From juliorivas at gmail.com Mon Jan 3 19:58:34 2005 From: juliorivas at gmail.com (J Rivas-Pita) Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 20:58:34 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] Are Psychics Psychic? What Percy Couldn't Include in "Lost in the Cosmos" Message-ID: Dear friends, You might like this TIME story: http://www.time.com/time/columnist/jaroff/article/0,9565,1012261,00.html All best wishes, Julio -- Be Happy! (Fr. Benito Ballesteros, OSB, 1924-1996) S? feliz! (P. Benito Ballesteros, OSB, 1924-1996) From juliorivas at gmail.com Thu Jan 13 05:59:48 2005 From: juliorivas at gmail.com (J Rivas-Pita) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 06:59:48 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] Fwd: Can You Prove You're Not a Machine? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: J Rivas-Pita Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 06:58:17 -0400 Subject: Can You Prove You're Not a Machine? To: buddhistpsychotherapy at yahoogroups.com, mindfulnesstherapies at yahoogroups.com, J R , Pablo , Jaime Nubiola , "chaslow53 at aol.com" , "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" , Kenneth Ketner , David O'Hara , Frances Catherine Kelly , kirstima at saunalahti.fi =========== V O I C E S =========== Can You Prove You're Not a Machine? By: Tova Bernbaum ----------------------------------- Recently, I was browsing the news stories on the CNN website when I was struck by a particular headline in the technology section. It asked a simple question: "Can You Prove You're Not a Machine?" The words caught my attention because I had been asking myself the very same thing, and I wasn't really sure I could answer in the affirmative. In the old days, it seemed like we were always asked the opposite question. In high school, the biology assignment was to prove that a car is not a living organism, or to examine a manila envelope containing a mystery object and ascertain by the weight and movement whether the contents were inanimate or not. But modern life has turned the question inward: are we really alive? Are human beings that different from the technology that serves them? Do we bring anything meaningful to the lives we lead, or are our physical and material needs forcing us into daily routines that feel more and more mechanical? We can be forgiven for wondering from time to time. The rat race can often make life feel remote and monotonous. Society puts a lot of pressure on the average man or woman to earn a good living, to obtain that picturesque house in the suburbs, to acquire all kinds of material possessions -- in short, to live up to the American Dream. These are not unworthy goals, per se, but the tireless quest to achieve them can create a void in spirituality, and that void can quickly turn the quest into a robotic chore. Of course, like all good consumerist societies, we have various answers to modern man's existential crises: self-help books, weekend retreats, enlightenment seminars. One day, when I was feeling down about the humdrum monotony of my daily life, I decided to seek out one of the latest therapeutic tools: the meditation room. I found one tucked away in Soho, in a quiet building designed to give students or office workers a brief respite of calm reflection in the midst of chaotic city life. The windowless room smelled of incense and had no chairs, so I sat down on one of the floor pillows and prepared to unburden myself of earthly concerns. I was going to drink in the elixir of enlightenment, to taste the freedom of a mind unfettered by daily worry. But the moment I closed my eyes, I suddenly felt extremely claustrophobic. It wasn't just the lack of air circulating, or the fact that the room's only other occupant seemed more sinister than serene. It was the very idea of a meditation room that really unnerved me. Confining spirituality to a single airless room just seemed so suffocating. And then I realized that perhaps that had been my problem all along. Maybe that's the problem a lot of us have. We feel like machines because on some level we function like them. We compartmentalize the different aspects of our lives and think that they can each work separately from one another. The office is where we act as our professional, task-driven, and often more boring selves. After hours, we get to feel like our "real selves" by having fun and engaging in meaningful relationships. G-d, or meaning, or spirituality -- or whatever we call it -- is something we do on the weekends or on our lunch break, if there's enough time. Our lives are not necessarily unfulfilled, but they are disconnected, because there's no unifying meaning bringing all the pieces together. But it doesn't have to be that way. If we could only realize that there's holiness in all aspects of our day, then maybe we would feel less like machines and more like the human beings that we are. We don't need meditation rooms to feel spiritual; there's meaning in the seat we give up for a stranger on the subway, in the dollar we drop in a homeless man's coffee cup, in the conversations we have with coworkers, in the silent moments we share with the people we love, in the poetry written on the sidewalk, in the shadows the streetlights cast on our bedroom walls at night. If G-dliness exists in the little things, then all we really need is a bit of string to tie them together. - Tova Bernbaum is a freelance writer living in the Crown Heights section of Brooklyn, New York. (To view this article on the Web or to post a comment, please click here: http://chabad.org/article.asp?aid=247980) -- Be Happy! (Fr. Benito Ballesteros, OSB, 1924-1996) S? feliz! (P. Benito Ballesteros, OSB, 1924-1996) -- Be Happy! (Fr. Benito Ballesteros, OSB, 1924-1996) S? feliz! (P. Benito Ballesteros, OSB, 1924-1996) From wriddick at usa.net Thu Jan 13 09:35:52 2005 From: wriddick at usa.net (Wade Riddick) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 08:35:52 -0600 Subject: [percy-l] Artie Shaw's "The Artist in the Materialist Age" Message-ID: Can anybody point me to a print copy of Artie Shaw's lecture on "The Artist in the Materialist Age?" I read his obit last week and he sounds like he was quite a character. His brief take on art and celebrity in the article reminded me of reading Baudelaire and Benjamin years ago. From juliorivas at gmail.com Thu Jan 13 13:06:05 2005 From: juliorivas at gmail.com (J Rivas-Pita) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 14:06:05 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] Fwd: [peirce-l] Re: Mills on Percy on Peirce In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Peter Skagestad Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 12:42:47 -0500 Subject: [peirce-l] Re: Mills on Percy on Peirce To: Peirce Discussion Forum Bill, Frances, and all, Having now read Henry Mills' essay on Percy, I find it a faithful presentation of Percy's thought, as I remember it from "The Message in the Bottle". I was surprised, however, to find no references to Peirce in Mills' essay. To the best of my recollection Percy repeatedly - and, fairly clearly, erroneously - equated his sign-object-mind triad with Peirce's sign-object-interpretant triad. Following Deledalle, I myself see the explication of mind as an important function of Peirce's semiotic triad, and for that purpose it is, of course, essential not to make use of the concept of mind, directly or indirectly, as one of the terms of the triad. By contrast, Percy's principal objective is not to explicate the mind, but rather to show that the phenomenon of language cannot be made sense of without presupposing a conscious mind, a mind which, as a next step, might be equated with the soul of Christian theology. I do not, however, have a copy of "The Message in the Bottle" ready to hand, and so cannot at the moment cite chapter and verse. For those interested in exploring the relationship between Percy and Peirce in depth, I can think of no better source than Patrick Samway, ed., "A Thief of Peirce: The Letters of Kenneth Laine Ketner and Walker Percy", University of Mississippi Press, 1995. The letters contain some exceptionally candid and at times emotional discussions of such thorny issues as the nature of the interpretant, a concept Percy proved reluctant to embrace. Ketner has shown an exemplary generosity in allowing the letters to be published, thus providing a veritable treasure trove for those interested in probing the depths of Walker Percy's mind. Cheers, Peter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frances Catherine Kelly" Date: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 11:40 am Subject: [peirce-l] Re: Mills on Percy on Peirce > Frances to Bill Bailey... > > In regard to the essay by Henry Mills on Walker Percy and his use of > Charles Peirce we seem to be in agreement, but in not being familiar > with Percy myself it is hard for me to say whether Mills represents > Percy well or more important even if Percy represents Peirce well. > Based on my quick reading of the essay, my first reaction of the > latter point is to conclude that Peirce is not represented well by > Percy, but that Percy may represent some aspects of psychotherapy > well. It is so that Percy has been presented by some listers as being > a useful illustrator and illuminator and interpreter of Peirce yet the > essay by Mills does in my opinion clearly shows that the ideas of > Percy are not consistent with those of Peirce and indeed the two > stances likely are in general incongruent. Percy may claim to be > Peircean, but only on the thin surface. The notions of emergence and > transcendence are obviously present in both Percy and Peirce to a > degree, but the reasons for them claiming so are vastly different, and > perhaps should not be linked or shared at least for purposes of > theory, although they may both have "technical" contributions to make > in the clinical practice of psychotherapy. > > The essay "Walker Percy's Philosophy of Language" by Henry Mills was > posted and archived recently to the list in two messages by a new > lister Julio Rivas-Pita who has reportedly now retreated from the list > for personal reasons, but who might be reached via other means. > > Here are some of my immediate reactions to some statements made in the > essay for what they may be worth, but correction is invited, because > it is only a view of Percy through a reading of Mills. My items are > numbered in order as they occurred in the text of the essay. > > 01. Percy writes about the philosophy of language, and not about > semiotics or linguistics nor semeiotic or logic, but he attempts to > place language signs within the field and study of psychotherapy as > part of dialogic discourse between the participants in a clinical > setting or sitting or session. > 02. Within the inner subjective cosmos of the individuals involved or > engaged in therapy, the semiosic tern is listed by Percy as user and > sign and object, which ordering is inconsistent with that in Peircean > synechastics and categorics and semiotics. In Peircean synechosis the > ordering is object and sign and user, but in subsequent semiosis the > ordering is sign and object and user. In either event, the user is > always determined, but is never the determiner of the sign or object. > 03. The user for Percy is a synonym for only the human interpreter, > when in Peirce it is at least the object itself, or at rest the > interpretant effect sign, or at most the interpreter who furthermore > may be any mechanism of matter or organism of life. > 04. The term "symbol" is used incorrectly by Percy as a synonym for > the genus term "sign" which is a mistake that is also often made by > other theorists and found in their writings, such as early Langer for > example. For Peirce the sign is a genus class under which falls the > species of icons and indexes and symbols. The further Peircean > breakdown of symbols into degenerative abstractors and singulors and > genuines however is not pursued by Percy, at least not explicitly. > 05. Humans are held by Percy to be "symbol mongering organisms" which > term reminds me of humans being called "time binders" in Cassirer via > their use of symbolic signs, but it is not clear to me whether Percy > assigns the use of signs or symbols only to normal humans. > 06. Consciousness does factor in Percy as being necessary for the > inner or private use of symbols, but in Peirce consciousness is pure > feeling alone, and is deemed to be independent of and irrelevant to > semiosis generally and to obstinate reason or logic; yet for Peirce > the living conscious mind is never completely devoid of signs or > reason or logic, even though it does not necessarily need them to > exist nor to be in or as an organism or human being. > 07. For Percy the inner use of language is the means that makes > conscious meaning, which yields a human mind. This inner subjective > state is bracketed by the outer poles of brute nonhuman animals and > their signs on the one hand, and by the objective community of > symbolic and linguistic name makers on the other. For Peirce this > wrongly denies to humanity their physiotic and biotic roots on the one > hand, and their familial and social roots on the other. Peircean > humans are different in degree from nonhuman organisms or inhuman > suprematisms, but humans are not different in kind. > 08. Intention is held by Percy to be necessary for both user and > object in all and any of semiosis, but this for Peirce is a fallacy. > The meaning of signs and of life for Percy is an intended assertion > made with language symbols that constitutes a subjective mental state > and a mysterious psychical being. For Peirce this sort of belief lacks > objectivity and community. > 09. Percy holds that words and minds "have" meaning as an entity that > is separate from the sign and object and user which exists externally > in some objective ontic realm, rather than the sign or word being > enabled or empowered formally to "stir" or "incite" or "evoke" the > meaning of an object within the mind of the user. To further say as > Percy does that a meant object "is" something would be to wrongly > assign the meaning of the object to a state outside semiosis. > Percy is > thus not a nominalist, which seems contradictory to his main stance, > but he is also not a realist of which Peirce is. For Peirce the > meaning meant is found as a relation where the sign and object are > combined together laying in a ground of conformity that is controlled > by the user via a law, which law or user may be the interpretant > effect or the interpreting phanerism. The issue of meaning in Peirce > is partially clear to me, but in Percy it is hazy. > 10. The individual human person is held by Percy to be a whole total > world that exists independent and transcendent of all others. This for > Peirce would likely boarder on supernatural mythical theism or > extraterrestrial mystical spiritism, and would be placed outside the > concerns the sciences, but not fully outside the concerns of signs. > 11. Language in which the sign and object are fused is held by Percy > to be the magical bridge that subjectively links the single person > together with their own self or intimately links the individual self > with another individual self somewhat epiphenomenally. This hence > is a > tetradic structure of sign and object with the self and the other, > rather than a triadic structure that Peirce would insist on. It is a > kind of communication model, but the common repertory of shared signs > and any inferred meaning would lay outside this psychologistic world, > which phenomenology seemingly contradicts the Percy stance. > 12. Under Peircean semiotics, signs have the purpose to make the > general ideal seem real to sense in mind. Phenomenal semiosis is thus > essential for realizing any ontic metaphysical realm, but Percy would > place all this within the sole mind of the human alone. > 13. The key to Peircean semiosis and science is determination, but > only in a ground and thus as a limit, while for Percy such > determination is wrongly held to be found in origins and causes. > 14. The definition by Percy of science as a process to know nature is > too limited and radical for Peirce. Indeed, general philosophy is > deemed by Peirce to be coenoscopy, which is a formal science and that > prepares for and precedes the natural sciences and contributes to the > social sciences. The formal science of general philosophy is > furthermore speculative and tentative in its special findings. > 15. Peirce would likely agree that deductive inferences or judgements > and empirical instruments or experiments are not the only methods > available to thinkers nor the best means to test samples, while Percy > would and thereby limit science needlessly. > 16. Percy in adopting a quasi theistic metaphysics wrongly > disposes of > phenomenal factuality and existential reality, but to what useful end > is a mystery to me. > > > > --- > Message from peirce-l forum to subscriber Peter_Skagestad at uml.edu > > > > > > WS1 - FO: This message has been scanned for viruses and malicious > code by the UMass Lowell anti-virus scanners. > --- Message from peirce-l forum to subscriber juliorivas at gmail.com -- Be Happy! (Fr. Benito Ballesteros, OSB, 1924-1996) S? feliz! (P. Benito Ballesteros, OSB, 1924-1996) From Nikkibar at aol.com Wed Jan 19 00:23:48 2005 From: Nikkibar at aol.com (Nikkibar at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 00:23:48 EST Subject: [percy-l] Artie Shaw's "The Artist in the Materialist Age" Message-ID: <15c.481b61b9.2f1f48e4@aol.com> Dear list, for anyone in the New Orleans area: There will be a lecture presented at that Baprist Church at the corner of St. Charles Ave and Broadway in New Orleans on Friday at 7 p.m. and the following morning at 9 on the Moviegoer by Ralph Wood from Baylor. I haven't heard Dr. Wood but i understand he is excellent. It would probably give Walker a boost to know that he is making inroads among the Baptists. Any takers? Nikki Barranger -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tfa at brickengraver.com Wed Jan 19 01:49:11 2005 From: tfa at brickengraver.com (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 01:49:11 -0500 Subject: [percy-l] Artie Shaw's "The Artist in the Materialist Age" In-Reply-To: <15c.481b61b9.2f1f48e4@aol.com> Message-ID: <20050119064857.TKFU7559.imta02a2.registeredsite.com@compaqupstairs> wish I could Tommy Armstrong "Science is extraordinarily stupid about people as people and the consequence of this stupidity is going to do us all in if we don't do something about it" Walker Percy _____ From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Nikkibar at aol.com Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 12:24 AM To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org Subject: Re: [percy-l] Artie Shaw's "The Artist in the Materialist Age" Dear list, for anyone in the New Orleans area: There will be a lecture presented at that Baprist Church at the corner of St. Charles Ave and Broadway in New Orleans on Friday at 7 p.m. and the following morning at 9 on the Moviegoer by Ralph Wood from Baylor. I haven't heard Dr. Wood but i understand he is excellent. It would probably give Walker a boost to know that he is making inroads among the Baptists. Any takers? Nikki Barranger -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JHForest at cs.com Wed Jan 19 04:24:51 2005 From: JHForest at cs.com (JHForest at cs.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 04:24:51 EST Subject: [percy-l] citation request (plus a book recommendation) Message-ID: In a message dated 1/19/2005 7:49:19 AM W. Europe Standard Time, tfa at brickengraver.com writes: > "Science is extraordinarily stupid about people as people and the > consequence of this stupidity is going to do us all in if we don't do something about > it" > Walker Percy Could someone post the citation for the above quote? It's very timely. Along these lines, let me mention that there's a book by Thomas Merton, a writer Walker Percy greatly admired, that explores this theme: "Peace in the Post-Christian Era." It was written 40 years ago but the head of Merton's order (he was a Trappist monk) banned its publication. At last it's in print and still quite a fresh read. The publisher is Orbis. The book's foreword is posted at this URL: http://incommunion.org/forest-flier/jimsessays/foreword-merton/ Jim Forest * * * Jim Forest Kanisstraat 5 / 1811 GJ Alkmaar / The Netherlands e-mail: jhforest at cs.com Orthodox Peace Fellowship web site: http://www.incommunion.org Jim & Nancy Forest web site: http://incommunion.org/forest-flier/ * * * The Wormwood File: E-Mail from Hell At the end of C. S. Lewis' Screwtape Letters (1941), the recipient of those missives on the art of temptation, the junior demon Wormwood, was in a pickle -- indeed, might become a pickle, so to speak, for his uncle-advisor's hellish delectation. Jim Forest reveals that Wormwood survived and now advises yet-more-junior tempters, including one Greasebeek, whose first case is the subject of these e-mails. The "client" is a young married man who, when the correspondence begins, has bought a Gregorian chant CD. Not to worry, says Wormwood; most who buy such things "barely listen to what is being sung" and even "give up on Christianity simply because the music in actual churches doesn't measure up." Besides, the client disfavors "organized religion": "What a useful phrase that's been!" Wormwood crows. But, as in Lewis' classic, things go from bad to better for the client. As they do, Wormwood's comments on both contemporary spiritual fashions and age-old temptations illuminate by contrast the strengths of orthodox Christian belief. A worthy sequel to a perdurable popular-theology masterpiece. -- Booklist review by Ray Olson * * * the introduction and several of Wormwood's e-mails are on the web at: http://incommunion.org/forest-flier/books/the-wormwood-file-e-mail-from-hell/ * * * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tfa at brickengraver.com Wed Jan 19 09:30:49 2005 From: tfa at brickengraver.com (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 09:30:49 -0500 Subject: [percy-l] citation request (plus a book recommendation) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050119143033.WIQP4212.imta06a2.registeredsite.com@compaqupstairs> I can't remember where I found it but I deal with "scientists" a lot and thought good signature. It was on the walker percy website some where I think as I remember copying and pasting. 'To be born and to live is to be dislocated.'" Pascal _____ From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of JHForest at cs.com Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 4:25 AM To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [percy-l] citation request (plus a book recommendation) In a message dated 1/19/2005 7:49:19 AM W. Europe Standard Time, tfa at brickengraver.com writes: "Science is extraordinarily stupid about people as people and the consequence of this stupidity is going to do us all in if we don't do something about it" Walker Percy Could someone post the citation for the above quote? It's very timely. Along these lines, let me mention that there's a book by Thomas Merton, a writer Walker Percy greatly admired, that explores this theme: "Peace in the Post-Christian Era." It was written 40 years ago but the head of Merton's order (he was a Trappist monk) banned its publication. At last it's in print and still quite a fresh read. The publisher is Orbis. The book's foreword is posted at this URL: http://incommunion.org/forest-flier/jimsessays/foreword-merton/ Jim Forest * * * Jim Forest Kanisstraat 5 / 1811 GJ Alkmaar / The Netherlands e-mail: jhforest at cs.com Orthodox Peace Fellowship web site: http://www.incommunion.org Jim & Nancy Forest web site: http://incommunion.org/forest-flier/ * * * The Wormwood File: E-Mail from Hell At the end of C. S. Lewis' Screwtape Letters (1941), the recipient of those missives on the art of temptation, the junior demon Wormwood, was in a pickle -- indeed, might become a pickle, so to speak, for his uncle-advisor's hellish delectation. Jim Forest reveals that Wormwood survived and now advises yet-more-junior tempters, including one Greasebeek, whose first case is the subject of these e-mails. The "client" is a young married man who, when the correspondence begins, has bought a Gregorian chant CD. Not to worry, says Wormwood; most who buy such things "barely listen to what is being sung" and even "give up on Christianity simply because the music in actual churches doesn't measure up." Besides, the client disfavors "organized religion": "What a useful phrase that's been!" Wormwood crows. But, as in Lewis' classic, things go from bad to better for the client. As they do, Wormwood's comments on both contemporary spiritual fashions and age-old temptations illuminate by contrast the strengths of orthodox Christian belief. A worthy sequel to a perdurable popular-theology masterpiece. -- Booklist review by Ray Olson * * * the introduction and several of Wormwood's e-mails are on the web at: http://incommunion.org/forest-flier/books/the-wormwood-file-e-mail-from-hell / * * * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kterrell at sheastokes.com Wed Jan 19 11:31:19 2005 From: kterrell at sheastokes.com (Karl M. Terrell) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 11:31:19 -0500 Subject: [percy-l] citation request (plus a book recommendation) Message-ID: <7A5E4A01592B87438BF92B2CC0CA9DC20F056B@at01.sheamcnitt.com> * * This communication is CONFIDENTIAL * * I have enjoyed following the discussions here. My interest in Percy, I'll confess however, is more casual than most of you. I simply think of him as a great writer of fiction, but I enjoy immensely his essays as well. Whether in fiction or nonfiction, I enjoy reading his thoughts about life on the planet. One thing has always interested me, that I'm sure many of you have insight into, and that is the question of why Percy converted to Catholism. In asking this, note that I am not myself Catholic, but a lapsed Presbyterian (though I like to think I possess strong spiritual values). I'm curious as to what attracted him to the faith and practices of this church, and how that played out in his writing and thought. For example, to express it crudely, his observation that bad news makes us feel good, and vice versa .... How does that intersect with his faith? I know this is a huge topic, but I'd be interested to hear anyone's thoughts. Karl -----Original Message----- From: Tommy Armstrong [mailto:tfa at brickengraver.com] Sent: Wed Jan 19 06:30:39 2005 To: 'Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion' Subject: RE: [percy-l] citation request (plus a book recommendation) I can't remember where I found it but I deal with "scientists" a lot and thought good signature. It was on the walker percy website some where I think as I remember copying and pasting. 'To be born and to live is to be dislocated.'" Pascal _____ From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of JHForest at cs.com Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 4:25 AM To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [percy-l] citation request (plus a book recommendation) In a message dated 1/19/2005 7:49:19 AM W. Europe Standard Time, tfa at brickengraver.com writes: "Science is extraordinarily stupid about people as people and the consequence of this stupidity is going to do us all in if we don't do something about it" Walker Percy Could someone post the citation for the above quote? It's very timely. Along these lines, let me mention that there's a book by Thomas Merton, a writer Walker Percy greatly admired, that explores this theme: "Peace in the Post-Christian Era." It was written 40 years ago but the head of Merton's order (he was a Trappist monk) banned its publication. At last it's in print and still quite a fresh read. The publisher is Orbis. The book's foreword is posted at this URL: http://incommunion.org/forest-flier/jimsessays/foreword-merton/ Jim Forest * * * Jim Forest Kanisstraat 5 / 1811 GJ Alkmaar / The Netherlands e-mail: jhforest at cs.com Orthodox Peace Fellowship web site: http://www.incommunion.org Jim & Nancy Forest web site: http://incommunion.org/forest-flier/ * * * The Wormwood File: E-Mail from Hell At the end of C. S. Lewis' Screwtape Letters (1941), the recipient of those missives on the art of temptation, the junior demon Wormwood, was in a pickle -- indeed, might become a pickle, so to speak, for his uncle-advisor's hellish delectation. Jim Forest reveals that Wormwood survived and now advises yet-more-junior tempters, including one Greasebeek, whose first case is the subject of these e-mails. The "client" is a young married man who, when the correspondence begins, has bought a Gregorian chant CD. Not to worry, says Wormwood; most who buy such things "barely listen to what is being sung" and even "give up on Christianity simply because the music in actual churches doesn't measure up." Besides, the client disfavors "organized religion": "What a useful phrase that's been!" Wormwood crows. But, as in Lewis' classic, things go from bad to better for the client. As they do, Wormwood's comments on both contemporary spiritual fashions and age-old temptations illuminate by contrast the strengths of orthodox Christian belief. A worthy sequel to a perdurable popular-theology masterpiece. -- Booklist review by Ray Olson * * * the introduction and several of Wormwood's e-mails are on the web at: http://incommunion.org/forest-flier/books/the-wormwood-file-e-mail-from- hell / * * * ************************************************************************************************ PRIVILEGED COMMUNICATION The information contained in this e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is only for the use of the recipient(s) named above. This message, and its attachments, may contain information that falls under the attorney-client and/or work product privileges. Receipt of this message by an unintended recipient does not constitute a waiver by the sender of any and all applicable privileges. 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If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by e-mail, permanently delete the e-mail and any attachments immediately, and destroy all copies. ************************************************************************************************ From a1irish at comcast.net Wed Jan 19 13:33:21 2005 From: a1irish at comcast.net (Linda Carroll) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 12:33:21 -0600 Subject: [percy-l] Artie Shaw's "The Artist in the Materialist Age" In-Reply-To: <15c.481b61b9.2f1f48e4@aol.com> Message-ID: <001a01c4fe55$5ab51a70$2f340018@LINDA> I have heard Ralph many times and know him personally through a mutual friend; I wish I could be there, but I am in Texas and cannot be in N'Orleans that quickly. I encourage everyone who can to do so. By the way, Ralph is an imminent scholar on another Catholic writer: Flannery O'Connor. He has also written extensively on Tolkien. Linda Carroll -----Original Message----- From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Nikkibar at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 11:24 PM To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org Subject: Re: [percy-l] Artie Shaw's "The Artist in the Materialist Age" Dear list, for anyone in the New Orleans area: There will be a lecture presented at that Baprist Church at the corner of St. Charles Ave and Broadway in New Orleans on Friday at 7 p.m. and the following morning at 9 on the Moviegoer by Ralph Wood from Baylor. I haven't heard Dr. Wood but i understand he is excellent. It would probably give Walker a boost to know that he is making inroads among the Baptists. Any takers? Nikki Barranger -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Hebrunson at aol.com Wed Jan 19 14:10:43 2005 From: Hebrunson at aol.com (Hebrunson at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 14:10:43 EST Subject: [percy-l] Artie Shaw's "The Artist in the Materialist Age" Message-ID: That would be a terrific program. Perhaps more notice from them next time...or, can this be ex;ported to Austin? HEB -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From a1irish at comcast.net Wed Jan 19 14:22:12 2005 From: a1irish at comcast.net (Linda Carroll) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 13:22:12 -0600 Subject: [percy-l] Artie Shaw's "The Artist in the Materialist Age" In-Reply-To: <001a01c4fe55$5ab51a70$2f340018@LINDA> Message-ID: <002d01c4fe5c$2dbd8d20$2f340018@LINDA> Folks, my response just goes to show that a person should not type in haste; I meant to say that Ralph is an eminent scholar, not imminent. His published history will demonstrate my typing error. Linda -----Original Message----- From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Linda Carroll Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 12:33 PM To: 'Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion' Subject: RE: [percy-l] Artie Shaw's "The Artist in the Materialist Age" I have heard Ralph many times and know him personally through a mutual friend; I wish I could be there, but I am in Texas and cannot be in N'Orleans that quickly. I encourage everyone who can to do so. By the way, Ralph is an imminent scholar on another Catholic writer: Flannery O'Connor. He has also written extensively on Tolkien. Linda Carroll -----Original Message----- From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Nikkibar at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 11:24 PM To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org Subject: Re: [percy-l] Artie Shaw's "The Artist in the Materialist Age" Dear list, for anyone in the New Orleans area: There will be a lecture presented at that Baprist Church at the corner of St. Charles Ave and Broadway in New Orleans on Friday at 7 p.m. and the following morning at 9 on the Moviegoer by Ralph Wood from Baylor. I haven't heard Dr. Wood but i understand he is excellent. It would probably give Walker a boost to know that he is making inroads among the Baptists. Any takers? Nikki Barranger -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From BMclaughlin at nazarene.org Wed Jan 19 14:35:52 2005 From: BMclaughlin at nazarene.org (Bryon McLaughlin) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 13:35:52 -0600 Subject: [percy-l] Artie Shaw's "The Artist in the Materialist Age" Message-ID: Is there a way to get a tape or transcript of Wood's presentation? Thanks. Bryon McLaughlin Communications/WEB Manager USA/Canada Mission/Evangelism Department Church of the Nazarene bmclaughlin at nazarene.org (800) 306-9948 Have you visited? www.usamission.org www.digitalnazarene.org (Coming in March 2005) ________________________________ From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Hebrunson at aol.com Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 1:11 PM To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org Subject: Re: [percy-l] Artie Shaw's "The Artist in the Materialist Age" That would be a terrific program. Perhaps more notice from them next time...or, can this be ex;ported to Austin? HEB -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From a1irish at comcast.net Wed Jan 19 17:58:56 2005 From: a1irish at comcast.net (a1irish at comcast.net) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 22:58:56 +0000 Subject: [percy-l] Artie Shaw's "The Artist in the Materialist Age" Message-ID: <011920052258.5533.41EEE630000702EF0000159D2200734830089C079D07CE0E@comcast.net> If a recording is available, I would love to have a copy as well. Linda -------------- Original message -------------- Is there a way to get a tape or transcript of Wood?s presentation? Thanks. Bryon McLaughlin Communications/WEB Manager USA/Canada Mission/Evangelism Department Church of the Nazarene bmclaughlin at nazarene.org (800) 306-9948 Have you visited? www.usamission.org www.digitalnazarene.org (Coming in March 2005) From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Hebrunson at aol.com Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 1:11 PM To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org Subject: Re: [percy-l] Artie Shaw's "The Artist in the Materialist Age" That would be a terrific program. Perhaps more notice from them next time...or, can this be ex;ported to Austin? HEB -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Bryon McLaughlin" Subject: RE: [percy-l] Artie Shaw's "The Artist in the Materialist Age" Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 19:37:06 +0000 Size: 750 URL: From tfa at brickengraver.com Wed Jan 19 19:05:23 2005 From: tfa at brickengraver.com (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 19:05:23 -0500 Subject: [percy-l] Artie Shaw's "The Artist in the Materialist Age" In-Reply-To: <011920052258.5533.41EEE630000702EF0000159D2200734830089C079D07CE0E@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20050120000505.IHXA4212.imta06a2.registeredsite.com@compaqupstairs> I subscribed to this list a couple of months ago and really thought it was dead--but I guess there are others out there. If not a recording, a transcript would be outstanding. The longer I live, the more I come to realize that Percy pretty much has the answers to most questions that are answerable. I think his theory of language is right on the mark--and that when God created man--he did not necessarily not let evolution get to a certain point but He did step in and bestow on that lucky (or cursed) creature that gift. In the beginning was the Word. That was the act of creation-allowing a creature to comprehend what a word is. That was the "tree of good and evil", for before language there was no "good" or no "evil"---there was no selfawareness for there was no word for "me". The story of Helen Keller has been all over cable lately--both the old movie and the new--and when she finally comprehended the word "water" she became a human being. Her story was to Percy what that water coming out of the pump was to Helen. She finally understood. And to my knowledge, there is no other creature on earth that can do that. I'm really probably going off on the deep end as I really do not know any of the members of this list and my comments might not be appropriate. Let me know if they are not. "If you're a big enough fool to climb a tree and like a cat refuse to come down, then someone who loves you has to make as big a fool of himself to rescue you." W Percy _____ From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of a1irish at comcast.net Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 5:59 PM To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion Subject: RE: [percy-l] Artie Shaw's "The Artist in the Materialist Age" If a recording is available, I would love to have a copy as well. Linda -------------- Original message -------------- Is there a way to get a tape or transcript of Woods presentation? Thanks. Bryon McLaughlin Communications/WEB Manager USA/Canada Mission/Evangelism Department Church of the Nazarene bmclaughlin at nazarene.org (800) 306-9948 Have you visited? www.usamission.org www.digitalnazarene.org (Coming in March 2005) _____ From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Hebrunson at aol.com Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 1:11 PM To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org Subject: Re: [percy-l] Artie Shaw's "The Artist in the Materialist Age" That would be a terrific program. Perhaps more notice from them next time...or, can this be ex;ported to Austin? HEB -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dalane at eircom.net Sun Jan 30 05:12:55 2005 From: dalane at eircom.net (Dermot A Lane) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 10:12:55 -0000 Subject: [percy-l] Question Message-ID: <001a01c506b4$447e8770$e9b97dc2@home> Dear list, Walker Percy wrote an article in 1984 diagnosoing the malaise of modernity and postmodernity. Does anyone know of the date and location of this article, and where it might be obtained? D. Lane -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tfa at brickengraver.com Sun Jan 30 12:32:46 2005 From: tfa at brickengraver.com (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 12:32:46 -0500 Subject: [percy-l] Question In-Reply-To: <001a01c506b4$447e8770$e9b97dc2@home> Message-ID: <20050130173202.HBCP4801.imta01a2.registeredsite.com@compaqupstairs> Signposts in a Strange Land. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN%3D0374523452/104-9979306-9920725 http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0374523452/ref=sib_dp_bod_toc/104-9979306-99 20725?%5Fencoding=UTF8 &p=S008#reader-page tommy Armstrong "If you're a big enough fool to climb a tree and like a cat refuse to come down, then someone who loves you has to make as big a fool of himself to rescue you." W Percy _____ From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Dermot A Lane Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 5:13 AM To: Percy-L at lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [percy-l] Question Dear list, Walker Percy wrote an article in 1984 diagnosoing the malaise of modernity and postmodernity. Does anyone know of the date and location of this article, and where it might be obtained? D. Lane -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tfa at brickengraver.com Sun Jan 30 17:45:05 2005 From: tfa at brickengraver.com (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 17:45:05 -0500 Subject: [percy-l] Question In-Reply-To: <001a01c506b4$447e8770$e9b97dc2@home> Message-ID: <20050130224505.COTW7559.imta02a2.registeredsite.com@compaqupstairs> By the way, there is no article that has ever been written that I think diagnoses it as well as this one--I would definitely seriously think about trying to acquire a copy. Tommy "Science is extraordinarily stupid about people as people and the consequence of this stupidity is going to do us all in if we don't do something about it" Walker Percy _____ From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Dermot A Lane Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 5:13 AM To: Percy-L at lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [percy-l] Question Dear list, Walker Percy wrote an article in 1984 diagnosoing the malaise of modernity and postmodernity. Does anyone know of the date and location of this article, and where it might be obtained? D. Lane -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karey at kareyperkins.com Sun Jan 30 18:09:04 2005 From: karey at kareyperkins.com (Karey) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 18:09:04 -0500 Subject: [percy-l] Question References: <20050130173202.HBCP4801.imta01a2.registeredsite.com@compaqupstairs> Message-ID: <001a01c50720$b205ce40$0301000a@220acadf9550KP> Hi Tommy - Where is the Percy quote below located, the one about the cat and the tree? Karey ----- Original Message ----- From: Tommy Armstrong To: 'Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion' Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 12:32 PM Subject: RE: [percy-l] Question Signposts in a Strange Land. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN%3D0374523452/104-9979306-9920725 http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0374523452/ref=sib_dp_bod_toc/104-9979306-9920725?%5Fencoding=UTF8&p=S008#reader-page tommy Armstrong "If you're a big enough fool to climb a tree and like a cat refuse to come down, then someone who loves you has to make as big a fool of himself to rescue you." W Percy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Dermot A Lane Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 5:13 AM To: Percy-L at lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [percy-l] Question Dear list, Walker Percy wrote an article in 1984 diagnosoing the malaise of modernity and postmodernity. Does anyone know of the date and location of this article, and where it might be obtained? D. Lane ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- An archive of all list discussion is available at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy/hypermail Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tfa at brickengraver.com Sun Jan 30 21:18:59 2005 From: tfa at brickengraver.com (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 21:18:59 -0500 Subject: [percy-l] Question In-Reply-To: <001a01c50720$b205ce40$0301000a@220acadf9550KP> Message-ID: <20050131021858.IBZW4212.imta06a2.registeredsite.com@compaqupstairs> I got it second hand and have never verified it as I loaned my copy to a friend. Lost in the Cosmos http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy/burkhardt.html Embedded in the article. Tommy One the other hand, if one is thought an idler and a bum, one is free to do what one pleases... http://www.wfu.edu/~matthetl/south/twenty.html _____ From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Karey Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 6:09 PM To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion Subject: Re: [percy-l] Question Hi Tommy - Where is the Percy quote below located, the one about the cat and the tree? Karey ----- Original Message ----- From: Tommy Armstrong To: 'Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion' Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 12:32 PM Subject: RE: [percy-l] Question Signposts in a Strange Land. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN%3D0374523452/104-9979306-9920725 http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0374523452/ref=sib_dp_bod_toc/104-9979306-99 20725?%5Fencoding=UTF8 &p=S008#reader-page tommy Armstrong "If you're a big enough fool to climb a tree and like a cat refuse to come down, then someone who loves you has to make as big a fool of himself to rescue you." W Percy _____ From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Dermot A Lane Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 5:13 AM To: Percy-L at lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [percy-l] Question Dear list, Walker Percy wrote an article in 1984 diagnosoing the malaise of modernity and postmodernity. Does anyone know of the date and location of this article, and where it might be obtained? D. Lane _____ -- An archive of all list discussion is available at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy/hypermail Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: