[percy-l] Percy-L Digest, Vol 44, Issue 4
RHONDA MCDONNELL
rhonda_mcdonnell at msn.com
Mon Jan 8 11:09:40 EST 2007
Not yet--from reviews, it sounds more like Margaret Atwood than Percy.
Beyond the general apocalyptic setting, is anything else particularly
Percian?
--Rhonda
"I'd rather learn from one bird how to sing
than teach ten thousand stars how not to dance"
e.e. cummings
>From: "Dye, Steve" <sldye at bluegrass.org>
>Reply-To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion"
><percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org>
>To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion"
><percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org>
>Subject: Re: [percy-l] Percy-L Digest, Vol 44, Issue 4
>Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 06:37:40 -0500
>
>Speaking of 'end of the world" scenarios in Percy, has anyone seen
>"Children of Men'???
>
>________________________________
>
>From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org on behalf of Michael Larson
>Sent: Fri 1/5/2007 11:01 PM
>To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org
>Subject: RE: Percy-L Digest, Vol 44, Issue 4
>
>
>
>Rhonda wrote: "If Percy is right and the 20th century was
>the century of death and its inhabitants were, in his words, death-dealing
>and death-loving, what does this 21st century bring?"
>
>Another theme of Percy is the end of the world, picked up most
>directly--though in a comic way--in Love in the Ruins, where he postulates
>that the end is in the not-too-distant future. If he is right, then we
>might expect a good deal more death ahead than the 20th century brought us.
>Nothing that prompted the infamous label, the Culture of Death, has changed
>much since the last century, yet there is plenty room for an
>intensification of this propensity. Simultaneously, of course, we might
>expect much clamouring for peace. A true version of it, however, might be
>difficult to find.
>
>Rhonda wrote: "If we agree with Michael, that LANCELOT speaks, in part, for
>Walker (I'm willing to entertain the notion), then can we see the Percy
>protagonists in a continuum of sorts? If so, Lance is a purgative
>character."
>
>Interesting. He's serving time, it's true. And at the end, there is the
>glimmer of a notion that he might even be released from the dark place he
>has been.
>
>I'm not sure about a continuum, but I can see pairs: Binx and Tom are
>amused and amusing. Will and Lance are serious and troubled, disoriented
>and wounded. Will, I think, is the most admirable of the four, the most
>equipped in the end to ascend.
>
>Regards,
>Michael Larson
>
>PS: And yes, Rhonda, this post was perfectly readable!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
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>percy-l-request at lists.ibiblio.org
>Sent: Fri 1/5/2007 11:00 AM
>To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org
>Subject: Percy-L Digest, Vol 44, Issue 4
>
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>Today's Topics:
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> 1. Re: Percy-L Digest, Vol 44, Issue 1 (RHONDA MCDONNELL)
> 2. Lancelot (Michael Larson)
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Message: 1
>Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 10:34:08 -0700
>From: "RHONDA MCDONNELL" <rhonda_mcdonnell at msn.com>
>Subject: Re: [percy-l] Percy-L Digest, Vol 44, Issue 1
>To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org
>Message-ID: <BAY116-F14F7FAED01A16F050C7F99E4B80 at phx.gbl>
>Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>
>Rich wrote:
> >How can one be against the world without wishing to be a terrorist--maybe
> >just for one day?
>
>I wonder if that feeling (which I understand and sometimes share) is part
>and parcel of our current state. If Percy is right and the 20th century was
>the century of death and its inhabitants were, in his words, death-dealing
>and death-loving, what does this 21st century bring?
>
>This conversation has me thinking of LANCELOT within the chronology of
>Percy's work. If we agree with Michael, that LANCELOT speaks, in part, for
>Walker (I'm willing to entertain the notion), then can we see the Percy
>protagonists in a continuum of sorts? If so, Lance is a purgative
>character.
>In the novel that follows, THE SECOND COMING, Will is able to pitch the
>death urge over a cliff and to build a community rather than destroy one
>(at
>least, that's his plan).
>
>p.s. Michael, is this more readable??
>
>--Rhonda
>
>"I'd rather learn from one bird how to sing
>than teach ten thousand stars how not to dance"
>
> e.e. cummings
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Communicate instantly! Use your Hotmail address to sign into Windows Live
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>------------------------------
>
>Message: 2
>Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 23:03:20 -0600
>From: "Michael Larson" <Mlarson at SOUTHEASTMN.EDU>
>Subject: [percy-l] Lancelot
>To: <percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org>
>Message-ID:
> <3920C4B0B41025479F39D775289D7AA03F6FED at wa-SEex.Southeasttech.edu>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>Rich wrote: "With Lance Lamar in Lancelot speaking for frustrated, worried
>Catholics or even a Protestant like me, does that mean a ranting dreamer of
>judgement crouches in us too?"
>
>There are, perhaps, both bad and good reasons to love justice--if justice
>is in fact what you mean by judgement. The desire to see others suffer
>punishment for their wrongs is suspect at best (and sadistic at worst). But
>true charity--that is, a deep and abiding love of God--would also produce a
>love of justice, not borne out of a deluded self-righteousness but out of
>sorrow and palpable suffering for the injuries endured by God himself, most
>tangibly in the passion of the Christ. This love of justice springs not out
>of a hatred toward offenders but out of an attachment to the one who is
>offended.
>
>Rich also wrote: "How can one be against the world without wishing to be a
>terrorist--maybe just for one day?"
>
>And maybe this is where Lance and Percy part ways. They both see what's
>wrong; they are both against the world. But Lance reacts with despair and
>assumes justice for himself, while Percy reacts with faith--feeling perhaps
>simultaneous sorrow--but leaves justice, both for the world and for
>himself, entirely in God's hands. Ultimately, this is the only sane
>response among those who perceive--often all too keenly--their own
>countless failings.
>
>Best regards,
>Michael Larson
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org on behalf of
>percy-l-request at lists.ibiblio.org
>Sent: Thu 1/4/2007 11:00 AM
>To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org
>Subject: Percy-L Digest, Vol 44, Issue 3
>
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>Today's Topics:
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> 1. Re: Percy-L Digest, Vol 44, Issue 1 (Gray, Rich)
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Message: 1
>Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 17:13:43 -0500
>From: "Gray, Rich" <RGray at montreat.edu>
>Subject: Re: [percy-l] Percy-L Digest, Vol 44, Issue 1
>To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion"
> <percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org>
>Message-ID:
> <CAC5B33076E9264A9E79A4F6145C23FA05267DFC at e2kmail.montreat.edu>
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>
>Michael wrote:
>Lance speaks for Will Percy and the loss of southern stoicism. But he also
>speaks for Walker.
>
>With Lance Lamar in Lancelot speaking for frustrated, worried Catholics or
>even a Protestant like me, does that mean a ranting dreamer of judgement
>crouches in us too? When decadence rubs against me, I often ask myself,
>"Will God's anger crash down now?"
>
>
>Then I think "I'm among the righteous remnant. The world may say 'I've got
>no strings to hold me down,' yet I'm listening to Jiminy Cricket. My
>conscience will be my guide."
>
>
>How can one be against the world without wishing to be a terrorist--maybe
>just for one day?
>
>Rich Gray
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Larson
> Sent: Tue 1/2/2007 10:59 PM
>
>
>
> I don't know about anyone else on the list, but Rhonda's posts did
>some funky formatting on my computer, such that I could not read them in
>email. Once I copied and pasted into a Word document, though, I saw that
>she had some great things to say. I think it is correct that Lance speaks
>for Will Percy and the loss of southern stoicism. But he also speaks for
>Walker. In fact, the changes in the Church are not unlike the changes in
>the social order. The changes in both are, in many ways, the kindred
>products of modernity. Lance affords Percy an opportunity to speak (yes, in
>an amped-up fashion) for both Will and Walker, each bemoaning the loss of
>something he perceives to be of the utmost importance.
>
> It seems to me that Lance, as a fictional character, might have
>been the only way that Percy could express such anxiety. He certainly
>wasn't about to go public straight-up with a disillusioned characterization
>of the Church. So he did it in fiction, and Lancelot isn't the only place,
>though it is perhaps the edgiest. As Rhonda says, Percy did not despair
>ultimately: he hoped; but that hope was in spite of a world gone mad and a
>church gone soft--not BECAUSE of either one of them.
>
> As far as the jihadists go, yes, they are believers. And yes,
>there are Catholic believers and Protestant believers, and many other kinds
>of believers, but it is only the trait of belief that binds each to each.
>It is not the content of their belief. They do not believe in the same
>things. Of course there is overlap, but there are mutually exclusive
>differences as well. Unless religious relativism is true, they simply
>cannot all be correct. So in being willing at the end of the novel to
>listen to Fr. John, Lance teaches us a lesson ONLY if Fr. John's version of
>the truth is the Truth. Clearly this is what Percy is intimating. If the
>Catholic truth that Fr. John represents is replacable by any (fill in the
>blank) serious-minded religious figure, then Percy is handing us nothing
>but relativism. Which he isn't.
>
> As Rhonda says, Percy does indeed speak through Fr. John. That's
>the beauty of fiction: authorial voice may enter any number of characters
>at strategic moments, even those (the priest and Lance) who represent
>ambivalent and dichotomous grapplings with the same reality (the Church).
>
>
> Regarding Rhonda's other post--a "bad peace" might be one that is
>based on egalitarianism, indifference, apathy, rather than on truth, true
>charity, and an acclimation to the real reality (i.e. God's).
>
> Regards,
> Michael Larson
>
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