a part and the control by brain as a whole (I am leaving out details of
connectivity here because I am yet to come to grips with the fact that
people here do not want one to think) is an amazing aspect of Brahman
‘happening’ from macro to micro level. There is wonderful symmetry at all
levels of creation, only that the human brain limited by hypocrisy and
dogmas refuse to fall in line. It seems God has tough time dealing with us
only - to goad to make us see reason and realise him. When a writer
(writing on the moolavar) tells his little son that Thiruvaadi pporam was
the birth day of ‘Goddess’ and that her age is as old as that of earth, no
one would correct it. Because that would be apacharam (according to the
members of the group).. But that he lost a wonderful chance to tell his son
the story of Andal (who would have denounced any reference to herself as
goddess) and the easy way to explain the road to spirituality by means of
her story is not at all realised. Going by this kind of attitude, I very
well understand how and why our sacred knowledge of the past had undergone
so much mutilation over generations. For the bhktas of today, bhakti is a
means to get this or that result including moksham. But I don’t think our
texts ascribed to this view. They said if you expect some return for bhakti
from Perumal then it is tantamount to a wife expecting ‘kooli’ from her
husband for the happiness he had given her. On the other hand we find texts
telling us to meditate upon him through knowledge (which I find through
science and logic too) which in essence is bhakti which is para bhakti
leading to him. When you do upasana on him through vigyana, you see him as
vigyana mayan. Can any one challenge this? Then why this fear about
science?

I told my parents my fear and doubt whether it is impossible to find one
belonging to our fold who understands or is desirous of understanding god
through bhakti as well as knowledge from science. At least are there people
who realise that knowledge that leads to bhakti has been regarded by seers
like Ramanujacharya as a way of Brahmo-upasana, which Ramanujachrya
himeself followed? They said they too had not seen (so far) both to
co-exist. Perhaps it is Narayana alone who can understand me. So keep
chanting " Sriranganatha, mamanatha, namosthuthe", they said.

It is with much pain that I decide to come out of the group which in my
opinion has touched only the tip of the burg as far as promoting and
sustaining the essence of Vedic knowledge is concerned but can not help the
devotee to keep an open and fresh mind as to allow "all noble thoughts come
to them from all sides".

Regards,

Maya.


Note: forwarded message attached.


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Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 20:54:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: Maya Iyengar <maya_s1717@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Fwd: Moolavar
To: mksudarshan2002@xxxxxxxxxxx
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Note: forwarded message attached.


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Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 18:21:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: Maya Iyengar <maya_s1717@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Moolavar
To: kdevanathan@xxxxxxxxxxx, mksudharshan2002@xxxxxxxxxxx,
jayasartn@xxxxxxxxx, Vijaya Raghavan <svrvan@xxxxxxxxx>,
s.ramachandran@xxxxxxxxxxxx, Sadagopan <sgopan@xxxxxxxxxxxx>,
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Dear devotees,

I am really pained to see the response of a fellow devotee about pouring
sulphuric acid on the idols of Perumal. Not even a scientist or an atheist
(for the sake of an argument) would contemplate to say such a thing!

It is God who created us. It is said that God does ‘things’ through us. We
are His ‘karuvi’. It is God who created science too. Then is it right to
say that we can not use science as a means to know Him? Vedas are science.
Homas are science. Creation as explained in Upanishads is science.
Taittriya upanishad (II – 5) regards Him as Vigyana mayan. Shraddha and
Rhuthm (orderliness) are considered as the components to know Him as
Vigyana mayan. Is it then right to treat science as untouchable in knowing
about God?

This mail is not for justifying what I quoted in my previous mail on
moolavar. But I would like to point out that approaching religion through
science helps persons like me belonging to the younger generation cling to
our Faith with more conviction and devotion. I hope it is atleast for this
reason the moderator allows me pen down my opinions, which I assure, would
not deviate from the goal of this group.

Here is a glimpse of how science gets into our mind making us think of God
as Vigyana Mayan.

   It is said that He creates laws of Nature for the Universe but no rule
   of law bounds Him. I do find a ‘prathyaksha’ example when Lord Krishna
   lifted Govardhana Giri. How was He able to do it? Was it magic? Even
   magic has science at the backdrop! In all probability and with our
   limited knowledge, we can assume that He broke the law of gravity
   (probably bringing it to zero!) to lift it.
   He does reside in us as Antharyami. He resides in every soul and in
   everything. Then one may ask why one must go to temple. I think here
   also some science works. When we realize the Antharyami and consciously
   make efforts to mark His presence, at a certain point, Antharyami gains
   an upper hand and starts guiding us. In other words, at this ‘escape
   velocity’ does Antharyami start guiding us. Till then we have to keep
   trying to understand and not do anything to deter the realization of its
   presence- just like propelling a rocket against gravity till it reaches
   escape velocity. Further on, It will guide us (as auto-pilot?!) in Its
   orbit! Likewise there has to be a reasoning /reason for anything to
   happen. We suffer today for the sins committed in the past. So there is
   cause and effect – again we come back to science!
   The very names of gods must be having some vibration that generates some
   energy. E.g. – Valmiki, only after chanting ‘mara mara’ could become a
   reformed soul and attain the ‘thaguthi’ to write Ramayana. On the other
   hand I think the prefix like "Dhur" in the names of kaurava (like
   Dhuryodhana) which has negative meaning made them bad! It is said music
   can induce rains. Azhwars were able to see God by their songs. Though
   Bhakti is main component in such happenings we have heard of instances
   where songs have opened the doors. It seems that acoustics do have a
   place in devotion.

It is with this kind of logic I wish to look at the information on
moolavar.

The alkaline substances used in abhisheka hasten the process of oxidation.
The electrons so released in this process, when enter the devotee’s body,
displace oxygen from Hb to the tissues by Bohr’s effect. This effect will
be more pronounced in a temple like Thirumala where mountain air + the
electrons released will give ‘food for our cells’. This may be the reason
for some of the temples being situated on hilltops and abhisheka taking
place early in the morning. These effects might be higher in Marghzhi!

Another information I would like to say is during abhisheka or during
chanting and recitals, the crystal lattice of the granite might change due
to vibrations / chemical reactions that induce more conductivity and
release of electrons. The right ‘uchcharippu’ is necessary for that to
happen. That may be reason the slokas are chanted in a particular pitch and
particular speed with appropriate pauses. Remember a sound at a particular
frequency and acoustics can make a building fall! (as we see in Philips
advertisement!)

This line of reasoning gives some explanation for why wood is used in some
temples. The Perumal in Thiru Velliankudi is of wood and is brightly
painted. Until some years ago He looked as though made of granite because
people have given sandana kaappu etc to Him and done abhisheka unknowingly.
When people in that area started experiencing misfortunes, it came to be
known that the moolavar was not worshipped properly. Later with the
guidance of swamis like Sri Krishna Premi, the original idol was restored
and the misfortunes too stopped. (Sometimes some basic knowledge in this
are needed to be known to follow the rules better. Science fulfils the role
at times! ) The amazing aspect of this Perumal is that if a devotee
worships this Perumal, he will reap the benefits of having worshipped at
all the 108 divya desas. It makes me think that the extent of the divine
energy that resides in this moorthy can be borne only by wood having
specific energy lattice and not by granite or other materials. (The shakthi
of this temple is such that the Lord can cure the defects of the eyes.) It
is by this reasoning, may we conclude that the old idol at Kancheepuram (I
don’t know which temple, I have only heard of this incident) in granite
must have attained high energy of lattice as to produce counter effects due
to heating up with excess shakthi, that It was immersed under the temple
tank only to be taken out once in a few decades when the water is changed?

I know the fellow devotees will be seething with anger about how I say of
God simply in terms of science. I prefer to say like this.

‘All of must have visited dentists. To take an impression of your oral
details, the compound used for the purpose must be of a fluid of right
viscosity to record the details accurately. Any change in viscosity and
temperature can mar the details and in the end, the restoration you will
get will be a misfit and unaesthetic. So its only a free, fluid mind that
can record ideas and opinions and get an investment out of it and lay a
strong foundation for or restore Faith. Religion without science will make
it superstitious. But religion backed up by science is Vigyana Mayan.
"yetham vigyana mayamaathmaana upasamgramya" (The one who meditates on
Brahman as Vigyana reaches Him as vigyana mayan and then proceeds to reach
the Brahman at Ananda mayan level – Taittriya upanishad – 10-5 in chapter
III)

Before concluding let me pose three questions to those that oppose any
discussion or probe into the science of idols:

   The vigraha is a special abode of God in which He is consecrated with
   mantra /yantra rituals and relevant chanting etc. Do you think the
   physical body in which He comes to reside can be of any material? Don’t
   you think that some thought must have gone into (by Rishis or whomever
   have decided) the physical side too to help the devotee get benefits at
   all levels? Remember the saying, "Koil illa vooril kudi irukka vendaam"
   The physical laws that we know tell about the changes that happen to our
   body. Don’t you think that the laws which we do not yet know are many
   that it is possible that the divine energy inside the garbha gruha also
   enters our body or pervades our body and can give optimum benefits only
   when our body tissues work at peak level with more oxygen supply? If God
   as ‘Vaiswanara’, the Agni can ‘pervade the bodies of all beings with the
   aid of the five gaseous products (prana, apana, vyana, udhana & samana),
   cook and enter the food taken in’ (Gita V – 14), there is a possibility
   that a similar process is happening inside the temple through ‘Vayu’


   Don’t you think that thoughts like these do help us to think more of
   God, admire Him, adore Him and love Him, besides making us more
   responsible and conscious of the need to preserve this tradition and
   transfer it to next generation without bigotism and dogmas but with
   conviction, awareness, knowledge and above all devotion that is unshaken
   and unbroken and can not be threatened by any invasive thought, that you
   consider science as one?

Requesting for pardon in case I have trespassed the limits,

With regards,

Maya.



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