Via email chat
Tuesday, August 19, 2003
Interview by Marisa Brickman


I stumbled, almost literally, on Tussle one day at a Twisted Ones show in a junkyard next to Mighty Robot in Williamsburg, Brooklyn. Excited by the prospect of an outside show on a beautiful summer day four blocks from my apartment, I rounded up the troops for the occasion to hit the event en masse.


Of course the show was BYOB, so we thought thermoses of Sangria was just what the doctor ordered. Also on the line-up that day was the Broke Revue, Numbers and Rogers Sisters. As the afternoon wore on, the breeze started flowing. We got drunker and more daring (climbing roofs and partying next door with the Dominicans in the bodega), and by the time the sun started going down it was the perfect setting for my Tussle inauguration.


Our crew which included the NV girls, Bike Posse, little Colin (my 13-year-old zine-making, skateboarding prodigy rolling with us to his first rock show EVER!), the junkyard roosters, the Dominicans next door and the hipsters who were out in full force all came together in peace and harmony to share the Tussle jam.


San-Francisco-based quartet Tussle plays bass-heavy, instrumental, hypnotic groove rock that has hints of techno, dub, hip-hop and reggae. By creating their songs from improvised jams, Tussle makes a new sort of dance music for the person that is hip, but neither hippie nor hipster (although you know we all have a little bit of both in us). In addition to the regular drum set-up, Tussle has a second kit made of found plastic and metal objects including the staple plastic bucket.


Having played in a bevy of alternative spaces (i.e. multiple basements, SOMA, Deitch Projects and other small galleries), Tussle seemed right at home in the junkyard turned ghetto bandshell. I had never heard Tussle before and I was so moved by the grooves that day that I made a point to catch up with one of the band members. I’d been dancing and drinking Sangria all day long and didn’t hold anything back when I accosted Alexis Georgopoulos (drums, melodica) to tell him how great I thought his band was. Colin had a great time too, so we wanted to thank him for making his first show experience a good one. Smiling politely Alexis handed over a copy of their latest 12-inch single “Eye Contact”(Troubleman) which features cover art by Chris Johansen – hot! The record captures a more electronic and ambient Tussle sound than what I heard live. With just a maxi-single and a track on Frisco Styles (Deitch Projects), we’ve yet to see what these guys are capable of, but their slowly growing army of fans is anxiously awaiting the next release.


Look for their CD/EP Don’t Stop (Troubleman) this October featuring remixes from Matmos (Soft Pink Truth), Barry 7 of Add N to (X) and Stuart Argabright (Death Comet Crew). Tussle plans to tour with their San Francisco pals Erase Errata in Europe later this year.

At the last minute, I tracked down Alexis via email and he rallied the rest of the crew to answer some of my pressing questions in the nick of time. Andy Cabic (bass), Nathan Burazer (sampler, drum machine, Casio, effects) and Jonathan Holland (custom drum set, bells, plastic buckets, metal, found objects) proved to be a witty crew of rockers.

Is the Mission District the hip area of San Fran? Like the Williamsburg of the West or the Silverlake of the North? What makes it special/different?
Alexis: Hmmm, yeah. It is often compared to those places. Mostly I think because a lot of arty kids live in each of them. But I think the Mission’s a bit more working class than either Silverlake or Williamsburg. But I think the particular mixture of kids and families and down and out people and cultural influences make it its own place.
Nathan: Yes, the Mission is the hip area of San Francisco, since we got rid of the yuppies after the fall of the dot-commers. It’s a very casual area. The Mission is probably gnarlier than those places. We have a lot of homelessness. We’ve had a homeless man living in front of our house since we moved in five years ago.
Jonathan: The mission is dirty, cheap, smelly, loving, hateful, colorful, noisy, ugly and beautiful. At its best: Dolores Park at sunset, or free shows at the BART station on 16th and Mission, or art openings at Adobe. At its worst: walking home to find a crack-head writhing on the piss-drenched sidewalk in front of your house, or walking up on someone shitting on your front porch.


East Coast vs. West Coast? Why?
Andy: It’s just players and haters getting confused.
Jonathan: Exactly, why? To quote Rakim, “It ain’t where yer from, its where yer at.” For real doe, I think we’re more into building bridges than walls. I mean, we all came to SF from the east.


I think of burritos when I think of San Fran – where’s the best burrito place? Brunch place?
Andy: Dangerous question. For many, eating burritos is a sport, so saying which aquaria you think is best is akin to picking a favorite team, and really, they’re all pretty fucking good. Lately I’ve been into tacos, particularly the red snapper ones at Pancho Villa. They have radishes there as well which is always a plus. But Baja Taqueria right around the corner from our house is wonderful as well.
Jonathan: Yes, yes. This is a very sensitive topic for many, but I’ll have to say that Baja is my favorite because of convenience, and it’s a bit below the radar. And, I guess I don’t do brunch.
Nathan: I lost interest in burritos about one year ago. Now I eat taco salads, which is the same thing as a burrito, but in a taco shell. Taco salads are not as heavy as burritos. Have you every gone into “Burrito Coma?” It’s that bloated heavy feeling after eating a big Mission burrito too quickly. Boogaloos for brunch if there is no line.


What is your favorite thing to do in San Fran, aside from play music?

Andy: Drop by the Adobe Bookshop and find out how everybody’s doing.
Alexis: Yeah, and maybe have a drink at Uptown or Doc’s Clock.
Nathan: Cycling, I love going to Baker Beach or exploring areas I have never gone to before. I also make animations or collages on a daily basis and I like drinking tea.
Jonathan: Cycling, building stuff and painting – I’m surprised Andy didn’t say record shopping!


What about where you live makes it conducive to playing music?

Andy: The right amount of activity – just enough to do, hear, see, but not feel overwhelmed. Taking your question literally, three-fourths of Tussle lives in our apartment and we practice in the basement.
Nathan: Our neighbors are younger and they don’t mind the racket. It helps that kids here are very supportive of each other artistically.
Alexis: In the past couple of years, there has just been an incredibly enthusiastic, supportive scene. On any given night, bands will play. And friends will always give shit a listen. People want to be moved and to have a good time so there is a willingness to check things out and support friends trying new things.


How have these things affected, shaped the current music scene – The hippie roots? The Art Institute? Rave culture/electronic music?
Andy: That’s a lot of question. Each on their own have fine qualities, all intertwined together would be unfortunate.
Nathan: They say that SF attracts pioneering minds. The electronic music coming from here is fairly pioneering, like Matmos, Kit Clayton, Kid 606, etc. I am sure somehow the old hippies, the beats of the 1960s, have left their mark somewhere on the current music scene, but maybe it’s the DIY philosophy to making stuff happen.


What other bands do you consider your brethren and your homies?
Alexis: Coachwhips, Troll, Numbers, Erase Errata, Matmos, Deerhoof, Devendra Banhart, Aislers Set –
Nathan: Yeah, all those plus Rebar, Tekromantik & Hello Noisy, A Tension.


Do you guys all like to dance or do you just make music that people can dance to?

Alexis: If there’s some Egyptian Lover on the tables, we’ll be on the floor.
Andy: I love to watch Jonathan dance. I believe the last time we all danced together was after we played the Knitting Factory in July, to a set by the Crazy Rhythms Crew. That was a lot of fun.
Jonathan (blushing): Fuck yeah, I’ll throw down. I used to be a wallflower, like so many others, but once I got my dancin’ shoes – look out Dancin’ Outlaw! But I hate when you feel like you HAVE to dance, like, when bands will get all militant if you’re not dancing to their shit. Sometimes you’re just not feeling it: it’s a sausage-fest, the grooves are wack, or some EMF wanna-be is yelling DANCE! orders at you. But on the flip, it does suck to be feelin’ all irie, wanting to get down, and standing all around you are people thinking, “Oh, uh, I can’t dance.” I call bullshit on you. Yes you CAN!!! But like I said, I can understand why some folks wouldn’t be feelin it. For whatever reason.


You’ve performed live in a lot of art gallery sort of spaces and alternative venues (like the junkyard, yes!). What setting is best for Tussle and Tussle’s music?
Alexis: House parties seem to be a favorite. People are just much less self-conscious in that context than at clubs. And the party always seems to last much longer.
Jonathan: I think we are at our best in more intimate spaces, preferably something more underground like, basements. It fits our sound better than, say, rock clubs.
Nathan: Art spaces are fun, dirty and dark. Stinking clubs get old after awhile. I think we all really enjoyed playing at the San Francisco Museum of Modern Art, and making a loud racket. It’s usually so quiet and dull in there.

Were any of you guys former hippies?
Alexis: Depends on what that means. If you mean, “Did any of you get stoned and grow your hair out and listen to psychedelic music?” Then I guess, yeah. I have been known on occasion — perhaps to the chagrin of my bandmates — to still occasionally listen to early Grateful Dead and Moby Grape records and get nostalgic about taking acid in high school. But do I attend the Horde Tour? Absolutely no fucking way! Is that shit still going?
Andy: I have never had a string cheese incident, and I don’t know what that is. I would say, Anthem of the Sun is my favorite Dead album, though I also enjoy Old and In the Way, but I don’t think that counts.
Alexis: Yeah, it does.


How do you feel about the term jam band and what does that make you think of?

Jonathan: Everything that’s bad about cocaine.
Alexis: It makes me a bit nauseous. It makes me think of the Incredible String Cheese Incident or whatever. I mean, the scene surrounding that stuff colors it in a very specific way. But everyone has different distinctions when it comes to this stuff. For me, there are really distinct lines that separate contemporary jam bands from stuff like Can and Faust or even something like LaMonte Young. And I think it has something to do with restraint. Bands where everyone’s shredding at the same time just drive me insane. But when bands play an extended form of intuitive, spontaneous minimalism, I love it.
Andy: Jam band is bad news. Me run go the other way.
Nathan: The term jam band makes me sleepy. The term jug band gets me excited.


What’s a better name to describe the slew of bands who have found their “inner hippie” and are letting loose, jamming with lots of instruments, making music kids can freak out to, but who are also intelligent and artsy?

Alexis: Ummm, do you mean people like the Animal Collective or Black Dice or Boredoms? I feel like there’ve been bands that have been “jamming” and being arty for a long time. Sonic Youth comes to mind. But I mean, The Slits were kinda hippies too. There have been a lot who’ve walked the tightrope.


How do you feel about costumes/uniforms for live performances? What is the Tussle uniform?
Alexis: Lots of our friends are rocking the uniforms these days: Numbers, Erase Errata, Pink & Brown (RIP). I don’t know if we will ever rock a uniform as such. Our friend Devendra Banhart and Alissa, Andy’s girlfriend, once dressed up in these weird chicken costumes and danced with us onstage. That was pretty fun. But onstage, at least these days, we tend to dress as we do in our everyday lives. Which is to say, some pants, some shoes, a shirt. Pretty crazy, huh? Though we have been trying to talk Jonathan into playing shirtless a la Def Leppard!


How do you guys incorporate improvisation into what you do?

Andy: Improvisation Inc.
Alexis: Um, yeah. We don’t really incorporate it, but our songs are constructed from improvisations.
Nathan: Improvisation is a starting point. Like a sketch, sometimes a sketch needs refinement, sometimes it works as a finished drawing and sometimes it’s better to let it go. You may not know the difference with us.

What is the role of visual art in Tussle? I like the animation on the website and LOVE the album cover artwork – Chris Johansen eh?
Alexis: I think we all sort of think of sound in abstract, visual terms and we want our sleeve art to correspond to that.
Nathan: Yeah, CJ’s painting worked really well for the cover. I am a visual artist more than I am a musician. The animations on the website are my own experiments, and they will continue. I am glad you like them. Someday it might be cool to project them at shows.
Jonathan: Well, I’d always considered myself a visual artist first and foremost, until Tussle happened. But visual art is still probably my main preoccupation.


What’s the deal with recording with one microphone? Do you guys always do that?
Alexis: You must be referring to the website. Yeah, it’s not a credo or anything. It’s really born of necessity. We just record all our rehearsals with a minidisc player and one microphone and put some recent song sketches on the site (tussle.org). But I mean, if we had a full studio at our disposal, we would use as many microphones as we could!

What’s the Tussle secret weapon?
Jonathan: It wouldn’t be a secret anymore if we told you!
Nathan: Weapon? You’re trippin’, it’s all about the love.
Alexis: Oh no! We are hippies!


What’s your theory behind releasing CD singles and 12-inches? How did you decide who you wanted to remix your stuff?

Alexis: Well, the unofficial way things are usually done is that bands release albums. And electronic artists release 12-inches. We like to blur things and thought it’d be cool to try to get our stuff to DJs. I also like the limited edition quality of singles and think it’s an interesting way for a band to stir interest before they’re ready to put an entire album together.


I hear Trevor Jackson and Prefuse are fans. How did you find that out and any plans to work with them?
Alexis: Trevor was given a white label of our first single from someone at Rough Trade London who thought he would like it. Then he wrote to us and told us he was sorry he slept on the demo we’d sent him months earlier! In terms of Scott Herren (Prefuse 73), I interviewed him for a magazine and we got to talking and got along really well. I told him I wanted to send him some of our stuff. And after he got it, he wrote us really enthusiastically saying he and his roommate in Barcelona were waking up and dancing to it every morning! There is some talk of doing a collaboration of some sort but it’s very much in the works.


Do people always dance at your shows?
Alexis: Some body rocking definitely happens.
Andy: They do that dance where you cross your arms and nod your head. That’s very popular, helps them keep their center of balance.
Nathan: Usually at least people will bob their head up and down – at the least. It really fuels the music when people dance at shows. It’s the best way to communicate with us while we are playing.


What city do people dance the most in? The least in?

Andy: Prince told us Erotic City was a cool place for dancing, but we haven’t gone there yet. Well, Nathan has.
Alexis: Do people ever dance in Boston? That is the least fun place I’ve ever played.
Jonathan: Yeah, Boston, getcho shit togethah...
Nathan: Why do you think they call it San FranDISCO?

Where do people seem to “get it” the most?
Andy: Groin, Rectum.

Who does Tussle make music for?
Alexis: For the people.
Andy: For the kids...of the people

What are you doing tonight?
Alexis: Our friend Simon Evans has an art opening at Jack Hanley Gallery and he asked us to play.
Andy: I went to an art show at a friend’s apartment. I skipped out on seeing M.Ward at Du Nord, now I’m listening to Bitch Magnet in my room instead.

What is most exciting about the upcoming tour with Erase Errata?
Alexis: That we get to hang out with the EE ladeez and get to see them rock it every night.
Andy: I haven’t traveled outside the states in twelve years and I’m looking forward to some distance.