[percy-l] LITR

Jonathan Potter jdp at scn.org
Tue Apr 11 02:09:46 EDT 2006


In *Pilgrim in the Ruins*, Jay Tolson discusses the Episcopalian factor in *The
Second Coming*:

"Put positively, Episcopalianism is Catholicism withouth absolutism; put
negatively, it is Catholicism without spine, invertebrate Catholicism.  Yet
here enters the complexity of Percy as a novelist:  he does not judge
Barrett's religion as a lesser thing.  In fact, Percy's novel seems
generously to imply that the fuzzy accommodationism of the Episcopal
communion may have something more to recommend it than the principled
dogmatism of his own church.  Not that Percy believes this.  (Percy, one
might say, is to Will barrett what Catholicism is to Episcopalianism.)  But
as a novelist, Percy cuts against his own grain, against the bias of his own
belief, in order to play with possibilities beyond his knowing.  This
constitutes the dialectical, or dialogic, aspect of his fiction, and it is
one reason why his novels are sometimes accused of being unresolved."  (p.
425)


On 4/10/06, RHONDA MCDONNELL <rhonda_mcdonnell at msn.com> wrote:
>
> Rich--
>
> I hadn't thought of that scene from MG, but, thinking of it now, I agree
> with your assessment. Particularly when I think of Lonnie's presence. And,
> regarding the presence of grace, the moment near the end of the novel,
> when
> the man comes out of the church on Ash Wednesday, is another one of those
> moments of potential grace.
>
> By the way, I'm certain Weatherbee is Episcopalian--as priests, they, too,
> are at times called "Father." It's one of those holdovers from Catholicism
> and the Anglican church's odd beginning.
>
> --Rhonda
> The best lack all convictions, while the worst
> Are full of passionate intensity. -- WB Yeats
>
>
> >From: "Gray, Rich" <RGray at montreat.edu>
> >Reply-To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion"
> ><percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org>
> >To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion"
> ><percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org>
> >Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR
> >Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 19:56:23 -0400
> >
> >Rhonda and Jonathan,
> >
> >I have been away for several days while you have been working on the
> >question of priests in Percy, especially Fr. Weatherby.  A useful
> >conversation.
> >
> >As a protestant reader, I rely on Catholics or protestants with more
> >insight than I, to figure out how priests work in Percy's novels.
> >
> >I have assumed that Weatherby is Catholic by being a "Father."  Him
> >substituting for Jack could be due to Jack's ecumenism coupled with Jack
> >deferring to the institution's residents.
> >
> >Weatherby appreciates the Christian gospel that has been believed and
> >practiced for centuries.  Jack Curl seems not to have this ancient-based
> >theology.  His beliefs are sociological.
> >
> >Jonathan's term "the Percyan scheme of things" is what interests me.  I
> >think Percy has a priestly character or priestly function in every novel.
> >For example, Binx goes to Mass with his step-family -- an event at which
> a
> >priest oversees the giving of blessing .  You can use a priest to show
> the
> >presence of grace, whereas without a priest, you must use symbolic
> >settings, characters praying, characters talking about their faith, and
> >scripture quoted or alluded to.
> >
> >How does this sound?
> >
> >Rich
> >
> >       -----Original Message-----
> >       From: Jonathan Potter [mailto:jdp at scn.org]
> >       Sent: Sun 4/9/2006 7:24 PM
> >       To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion
> >       Cc:
> >       Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR
> >
> >
> >       You're absolutely right.  I guess it just seemed like Fr.
> Weatherbee ought
> >to be RC in the Percyan scheme of things.
> >
> >       I couldn't find a discussion of their being episcopalians in the
> two
> >collections of interviews, but I did find one reference, where the
> >interviewer, Peggy Castex, remarks that sometimes it's hard to tell
> whether
> >Percy's protagonist "is on the right track or the wrong track, whether he
> >is deluded or has got part of the message which may lead him to the whole
> >truth."
> >
> >       To which Percy replies: "You ought to know as a displaced
> American,
> >latterday French lady that a writer cannot get away with theological
> >revelations.... Of course the key is at the end of the novel.  It
> involves
> >Will's relationship with Allie and the the nutty old priest [Weatherbee]
> >who is out of his mind, but may be saner than the younger priest [Curl]."
> >(More Conversations, p. 48)
> >
> >       I guess you could expand the original question about priests to
> consider
> >Catholics and/or other believers that appear in Percy's novels.  Val
> would
> >be one to consider for sure.  And I would add Lonnie from The Moviegoer,
> >along with Fr. Smith and Percival.  I'm not sure I'd lump Fr. Boomer in
> LG
> >in with the Fr. Curl type; it seems to me he does a pretty serviceable
> job
> >with Jamie's baptism -- but I can't remember whether he appears earlier.
> >
> >       --Jonathan
> >
> >
> >       On 4/9/06, RHONDA MCDONNELL <rhonda_mcdonnell at msn.com> wrote:
> >
> >               You're right, Episcopalian is the American term.  For what
> it's worth,
> >               chapter 12 begins, "Father Weatherbee sat behind Jack
> Curl's mahogany
> >desk
> >               with its collection of Russian ikons and bleeding Mexican
> crucifixes."
> >Both
> >               Weatherbee and Curl are Episcopalian. What I can't
> remember is why Percy
> >               made them Episcopalian. He discusses it in an interview,
> but I don't have
> >               the time to dig it up. While I'm here in chapter 12, Fr.
> Weatherbee's
> >rant:
> >
> >               How can we be the best earest most generous people on
> earth, and at the
> >same
> >               time so unhappy? How harsh everyone is here! How restless!
> How impatient!
> >               How worried! How sarcastic! How unhappy! How hateful! How
> >pleasure-loving!
> >               How lascivious! Above all, how selfish! Why is it that we
> have more than
> >any
> >               other people, are more generous with what we have, and yet
> are so selfish
> >               and unhappy? Why do we think of hothing but our own
> pleasure? I cannot
> >               believe my eyes at what I see on television. It makes me
> blush with
> >shame.
> >               Did you know that pleasure-seeking leads to cruelty? That
> is why more and
> >               more people beat their children. Children interfere with
> pleasure. Do you
> >               hate children? Why can't we be grateful for our great
> blessings and thank
> >               God? . . . Why is it that Americans who are the best
> dearest most
> >generous
> >               people on earth are so unhappy?"
> >
> >               He's definitely in the same vein as Father Smith. And
> Boomer (wasn't that
> >               his name?) is Last Gentleman is of the Jack Curl type. The
> question
> >               beginning of this line of thought, regarding Percy's
> priests, is a good
> >one.
> >               It looks like he's working from two types--my question is,
> can Val from
> >Last
> >               Gentleman be grouped with Frs. Weatherbee and Smith?
> >               --Rhonda
> >               The best lack all convictions, while the worst
> >               Are full of passionate intensity. -- WB Yeats
> >
> >
> >               >From: "Jonathan Potter" <jdp at scn.org>
> >               >Reply-To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical
> Discussion"
> >               >< percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org <mailto:
> percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org> >
> >               >To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion"
> >               ><percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org>
> >               >Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR
> >               >Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 10:02:24 -0700
> >               >
> >               >I thought Fr. Weatherbee (the priest Will questions at
> the end, grabbing
> >               >his
> >               >arm) was Roman Catholic.  It's been awhile since I've
> read it, but I'm
> >               >pretty sure it was just the priest earlier in the book
> that was
> >               >Anglican/Episcopalian.
> >               >
> >               >Jonathan Potter
> >               >Spokane WA
> >               >
> >               >
> >               >On 4/8/06, RHONDA MCDONNELL < rhonda_mcdonnell at msn.com
> ><mailto:rhonda_mcdonnell at msn.com> > wrote:
> >               > >
> >               > > wasn't the first one you mention the guy that wore the
> jumpsuits and
> >               >acts
> >               > > more like a building super than a priest? Jack Curl
> maybe? The second
> >               >was
> >               > > Fr. Weatherbee, whose rant regarding the behavior of
> Americans is
> >               > > genius--wasn't the quote something about his silly (or
> simple), holy
> >               >face?
> >               > > Weatherbee is definitely linked to Fr. Smith. He seems
> to be daft but
> >               >he's
> >               > > really the one that's onto something that no one else
> is paying
> >               >attention
> >               > > to. He knows the truth of things. That's why Will asks
> him the
> >important
> >               > > questions. Worth noting is that the priests in 2nd
> Coming are
> >Anglican
> >               >(as
> >               > > is the priest Lance is named for in Lancelot).
> >               > >
> >               > > --Rhonda
> >               > > The best lack all convictions, while the worst
> >               > > Are full of passionate intensity. -- WB Yeats
> >               > >
> >               > >
> >               > > >From: <Robert_Pauley at oxy.com>
> >               > > >Reply-To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical
> Discussion"
> >               > > >< percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org>
> >               > > >To: <percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org>
> >               > > >Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR
> >               > > >Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 10:23:07 -0700
> >               > > >
> >               > > >A couple of priests played pivotal roles in The
> Second Coming.  I
> >don't
> >               > > >recall his name, but the parish priest always trying
> to encourage
> >Will
> >               > > >Barrett to join his church's men's group outings and
> otherwise come
> >               > > >"into the fold" was one, and represented the kind the
> extreme
> >               > > >earnestness which Percy, or at least Barrett, found
> simultaneously
> >               > > >cloying and yet not unimportant to a community.  The
> second was an
> >               > > >older, former renegade missionary who jolts Will into
> his final,
> >               > > >redemptive awareness that "a gift may be a sign of a
> giver."  I
> >found
> >               > > >this Percy novel to be his most accomplished and
> accessible: a
> >solidly
> >               > > >grounded meditation on suburban malaise and
> self-delusion, an
> >effective
> >               > > >and prescient social satire (Will's daughter's
> "new-age" enthusiasms
> >               >are
> >               > > >hilarious), and a touching love story.  Not easy to
> pull off.  It
> >               > > >tracked a character straight through from the impulse
> to suicide to
> >a
> >               > > >saving awareness without ever resorting to the kind
> of dopey
> >flourishes
> >               > > >of so many other social satires of the time - and
> afterward.
> >               >Basically,
> >               > > >Will Barrett loses his mind without ever losing his
> head.  I also
> >               > > >appreciated the fact that it followed up on Will
> Barrett after
> >leaving
> >               > > >him off in a Santa Fe wasteland so many years before.
> >               > > >
> >               > > >Peace.
> >               > > >
> >               > > >________________________________
> >               > > >
> >               > > >From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org
> >               > > >[mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf
> Of Dye, Steve
> >               > > >Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 7:35 AM
> >               > > >To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion
> >               > > >Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR
> >               > > >
> >               > > >
> >               > > >You are asking a very loaded question - it will be
> interesting to
> >see
> >               > > >the responses you get!
> >               > > >
> >               > > >Steven L. Dye, MA
> >               > > >Director
> >               > > >Bluegrass MH-MR Board, Inc.
> >               > > >1500 Leestown Road, Suite 338
> >               > > >Lexington, KY 40511
> >               > > >
> >               > > >-----Original Message-----
> >               > > >From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org
> >               > > >[mailto: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org
> ><mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org> ] On Behalf Of Gray, Rich
> >               > > >Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 10:31 AM
> >               > > >To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion
> >               > > >Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR
> >               > > >
> >               > > >
> >               > > >
> >               > > >________________________________
> >               > > >
> >               > > >From: Dye, Steve [mailto:sldye at bluegrass.org ]
> >               > > >Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 9:43 AM
> >               > > >To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion
> >               > > >
> >               > > >Have any of you considered the role of priests in
> Percy's novels?
> >Is
> >               > > >there any common thread?
> >               > > >
> >               > > >In The Moviegoer is there a priest?  The role grows
> into a main
> >               > > >character in The Thanatos Syndrome, Father Reynaldo
> Smith.  There
> >must
> >               > > >be a purpose for these priests.
> >               > > >
> >               > > >As a Protestant Christian, I would like to know if
> Catholic Percy
> >               > > >readers see any of these priests as realistic.
> >               > > >
> >               > > >Rich Gray
> >               > >
> >               > >
> >               > > >--
> >               > > >An archive of all list discussion is available at
> >               > > >http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/
> >               > > >
> >               > > >Visit the Walker Percy Project at
> http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy
> >               > >
> >               > >
> _________________________________________________________________
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> >               > >
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> http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy
> >               > >
> >
> >
> >               >--
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> http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy
> >
> >
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> >
> >               Visit the Walker Percy Project at
> http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ><< winmail.dat >>
>
>
> >--
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> >http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/
> >
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>
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