From hpmills3 at austin.rr.com Sun Oct 10 10:13:45 2010 From: hpmills3 at austin.rr.com (Henry Mills) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2010 09:13:45 -0500 Subject: [percy-l] Important Update--How to contact the list moderator/search the percy-l archives Message-ID: Dear Percy-L, In recently reviewing the Percy-L Guidelines, an updated version of which I post below, I observed that there was an incorrect email address specified for contacting me as list moderator. (The Percy-L Guidelines are automatically distributed to new members at list sign-up.) Please note that list members should use following permanent email address for sending any questions, comments, or other special concerns to me regarding the list or its operations: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org Now in its fifteen year of operation, Percy-L currently has 110 members with all posts since 2001 conveniently archived at the following address: http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/. Note that you can search the Percy-L archives by using the following Google command: Google command to search the Percy-L archives: site:lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ [search string (omit the brackets)] Put this command in the Google search box, not in your browser?s URL box. I encourage all members to bring new discussion topics regarding Percy or his works to the list at any time, including potential discussion or correlation of the relevance of his work to current events. Please also do take a few minutes to review the updated Percy-L Guidelines found below and save this email for your future reference. I look forward to the next round of discussion! Best regards, Henry Mills Percy-L Moderator The Walker Percy Project, Founder http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy (WPP website) ******************************************************************** PERCY-L GUIDELINES: PLEASE SAVE THIS WELCOME MESSAGE ******************************************************************** PERCY-L GUIDELINES This document provides an overview of the Percy-L listserv discussion policies followed by a list of the basic user commands for operating your account. Please save this document for future reference. A. GENERAL POLICIES The Percy-L forum is open to the discussion of all topics pertaining to the work and thought of the American novelist and philosopher Walker Percy. Students, general readers, and scholars are all welcome, as well as simply the curious. There is no standing agenda for the list except the promotion of commentary of the sort that one would expect from people with a special interest in Percy. As such, the list will remain unmoderated unless some future reason requires it. A diverse range of critical perspectives is therefore welcomed, if not encouraged, as long as the manner and method of expression are responsible and respectful of the parties they are addressed to, as well as the larger list membership as a whole. (Quick Links) The following is a list of ?quick links? related to the list (also see the bottom of these guidelines for additional listings): 1) To post to this list, send your email to: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org 2) General information about the list and account management options such as password retrieval are available at: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/percy-l 3) All messages are publicly archived at the following address: http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ B. INTRODUCING YOURSELF Please consider introducing yourself to the Percy-L community even if you plan to participate only as an observer. The more we all know what our various interests are, the more likely it is that someone will address them in some way. With any good fortune, as list discussion and participation grow, Percy-L will develop into a vital community resource, from both its ongoing inquiry into Percy's work as well as the record of discussion that is contained in the list's permanent archives. The more we invest ourselves in the list, and in developing connections with one another, the more fully we will all benefit from it by the communal undertaking it is. C. INTRODUCING TOPICS Members should feel free to introduce a new topic for discussion or to respond to any existing "thread" or line of thought already in process at any time, as you see fit. This medium of communication takes multiple "threads" of discourse to be a given: anyone can enter into the discussion at any time, just as those already involved in it can pay as much or as little attention to whatever is of interest to them. Needless to say, both patience and tolerance are encouraged in all matters related to the list, for electronic discussion of this sort is fraught with the potential for misunderstanding, even as it provides for new channels of discussion. If no one responds to your post, you should not assume that that is because of a lack of interest, or that your post is perceived as unimportant. Frequently, the interested reader just doesn't have time to respond, and few of us have time to answer more than a small percentage of the posts that are of interest to us in any case. Therefore, pose your questions and comments well by your own standards, and remind yourself that, even if there is no direct response, what you have said or asked will be read by a large body of Percy-enthusiasts. And who is to say in what way ripples may occur following any post? If response is important to you, then wait a month or so and try sending your query again. D. REPLYING TO TOPICS In replying to posted topics, it is helpful to others if you provide a beginning line in your message indicating who you are replying to and about what (brevity is encouraged when it comes to quoting). For the same reason, you should also consider having a closing signature line or block in all of your messages that identifies who you are or your affiliation. How much information you wish to provide about yourself is up to you, but any information you provide will likely help members keep better track of the conversational flow. E. A NOTE ON THE NATURE OF GROUP DISCUSSIONS During group discussions, it is not infrequent that participants may wish to individually address others through the list, but such an occurrence does not necessarily mean that the discussion has become "personal" in the sense that it would best be conducted off-list. To put it in other words, what is personal and what is _private_ are two separate matters. Rather, the question at hand is whether the discussion concerns topics of broader relevance to the purposes of the list as a whole as identified in section A. It is therefore more than acceptable for any number of individuals in public electronic-based discussions of this sort to pursue special interests as long as there is nothing deliberately exclusive of others in it, either explicitly or in tone. However, if you have any problems about topics being posted, or in connection with the receipt or posting of your own messages, please contact the list administrator at percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org. F. SPECIAL DISCUSSION CONSIDERATIONS In order to keep discussion focused on Percy subjects, please observe the following discussion guidelines: 1) Avoid introducing what might be considered partisan political topics, unless they directly bear on or are consciously correlated to Percy and his thought. This rule does not exclude current events from discussion, but merely underscores that this is a listserv dedicated to Percy topics, not personal political agendas. 2) Please do not forward outside announcements through the list unless a case can be made for a direct connection to Percy and the interests of those who have joined the list. If in doubt, please contact the list administrator at percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org. 3) Please contact the list administrator at percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org before submitting any posts involving the marketing of Percy-related products if you represent a business or non-profit group (bookstores, film-makers, etc.). Individual, non-commercial collectors of such items as rare books or memorabilia are welcome to post to the list at any time as long as the messages involved specify that interested parties should approach the seller off-list to conduct any transactions. G. SPECIAL TECHNICAL CONSIDERATIONS In order to keep list operations efficient, please be aware of and observe the following technical concerns: 1) HTML-based email messages will post as HTML, though members should be mindful that a select few of list members may not have their email applications HTML-enabled so any special formatting you use will be lost. Text-only messages are assured to be readable by all however you format them. 2) Please do not send images through the listserv. If you wish for members to see a particular image, place it on a website and then direct the members of the list to it by including the URL in your message body. Since some members may use a dial-up connection, this tactic provides individual users with the option of viewing the image, and hence will limit frustration with download times associated with the list. The same holds true for any other media items such as sound, video, or animation files. 3) Lastly, please do not forward any large attachments through the list. This rule also limits member frustration with long download times. If you have a particular document to share that relates to Percy, please make certain that its size is no more than 100kb. Also, be mindful of sending the document in a format that will be readily accessible to all members, for instance, Microsoft Word or Adobe PDF. Alternatively, and perhaps the best option given virus concerns (many members will be wary of opening a file attachment), you can cut-and-paste the contents of your document directly into the body of the email message. Since this method will distribute your document?s content in a text-only format, the size of the document will be considerably smaller, and there is no risk of transmitting/receiving a virus in a text-only email. H. A FEW POSTING TIPS: CURRENT & FUTURE READERS Following these tips will help insure a better quality of present list discussion and enhance future accessibility to your messages in the archives: 1) Please quote messages you are replying to astutely and sparingly, using your cut, paste, and delete functions. A "reader-friendly" message has a better chance of being responded to. 2) Avoid short, personal comments along the lines of "I agree," etc., that do not significantly advance Percy content discussion. These comments would best be submitted solely to the person they are intended for rather than to the listserv address (i.e., the entire membership). Please be heedful of the time of the list members--many belong to multiple mailing lists--by only submitting posts that in some shape or form better the interests of the entire community. 3) Always fill in the "subject" box of your email to help readers identify your topic of discussion. 4) Remember that if you use the "reply" command to a message you have received through the list, your message will be distributed publicly to all members of the list. However, if you want to have private correspondence with someone who has sent a message through the list, you should create a _new_ e-mail message and address it specifically to him or her lest the entire list will read your message. 5) To help individual members of the Percy-L community follow the context of your comments, be attentive to your use of quoting and quote identification methods. For example, consider including the following sample information immediately below the text of your comments in an email message response: At 06:18 PM 9/17/96, Binx Bolling wrote: >I am on a search! If you wish to add other quotes to your message from multiple posts or other sources, be certain to identify clearly where the material comes from in a way that you determine will make best sense to your post?s readers. As before, the better crafted and referenced your message, the more likely it will generate thoughtful response from the community. =========================================================== A. USER ACCOUNT MANAGEMENT The following links and information will be useful to you in managing your listserv account. All changes to your account require your specified password (listed below). Note: This is a hidden list. The member roster is available only to the list administrator. B. QUESTIONS, COMMENTS, OR CONCERNS? Please direct questions, comments, or other concerns about the Percy-L Guidelines or about listserv operations to the list administrator at percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org. C. USER LINKS & OPTIONS All messages are archived at the following address: http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ Subscribe via the listserv web page at: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/percy-l -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From janetcantor37 at yahoo.com Sun Oct 10 12:40:31 2010 From: janetcantor37 at yahoo.com (janet cantor) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2010 09:40:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [percy-l] The Moviegoer Message-ID: <978818.66559.qm@web63604.mail.re1.yahoo.com> I would like to ask some questions about the Moviegoer. Can someone please answer this? Thank you. Honey -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From janetcantor37 at yahoo.com Sun Oct 10 19:15:17 2010 From: janetcantor37 at yahoo.com (janet cantor) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2010 16:15:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [percy-l] The Moviegoer Message-ID: <279457.7436.qm@web63607.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Would someone be willing to answer some questions on the Moviegoer? Thanks, Honey -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From janetcantor37 at yahoo.com Sun Oct 10 23:11:53 2010 From: janetcantor37 at yahoo.com (janet cantor) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2010 20:11:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [percy-l] The Moviegoer Message-ID: <372024.13720.qm@web63606.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Would someone be willing to answer some questions on the Moviegoer? Thanks, janetcantor37 at yahoo.com (honey) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hpmills3 at austin.rr.com Mon Oct 11 09:11:22 2010 From: hpmills3 at austin.rr.com (Henry Mills) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 08:11:22 -0500 Subject: [percy-l] The Moviegoer/Basic Posting Guidelines In-Reply-To: <372024.13720.qm@web63606.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Janet, For best results, please list your questions in written format in the body of your post to the list. Please note that it is not necessary or appropriate to send the same post through the list multiple times. If someone is interested in replying, they will be able to do so from your original post. Sometimes receiving a reply may take several days, so you may have to be patient. Not all posts receive replies based on limitations in members? interests and time. You may also find it helpful to identify whether you are a student or why you are interested in the MG. Percy-L is open to all levels of readers of Walker Percy. You can contact me directly with any questions at percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org. Best regards, Henry Mills Percy-L Moderator From: janet cantor Reply-To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2010 20:11:53 -0700 (PDT) To: Subject: [percy-l] The Moviegoer > > Would someone be willing to answer some questions on the Moviegoer? > Thanks, > janetcantor37 at yahoo.com > (honey) > > > -- An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From morticia7 at juno.com Mon Oct 11 10:30:15 2010 From: morticia7 at juno.com (morticia7 at juno.com) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 10:30:15 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] The Moviegoer Message-ID: <20101011.103016.3784.1.morticia7@juno.com> Janet: I don't know how old you are, but it seems that you grew up during the generation that needs "instant gratification". Well, this is the fourth time you've sent this email to me in a few days---I don't do "desperate" and I most emphatically don't answer pleas for instant gratification. You obviously have no patience, you have not attached your questions (which you should have done so people can judge whether or not they want to participate), you've not stated whether you're a student, member of a book or movie group, or too lazy to figure out the MOVIEGOER for yourself, and you're bordering on email harassment with your multiple emails. I would have answered your first email had you listed the questions, but then immediately came the barrage of emails and now I'm no longer interested (as I'm sure you've already ticked off a number of other potential participants). Please cease and desist. Cathy (a.k.a morticia7) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- On Sun, 10 Oct 2010 20:11:53 -0700 (PDT) janet cantor writes: Would someone be willing to answer some questions on the Moviegoer? Thanks, janetcantor37 at yahoo.com (honey) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gregory.plemmons at Vanderbilt.Edu Mon Oct 11 09:47:00 2010 From: gregory.plemmons at Vanderbilt.Edu (Plemmons, Gregory) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 08:47:00 -0500 Subject: [percy-l] Love In The Ruins Message-ID: <1ED00130EB6B5246ABF8AAA28896D93F0AE7021D62@ITS-HCWNEM02.ds.Vanderbilt.edu> For those of you who may have not seen the latest issue of the Oxford American, there's an essay by William Caverlee on Percy's Love In the Ruins, with commentary on The Thanatos Syndrome as well--two of Percy's less heralded works. The essay is not available online. All best, Gregory Plemmons gregory.plemmons at vanderbilt.edu From hpmills3 at austin.rr.com Mon Oct 11 11:46:33 2010 From: hpmills3 at austin.rr.com (Henry Mills) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 10:46:33 -0500 Subject: [percy-l] The Moviegoer/Percy and Electronic Discourse In-Reply-To: <20101011.103016.3784.1.morticia7@juno.com> Message-ID: Cathy, The confusion should now be resolved. Please send any concerns you may have in the future about any posts directly to me at percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org. I will be glad to address them to everyone?s satisfaction as best as is possible. Thank you for your patience and for understanding the humanness we all bring to electronic discourse. Of course, I believe Percy himself would take keen interest in electronic forms of communication were he writing today, though I don?t know what unique insights he might add. Nikki, any suggestions from your knowledge of his use of the computer? Best, Henry Mills Percy-L Moderator From: Reply-To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 10:30:15 -0400 To: Subject: Re: [percy-l] The Moviegoer Janet: I don't know how old you are, but it seems that you grew up during the generation that needs "instant gratification". Well, this is the fourth time you've sent this email to me in a few days---I don't do "desperate" and I most emphatically don't answer pleas for instant gratification. You obviously have no patience, you have not attached your questions (which you should have done so people can judge whether or not they want to participate), you've not stated whether you're a student, member of a book or movie group, or too lazy to figure out the MOVIEGOER for yourself, and you're bordering on email harassment with your multiple emails. I would have answered your first email had you listed the questions, but then immediately came the barrage of emails and now I'm no longer interested (as I'm sure you've already ticked off a number of other potential participants). Please cease and desist. Cathy (a.k.a morticia7) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - On Sun, 10 Oct 2010 20:11:53 -0700 (PDT) janet cantor writes: > > > >> >> >> Would someone be willing to answer some questions on the Moviegoer? >> Thanks, >> janetcantor37 at yahoo.com >> (honey) >> > > > -- An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kfw1 at va.net Mon Oct 11 14:07:51 2010 From: kfw1 at va.net (Ken Wilson) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 14:07:51 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] Does anyone know the souce of these quotes? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5AAE872FC3A847DBB1BB10F188979557@Kenpc> Re: [percy-l] The Moviegoer/Percy and Electronic DiscourseHello Everyone -- I'm a longtime subscriber to this list, and an avid Percy reader since the early 80's. Upon request I recently sent a friend several of Percy quotes for his blog, including: "The search is what anyone would undertake if he were not sunk in the everydayness of his own life. To become aware of the possibility of the search is to be onto something. Not to be onto something is to be in despair." 'We love those who know the worst of us and don't turn their faces away." I found these online and don't know their source, but he mistakenly thought I identified them as coming from The Moviegoer. The first is a central Percy theme, obviously, but I don't quite have the time to plow through everything Percy wrote or told to an interviewer to find it. Does anyone happen to know what these quotes are from? If so, thanks in advance, Ken -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rhonda_mcdonnell at msn.com Mon Oct 11 12:27:35 2010 From: rhonda_mcdonnell at msn.com (RHONDA MCDONNELL) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 09:27:35 -0700 Subject: [percy-l] The Moviegoer/Percy and Electronic Discourse In-Reply-To: References: <20101011.103016.3784.1.morticia7@juno.com>, Message-ID: That raises an interesting point, Henry. It seems I recall Percy drafting in longhand, though I know that his more "serious" correspondence was typed on a typewriter. In his attempts to address the phenomena of communication, he adopted some of C.S. Peirce's theory. So my musings now: Can we apply Peircean categories of language/communication to computer posts? For instance, if someone posts deep thoughts to a list but no one replies, are they stuck in firstness when they were striving for thirdness? Are unanswered queries, such as the ones in question regarding MG, a refusal at secondness or would that still be failed thirdness? Any thoughts? --Rhonda "You live in a deranged age, more deranged than usual, because in spite of great scientific and technological advances, man has not the faintest idea of who he is or what he is doing." Walker Percy Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 10:46:33 -0500 From: hpmills3 at austin.rr.com To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org Subject: Re: [percy-l] The Moviegoer/Percy and Electronic Discourse Message body Cathy, The confusion should now be resolved. Please send any concerns you may have in the future about any posts directly to me at percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org. I will be glad to address them to everyone?s satisfaction as best as is possible. Thank you for your patience and for understanding the humanness we all bring to electronic discourse. Of course, I believe Percy himself would take keen interest in electronic forms of communication were he writing today, though I don?t know what unique insights he might add. Nikki, any suggestions from your knowledge of his use of the computer? Best, Henry Mills Percy-L Moderator From: Reply-To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 10:30:15 -0400 To: Subject: Re: [percy-l] The Moviegoer Janet: I don't know how old you are, but it seems that you grew up during the generation that needs "instant gratification". Well, this is the fourth time you've sent this email to me in a few days---I don't do "desperate" and I most emphatically don't answer pleas for instant gratification. You obviously have no patience, you have not attached your questions (which you should have done so people can judge whether or not they want to participate), you've not stated whether you're a student, member of a book or movie group, or too lazy to figure out the MOVIEGOER for yourself, and you're bordering on email harassment with your multiple emails. I would have answered your first email had you listed the questions, but then immediately came the barrage of emails and now I'm no longer interested (as I'm sure you've already ticked off a number of other potential participants). Please cease and desist. Cathy (a.k.a morticia7) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Sun, 10 Oct 2010 20:11:53 -0700 (PDT) janet cantor writes: Would someone be willing to answer some questions on the Moviegoer? Thanks, janetcantor37 at yahoo.com (honey) -- An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) -- An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brooks at thedogwood.org Mon Oct 11 20:17:28 2010 From: brooks at thedogwood.org (Brooks Phillips) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 20:17:28 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] Does anyone know the souce of these quotes? In-Reply-To: <5AAE872FC3A847DBB1BB10F188979557@Kenpc> References: <5AAE872FC3A847DBB1BB10F188979557@Kenpc> Message-ID: Ken, The first quotation comes from The Moviegoer. In my edition it appears on page 13 in Chapter 1, Section 1. Note that the full quotation is: "The search is what anyone would undertake if he were not sunk in the > everydayness of his own life. This morning, for example, I felt as if I had > come to myself on a strange island. And what does such a castaway do? Why, > he pokes around the neighborhood and he doesn't miss a trick. > To become aware of the possibility of the search is to be onto something. > Not to be onto something is to be in despair." I am not aware if the quotation exists elsewhere verbatim as in your original message. The second quotation is from Love in the Ruins. In my edition it appears on page 106 as part of July First, Section 5. Best, Brooks On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 2:07 PM, Ken Wilson wrote: > Hello Everyone -- > > I'm a longtime subscriber to this list, and an avid Percy reader since the > early 80's. Upon request I recently sent a friend several of Percy quotes > for his blog, including: > > "The search is what anyone would undertake if he were not sunk in the > everydayness of his own life. To become aware of the possibility of the > search is to be onto something. Not to be onto something is to be in > despair." > > 'We love those who know the worst of us and don't turn their faces away." > > I found these online and don't know their source, but he mistakenly thought > I identified them as coming from The Moviegoer. The first is a central > Percy theme, obviously, but I don't quite have the time to plow > through everything Percy wrote or told to an interviewer to find it. Does > anyone happen to know what these quotes are from? > > If so, thanks in advance, > > Ken > > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ > sign when addressing email) > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lowry.charles at gmail.com Mon Oct 11 15:22:13 2010 From: lowry.charles at gmail.com (Charles Lowry) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 15:22:13 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] Does anyone know the souce of these quotes? In-Reply-To: <5AAE872FC3A847DBB1BB10F188979557@Kenpc> References: <5AAE872FC3A847DBB1BB10F188979557@Kenpc> Message-ID: The first quotation is indeed from *The Moviegoer*, from Binx's description of his state of mind on the bus ride to his aunt's house for lunch on the Wednesday before Ash Wednesday, the onset of the last week of his twenty-ninth year. There is additional text in the novel after the first sentence you quote, and the quotation is completed in the next paragraph. It is on page 13 of the first edition. I don't have the ubiquitous paperback right at hand (there is a contradiction there, isn't there?) so I don't have a page number, but it will be easy to find. I have seen the second quotation everywhere but have never seen in more precisely attributed. I too am curious. Chuck Lowry On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 2:07 PM, Ken Wilson wrote: > Hello Everyone -- > > I'm a longtime subscriber to this list, and an avid Percy reader since the > early 80's. Upon request I recently sent a friend several of Percy quotes > for his blog, including: > > "The search is what anyone would undertake if he were not sunk in the > everydayness of his own life. To become aware of the possibility of the > search is to be onto something. Not to be onto something is to be in > despair." > > 'We love those who know the worst of us and don't turn their faces away." > > I found these online and don't know their source, but he mistakenly thought > I identified them as coming from The Moviegoer. The first is a central > Percy theme, obviously, but I don't quite have the time to plow > through everything Percy wrote or told to an interviewer to find it. Does > anyone happen to know what these quotes are from? > > If so, thanks in advance, > > Ken > > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ > sign when addressing email) > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nikkibar at aol.com Mon Oct 11 16:24:41 2010 From: nikkibar at aol.com (Garic Barranger) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 15:24:41 -0500 Subject: [percy-l] The Moviegoer/Percy and Electronic Discourse In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <171E31E2-5BCB-46F0-9CCE-6FA58D767A40@aol.com> Computer hell!, He wouldn't even go near a typewriter... Nikki On Oct 11, 2010, at 10:46 AM, Henry Mills wrote: > Cathy, > The confusion should now be resolved. Please send any concerns you may have in the future about any posts directly to me at percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org. I will be glad to address them to everyone?s satisfaction as best as is possible. Thank you for your patience and for understanding the humanness we all bring to electronic discourse. > > Of course, I believe Percy himself would take keen interest in electronic forms of communication were he writing today, though I don?t know what unique insights he might add. Nikki, any suggestions from your knowledge of his use of the computer? > > Best, > Henry Mills > Percy-L Moderator > > > From: > Reply-To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" > Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 10:30:15 -0400 > To: > Subject: Re: [percy-l] The Moviegoer > > Janet: > > I don't know how old you are, but it seems that you grew up during the generation that needs "instant gratification". Well, this is the fourth time you've sent this email to me in a few days---I don't do "desperate" and I most emphatically don't answer pleas for instant gratification. > > You obviously have no patience, you have not attached your questions (which you should have done so people can judge whether or not they want to participate), you've not stated whether you're a student, member of a book or movie group, or too lazy to figure out the MOVIEGOER for yourself, and you're bordering on email harassment with your multiple emails. I would have answered your first email had you listed the questions, but then immediately came the barrage of emails and now I'm no longer interested (as I'm sure you've already ticked off a number of other potential participants). Please cease and desist. > > Cathy (a.k.a morticia7) > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > On Sun, 10 Oct 2010 20:11:53 -0700 (PDT) janet cantor writes: >> >> >> >>> >>> >>> Would someone be willing to answer some questions on the Moviegoer? >>> Thanks, >>> janetcantor37 at yahoo.com >>> (honey) >>> >> >> >> > > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From janetcantor37 at yahoo.com Tue Oct 12 04:48:31 2010 From: janetcantor37 at yahoo.com (janet cantor) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 01:48:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [percy-l] The Moviegoer - Please ignore my previous posts Message-ID: <34801.9363.qm@web63607.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Dear Percy-L, I am a 72 year old general reader and have numerous questions after completing the Moviegoer. Please overlook my earlier posts to the list as I am new to listservs in general. Please allow me to tell you of my experience with the book. I read and reread the book. I led a discussion of it in my book group. My reading was absolutely different from theirs. This stunned me. I found the book funny, endearing and uplifting. They found it depressing and hopeless. I include below two items I?d like to present to the list: 1) a personal review I wrote about the MG for Amazon, and 2) the questions I still have after exploring my thoughts about the book in my review. ?I intend to edit my review after I have reread the book in the future and my thoughts have become more clear. I am not a scholar, merely a reader. My overall question concerns that the book was written in the 50's. It seems to me that it is not correct to read it narrowly from the perspective of current attitudes. Please forgive any naivete I may bring to my reading as present in my review. I will come back to the book in about a year and see if I agree with myself. Rest assured any help or responses to this post that anyone can give me will be decidedly appreciated. Cheers, Janet Cantor MY PERSONAL AMAZON REVIEW A masterpiece, September 25, 2010 ? SPOILER ALERT. Do not read this review until after you have finished the book and considered it for yourself. If fifteen people read and reviewed The Moviegoer, they could create fifteen different descriptions of it. If one person read it a year later, he could write a completely different review of it from the one he wrote the year before. It all depends on what is emphasized, the southernness, New Orleans, the story of ancestries, the blacks and whites or the relationship of the story to Kierkegard. There are so many aspects of the novel to consider. This is a funny book, an endearing book. The writing is gasp inducing gorgeous. This is a book of its time, post Becket, the existentialists, and the absurdists. It follows a half century of the realization of the great scale of the horror man is capable of perpetrating on his fellow men. Salinger has been writing about teenage angst. Yet, while it is so relevant to the late nineteen fifties, Binx's story finds resonance to this day. It is ?funny to read how Binx plots to make his secretary fall in love with him. The descriptions of movies and their use to him and how he makes a movie house more real are wonderful. Look on page 216 for a line that gives the reader pause on the subject of the title. ?Binx's elaborate descriptions of the components of his search make up a good portion of the story. Yet every time he is with Aunt Emily, he either can't talk about it or it seems to be smaller in importance. And in the face of Aunt Emily's big rant at him in part five, he understands that he is finished with his search. His search, he tells us, is to forestall the everydayness; in his head he criticizes other people who are satisfied with ordinary lives. All the while he is thinking and working out the details of his search, he is carrying out normal activity and conversation, and no one having discourse with him, knows about his interior life. The only one who knows it all is his fellow mentally discomfited, Kate. In the end, he will accept everydayness as he takes care of Kate. It is a great theme in a lot of literature, the concept of coming home. Ulysses, The Wizard of Oz, Pippin, the musical, where he realizes he is not extraordinary and will settle as man, woman, child in an every day existence, and Candide, who after his upsetting adventures will join with his love and just make his garden grow. And so it is here. The epilogue may be one of the most gorgeous things I have ever read. Tender, quiet, accepting; Kate and Binx will make it, I believe. The book is described as an existential novel. What kind of existential protagonist loves his job, loves making money, and goes to great lengths to protect his clients' accounts? What kind of existential character loves others, his half brother, Lonnie and Aunt Emily? He even has a kind of love for minor characters like Mr. Kinsella and the ladies in ticket booths. And Kate and Binx have a kind of love for each other. This book doesn't seem to be an existential novel as much as a rebuke to the existentialists. Walker Percy seems to be saying to them, "Come off it. Get with the program. It's enough already." ?Aunt Emily as she scolds Binx in Part Five represents this. To discuss this book and leave out Aunt Emily is to forget someone central to it all. For this reader she is most important of all for Binx. It is his love of her, he even enjoys it when she scolds him, that keeps him from going off the deep end. And her brilliantly written big rebuke at the end is what saves him from himself. One is reminded of the biblical verse that says now I am become a man and must put away childish things. One is reminded of another biblical verse when the book is over. And now abideth faith, hope and charity (love) but the greatest of these is charity. Lonnie's Faith is pure and perfect. The scenes between Lonnie and Binx are utterly exquisite. Binx couldn't care less about religion, yet his love of Lonnie makes him happy and interested as Lonnie describes his faith to him. And when Lonnie tells Binx he is taking his communion for Binx, that is a spectacular moment. Hope? Is there hope for Binx? I think so and I think Walker Percy thinks so, too. And, as has already been noted, love runs throughout the novel. I don't think this is an existential novel. I think it is a Christian Morality Tale. ??? MY OUTSTANDING QUESTIONS Is the book an existential book, contrary to what I thought? Is Aunt Emily as important to the story as I thought? Is his half brother as important as I thought and are the scenes with him as gorgeous as I found them? Is the book meant to be funny and endearing or depressing? Is the end meant to be uplifting or are they destined for the divorce court in a few months as so many have suggested to me? Here's how I read the end. There was a line in the book when they were in Chicago and Kate declared that she knew how she could live in a big city - if Binx told her what to do. So when he is taking care of his siblings (a repetition of when his aunt comforted him when his brother, Scott, died) and he needs Kate to do his business for him, he tells her what to do. I just loved that. Is Kate simply a bipolar person? Or did Aunt Emily restrict her freedom and self expression so much that she became mad? This last was not my impression. It was what someone suggested to me. I saw no evidence of that. Is that in the book? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lowry.charles at gmail.com Tue Oct 12 08:23:05 2010 From: lowry.charles at gmail.com (Charles Lowry) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 08:23:05 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] The Moviegoer - Please ignore my previous posts In-Reply-To: <34801.9363.qm@web63607.mail.re1.yahoo.com> References: <34801.9363.qm@web63607.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Janet, Perhaps you would be amused or edified (different from informed, I grant) by the views of a similar non-academic general reader who just happens to admire, reread and frequently reflect on the Walker Percy literary corpus. I think your view of the novel is pretty much on target. Your questions, indeed, are more important than the answers they generate, because they provide the jumping off point for consideration not only of The Moviegoer but the human condition more generally. If you ever look at Goodreads, a "general reader" book site that is, I think, fairly popular, you can search for The Moviegoer and find quite a bit of material. Sometimes (I don't know how they arrange these things) my review is the first one to show up, but that should not dissuade you. I'll reprint your questions and offer a few thoughts, although I warn you that I am a salesman, not a professor, author or literary expert. There are many on the list who will have sharper and more focused insights, but I thought I would write a few words because I, too, am a general reader. Enjoy. Chuck Lowry 1. Is the book an existential book, contrary to what I thought? [Well, that is going to depend in large part on what you mean by an existentialist novel. To the extent that existential novels are concerned with alienation and failed connections, yes, I suppose it is an existentialist novel. Where it differs from other existential novels, and where generally "Christian existential" thought (think Gabriel Marcel, Karl Jaspers, Paul Tillich, etc.) differ from Sartre, Camus, Gide, etc., is in the assertion that humans can, consciously or unconsciously, cooperate with what Binx thinks of as "God's importunate grace" to bridge the alienating gap between and among humans.] 2. Is Aunt Emily as important to the story as I thought? [I think that she is, because she represents a very interesting combination of strict traditionalism and freee thinking that are both enemies of the search that Binx is undertaking.] 3. Is his half brother as important as I thought and are the scenes with him as gorgeous as I found them? [They are--again, in my opinion, which is short of infallible--among the most touching and tender I can imagine, all the more so because Binx is not a sentimental kin of guy. Reflective yes, but not sentimental.] 4. Is the book meant to be funny and endearing or depressing? [I never knew Percy, but here is a story of one who did. She recalls telling Percy that she had read the book. Percy asked her straight out if she thought it was funny. He apparently thought it was funny and deliberately wrote it that way. It has its depressing moments, certainly, its frustrating missed connections, but it is very funny in parts, isn't it?] 5. Is the end meant to be uplifting or are they destined for the divorce court in a few months as so many have suggested to me? Here's how I read the end. There was a line in the book when they were in Chicago and Kate declared that she knew how she could live in a big city - if Binx told her what to do. So when he is taking care of his siblings (a repetition of when his aunt comforted him when his brother, Scott, died) and he needs Kate to do his business for him, he tells her what to do. I just loved that. [I don't think you can miss the hopeful ending of the book, the thing that makes it "Christian" rather than hopelessly existential, i.e. with the help of God's importunate grace, alientation is overcome and connections are restored. Do you remember when Kate comes to Binx at 3:00 A.M. toward the end of the book? "Is everything going to be all right?" "Yes." "tell me. Say it." "Everything is going to be all right."] 6. Is Kate simply a bi polar person? Or did Aunt Emily restrict her freedom and self expression so much that she became mad? This last was not my impression. It was what someone suggested to me. I saw no evidence of that. Is that in the book? [I think she is just a bipolar person. Aunt Emily, remember, is not her mother but her stepmother, and their relationship was no worse than Kate's relationships with others.] On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 4:48 AM, janet cantor wrote: > Dear Percy-L, > > I am a 72 year old general reader and have numerous questions after > completing the Moviegoer. Please overlook my earlier posts to the list as I > am new to listservs in general. Please allow me to tell you of my experience > with the book. > > I read and reread the book. I led a discussion of it in my book group. My > reading was absolutely different from theirs. This stunned me. I found the > book funny, endearing and uplifting. They found it depressing and hopeless. > > I include below two items I?d like to present to the list: 1) a personal > review I wrote about the MG for Amazon, and 2) the questions I still have > after exploring my thoughts about the book in my review. I intend to edit > my review after I have reread the book in the future and my thoughts have > become more clear. I am not a scholar, merely a reader. > > My overall question concerns that the book was written in the 50's. It > seems to me that it is not correct to read it narrowly from the perspective > of current attitudes. Please forgive any naivete I may bring to my reading > as present in my review. I will come back to the book in about a year and > see if I agree with myself. > > Rest assured any help or responses to this post that anyone can give me > will be decidedly appreciated. > > Cheers, > Janet Cantor > > > MY PERSONAL AMAZON REVIEW > > *A masterpiece, September 25, 2010 > *SPOILER ALERT. Do not read this review until after you have finished the > book and considered it for yourself. > > If fifteen people read and reviewed The Moviegoer, they could create > fifteen different descriptions of it. If one person read it a year later, he > could write a completely different review of it from the one he wrote the > year before. It all depends on what is emphasized, the southernness, New > Orleans, the story of ancestries, the blacks and whites or the > relationship of the story to Kierkegard. There are so many aspects of the > novel to consider. > This is a funny book, an endearing book. The writing is gasp inducing > gorgeous. > This is a book of its time, post Becket, the existentialists, and the > absurdists. It follows a half century of the realization of the great scale > of the horror man is capable of perpetrating on his fellow men. Salingerhas been writing about teenage > angst. Yet, while it is so relevant to the late nineteen fifties, Binx's > story finds resonance to this day. > It is funny to read how Binx plots to make his secretary fall in love with > him. The descriptions of movies and their use to him and how he makes a > movie house more real are wonderful. Look on page 216 for a line that gives > the reader pause on the subject of the title. > Binx's elaborate descriptions of the components of his search make up a > good portion of the story. Yet every time he is with Aunt Emily, he either > can't talk about it or it seems to be smaller in importance. And in the face > of Aunt Emily's big rant at him in part five, he understands that he is > finished with his search. > His search, he tells us, is to forestall the everydayness; in his head he > criticizes other people who are satisfied with ordinary lives. All the > while he is thinking and working out the details of his search, he is > carrying out normal activity and conversation, and no one having discourse > with him, knows about his interior life. The only one who knows it all is > his fellow mentally discomfited, Kate. In the end, he will accept > everydayness as he takes care of Kate. > It is a great theme in a lot of literature, the concept of coming home. > Ulysses, The Wizard of Oz, Pippin, the musical, where he realizes he is > not extraordinary and will settle as man, woman, child in an every day > existence, and Candide, who after his upsetting adventures will join with > his love and just make his garden grow. And so it is here. The epilogue may > be one of the most gorgeous things I have ever read. Tender, quiet, > accepting; Kate and Binx will make it, I believe. > The book is described as an existential novel. What kind of existential > protagonist loves his job, loves making money, and goes to great lengths to > protect his clients' accounts? What kind of existential character loves > others, his half brother, Lonnie and Aunt Emily? He even has a kind of > love for minor characters like Mr. Kinsella and the ladies in ticket > booths. And Kate and Binx have a kind of love for each other. > This book doesn't seem to be an existential novel as much as a rebuke to > the existentialists. Walker Percy seems to be saying to them, "Come off > it. Get with the program. It's enough already." Aunt Emily as she scolds > Binx in Part Five represents this. > To discuss this book and leave out Aunt Emily is to forget someone central > to it all. For this reader she is most important of all for Binx. It is his > love of her, he even enjoys it when she scolds him, that keeps him from > going off the deep end. And her brilliantly written big rebuke at the end is > what saves him from himself. One is reminded of the biblical verse that says > now I am become a man and must put away childish things. > One is reminded of another biblical verse when the book is over. And now > abideth faith, hope and charity (love) but the greatest of these is charity. > > Lonnie's Faith is pure and perfect. The scenes between Lonnie and Binx are > utterly exquisite. Binx couldn't care less about religion, yet his love of > Lonnie makes him happy and interested as Lonnie describes his faith to him. > And when Lonnie tells Binx he is taking his communion for Binx, that is a > spectacular moment. > Hope? Is there hope for Binx? I think so and I think Walker Percy thinks > so, too. > And, as has already been noted, love runs throughout the novel. > I don't think this is an existential novel. I think it is a Christian > Morality Tale. > > > MY OUTSTANDING QUESTIONS > > 1. Is the book an existential book, contrary to what I thought? > 2. Is Aunt Emily as important to the story as I thought? > 3. Is his half brother as important as I thought and are the scenes > with him as gorgeous as I found them? > 4. Is the book meant to be funny and endearing or depressing? > 5. Is the end meant to be uplifting or are they destined for the > divorce court in a few months as so many have suggested to me? Here's how I > read the end. There was a line in the book when they were in Chicagoand Kate declared that she knew how she could live in a big city - if Binx > told her what to do. So when he is taking care of his siblings (a repetition > of when his aunt comforted him when his brother, Scott, died) and he needs > Kate to do his business for him, he tells her what to do. I just loved that. > > 6. Is Kate simply a bipolar person? Or did Aunt Emily restrict her > freedom and self expression so much that she became mad? This last was not > my impression. It was what someone suggested to me. I saw no evidence of > that. Is that in the book? > > > > > > > > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ > sign when addressing email) > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeriley at uark.edu Tue Oct 12 15:12:56 2010 From: jeriley at uark.edu (John E. Riley) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 19:12:56 +0000 Subject: [percy-l] Percy-L Digest, Vol 78, Issue 5 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Janet: I like your reading of the novel and your questions at the end. And I had to chuckle at your comment that you are "merely a reader." I feel sure that Walker Percy had great respect for his readers--he understood that every writer needs readers; without readers, a writer's work is unfulfilled, exists in a vacuum. As to the question of whether The Moviegoer is an existentialist novel or a "Christian morality tale" as you think, I believe it should be enough to say that it is a novel. The Moviegoer is a well-written novel, certainly, funny in its way, possibly a great novel; If you connected with it at any level then that is enough, in my opinion. The problem with labels and categories is that they create pre-conceived ideas in people's minds. Personally, I would stay far away from any novel described as a "Christian morality tale" and yet the Moviegoer is one of my favorite novels. Aunt Emily is certainly central to the novel. The reason Binx cannot speak of the search around her is that she is so settled in, and persuasive about, her own perspective. She does help in keeping Binx grounded, keeps him from being some Jack Kerouac-like figure constantly roaming the earth. He does not have much in common with Aunt Emily, however. It may be a generational thing. But remember in the epilogue Binx does say that he is "his mother's son after all." I interpret that to mean that he has chosen the catholic faith over Aunt Emily's stoic philosophy. Kate certainly has her problems; she is depressed to the point of being a suicide risk (though she says at one point that the thought of suicide is what keeps her going). She would probably be diagnosed as bi-polar today. Her character reminds me of the book's epigraph, that the precise nature of despair is simply this: it is unaware of being despair (I'm quoting from memory; I believe the saying was Kierkegaard's). Kate is at least self-aware enough to realize that something is seriously wrong. What she can give to Binx is a "built-in bullshit detector" (to paraphrase Hemingway; remember Binx says at one point that he believes in "a good kick in the ass"), while Binx can obviously help Kate with the day-to-day challenges of concrete reality. The beauty of any marriage relationship is that each person potentially has something to give to the other that helps complete that person, make him or her a "better person" for lack of a better phrase. So I see their marriage as on solid footing, though it is obviously an open question regarding their future. Those are my thoughts. I appreciate the fresh perspective you bring with your comments and questions. Best of luck to you, Janet! John Riley Reference & Index Arkansas Mullins Library University of Arkansas Fayetteville, Arkansas, USA ________________________________________ From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] on behalf of percy-l-request at lists.ibiblio.org [percy-l-request at lists.ibiblio.org] Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 3:53 AM To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org Subject: Percy-L Digest, Vol 78, Issue 5 ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 01:48:31 -0700 (PDT) From: janet cantor To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [percy-l] The Moviegoer - Please ignore my previous posts Message-ID: <34801.9363.qm at web63607.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Dear Percy-L, I am a 72 year old general reader and have numerous questions after completing the Moviegoer. Please overlook my earlier posts to the list as I am new to listservs in general. Please allow me to tell you of my experience with the book. I read and reread the book. I led a discussion of it in my book group. My reading was absolutely different from theirs. This stunned me. I found the book funny, endearing and uplifting. They found it depressing and hopeless. I include below two items I?d like to present to the list: 1) a personal review I wrote about the MG for Amazon, and 2) the questions I still have after exploring my thoughts about the book in my review. ?I intend to edit my review after I have reread the book in the future and my thoughts have become more clear. I am not a scholar, merely a reader. My overall question concerns that the book was written in the 50's. It seems to me that it is not correct to read it narrowly from the perspective of current attitudes. Please forgive any naivete I may bring to my reading as present in my review. I will come back to the book in about a year and see if I agree with myself. Rest assured any help or responses to this post that anyone can give me will be decidedly appreciated. Cheers, Janet Cantor MY PERSONAL AMAZON REVIEW A masterpiece, September 25, 2010 ? SPOILER ALERT. Do not read this review until after you have finished the book and considered it for yourself. If fifteen people read and reviewed The Moviegoer, they could create fifteen different descriptions of it. If one person read it a year later, he could write a completely different review of it from the one he wrote the year before. It all depends on what is emphasized, the southernness, New Orleans, the story of ancestries, the blacks and whites or the relationship of the story to Kierkegard. There are so many aspects of the novel to consider. This is a funny book, an endearing book. The writing is gasp inducing gorgeous. This is a book of its time, post Becket, the existentialists, and the absurdists. It follows a half century of the realization of the great scale of the horror man is capable of perpetrating on his fellow men. Salinger has been writing about teenage angst. Yet, while it is so relevant to the late nineteen fifties, Binx's story finds resonance to this day. It is ?funny to read how Binx plots to make his secretary fall in love with him. The descriptions of movies and their use to him and how he makes a movie house more real are wonderful. Look on page 216 for a line that gives the reader pause on the subject of the title. ?Binx's elaborate descriptions of the components of his search make up a good portion of the story. Yet every time he is with Aunt Emily, he either can't talk about it or it seems to be smaller in importance. And in the face of Aunt Emily's big rant at him in part five, he understands that he is finished with his search. His search, he tells us, is to forestall the everydayness; in his head he criticizes other people who are satisfied with ordinary lives. All the while he is thinking and working out the details of his search, he is carrying out normal activity and conversation, and no one having discourse with him, knows about his interior life. The only one who knows it all is his fellow mentally discomfited, Kate. In the end, he will accept everydayness as he takes care of Kate. It is a great theme in a lot of literature, the concept of coming home. Ulysses, The Wizard of Oz, Pippin, the musical, where he realizes he is not extraordinary and will settle as man, woman, child in an every day existence, and Candide, who after his upsetting adventures will join with his love and just make his garden grow. And so it is here. The epilogue may be one of the most gorgeous things I have ever read. Tender, quiet, accepting; Kate and Binx will make it, I believe. The book is described as an existential novel. What kind of existential protagonist loves his job, loves making money, and goes to great lengths to protect his clients' accounts? What kind of existential character loves others, his half brother, Lonnie and Aunt Emily? He even has a kind of love for minor characters like Mr. Kinsella and the ladies in ticket booths. And Kate and Binx have a kind of love for each other. This book doesn't seem to be an existential novel as much as a rebuke to the existentialists. Walker Percy seems to be saying to them, "Come off it. Get with the program. It's enough already." ?Aunt Emily as she scolds Binx in Part Five represents this. To discuss this book and leave out Aunt Emily is to forget someone central to it all. For this reader she is most important of all for Binx. It is his love of her, he even enjoys it when she scolds him, that keeps him from going off the deep end. And her brilliantly written big rebuke at the end is what saves him from himself. One is reminded of the biblical verse that says now I am become a man and must put away childish things. One is reminded of another biblical verse when the book is over. And now abideth faith, hope and charity (love) but the greatest of these is charity. Lonnie's Faith is pure and perfect. The scenes between Lonnie and Binx are utterly exquisite. Binx couldn't care less about religion, yet his love of Lonnie makes him happy and interested as Lonnie describes his faith to him. And when Lonnie tells Binx he is taking his communion for Binx, that is a spectacular moment. Hope? Is there hope for Binx? I think so and I think Walker Percy thinks so, too. And, as has already been noted, love runs throughout the novel. I don't think this is an existential novel. I think it is a Christian Morality Tale. ??? MY OUTSTANDING QUESTIONS Is the book an existential book, contrary to what I thought? Is Aunt Emily as important to the story as I thought? Is his half brother as important as I thought and are the scenes with him as gorgeous as I found them? Is the book meant to be funny and endearing or depressing? Is the end meant to be uplifting or are they destined for the divorce court in a few months as so many have suggested to me? Here's how I read the end. There was a line in the book when they were in Chicago and Kate declared that she knew how she could live in a big city - if Binx told her what to do. So when he is taking care of his siblings (a repetition of when his aunt comforted him when his brother, Scott, died) and he needs Kate to do his business for him, he tells her what to do. I just loved that. Is Kate simply a bipolar person? Or did Aunt Emily restrict her freedom and self expression so much that she became mad? This last was not my impression. It was what someone suggested to me. I saw no evidence of that. Is that in the book? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Percy-L mailing list Percy-L at lists.ibiblio.org http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/percy-l End of Percy-L Digest, Vol 78, Issue 5 ************************************** From janetcantor37 at yahoo.com Tue Oct 12 17:45:55 2010 From: janetcantor37 at yahoo.com (janet cantor) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 14:45:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [percy-l] Percy-L Digest, Vol 78, Issue 5 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <403839.24708.qm@web63607.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Thank you, John, for these comments. They are valuable in keeping up the analysis of The Moviegoer. I especially like that you say you would keep away from anything described as a Christian morality tale, yet you consider this one of your favorite novels; and I liked your idea that a book is enough if it is a well written novel, which this one certainly is. But best of all I value your insight? that we should "...remember in the epilogue Binx does say that he is "his mother's son after all."? I interpret that to mean that he has chosen the catholic faith over Aunt Emily's stoic philosophy." That is excellent. Janet --- On Tue, 10/12/10, John E. Riley wrote: From: John E. Riley Subject: Re: [percy-l] Percy-L Digest, Vol 78, Issue 5 To: "percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org" Cc: "John E. Riley" Date: Tuesday, October 12, 2010, 3:12 PM Janet: I like your reading of the novel and your questions at the end.? And I had to chuckle at your comment that you are "merely a reader."? I feel sure that Walker Percy had great respect for his readers--he understood that every writer needs readers; without readers, a writer's work is unfulfilled, exists in a vacuum. As to the question of whether The Moviegoer is an existentialist novel or a "Christian morality tale" as you think, I believe it should be enough to say that it is a novel. The Moviegoer is a well-written novel, certainly, funny in its way, possibly a great novel; If you connected with it at any level then that is enough, in my opinion.? The problem with labels and categories is that they create pre-conceived ideas in people's minds.? Personally, I would stay far away from any novel described as a "Christian morality tale" and yet the Moviegoer is one of my favorite novels. Aunt Emily is certainly central to the novel.? The reason Binx cannot speak of the search around her is that she is so settled in, and persuasive about, her own perspective.? She does help in keeping Binx grounded, keeps him from being some Jack Kerouac-like figure constantly roaming the earth.? He does not have much in common with Aunt Emily, however.? It may be a generational thing.? But remember in the epilogue Binx does say that he is "his mother's son after all."? I interpret that to mean that he has chosen the catholic faith over Aunt Emily's stoic philosophy. Kate certainly has her problems; she is depressed to the point of being a suicide risk (though she says at one point that the thought of suicide is what keeps her going).? She would probably be diagnosed as bi-polar today.? Her character reminds me of the book's epigraph, that the precise nature of despair is simply this: it is unaware of being despair (I'm quoting from memory; I believe the saying was Kierkegaard's).? Kate is at least self-aware enough to realize that something is seriously wrong.? What she can give to Binx is a "built-in bullshit detector" (to paraphrase Hemingway; remember Binx says at one point that he believes in "a good kick in the ass"), while Binx can obviously help Kate with the day-to-day challenges of concrete reality. The beauty of any marriage relationship is that each person potentially has something to give to the other that helps complete that person, make him or her a "better person" for lack of a better phrase.? So I see their marriage as on solid footing, though it is obviously an open question regarding their future. Those are my thoughts.? I appreciate the fresh perspective you bring with your comments and questions. Best of luck to you, Janet! John Riley Reference & Index Arkansas Mullins Library University of Arkansas Fayetteville, Arkansas, USA ________________________________________ From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] on behalf of percy-l-request at lists.ibiblio.org [percy-l-request at lists.ibiblio.org] Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 3:53 AM To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org Subject: Percy-L Digest, Vol 78, Issue 5 ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 01:48:31 -0700 (PDT) From: janet cantor To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [percy-l] The Moviegoer - Please ignore my previous posts Message-ID: <34801.9363.qm at web63607.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Dear Percy-L, I am a 72 year old general reader and have numerous questions after completing the Moviegoer. Please overlook my earlier posts to the list as I am new to listservs in general. Please allow me to tell you of my experience with the book. I read and reread the book. I led a discussion of it in my book group. My reading was absolutely different from theirs. This stunned me. I found the book funny, endearing and uplifting. They found it depressing and hopeless. I include below two items I?d like to present to the list: 1) a personal review I wrote about the MG for Amazon, and 2) the questions I still have after exploring my thoughts about the book in my review. ?I intend to edit my review after I have reread the book in the future and my thoughts have become more clear. I am not a scholar, merely a reader. My overall question concerns that the book was written in the 50's. It seems to me that it is not correct to read it narrowly from the perspective of current attitudes. Please forgive any naivete I may bring to my reading as present in my review. I will come back to the book in about a year and see if I agree with myself. Rest assured any help or responses to this post that anyone can give me will be decidedly appreciated. Cheers, Janet Cantor MY PERSONAL AMAZON REVIEW A masterpiece, September 25, 2010 ? SPOILER ALERT. Do not read this review until after you have finished the book and considered it for yourself. If fifteen people read and reviewed The Moviegoer, they could create fifteen different descriptions of it. If one person read it a year later, he could write a completely different review of it from the one he wrote the year before. It all depends on what is emphasized, the southernness, New Orleans, the story of ancestries, the blacks and whites or the relationship of the story to Kierkegard. There are so many aspects of the novel to consider. This is a funny book, an endearing book. The writing is gasp inducing gorgeous. This is a book of its time, post Becket, the existentialists, and the absurdists. It follows a half century of the realization of the great scale of the horror man is capable of perpetrating on his fellow men. Salinger has been writing about teenage angst. Yet, while it is so relevant to the late nineteen fifties, Binx's story finds resonance to this day. It is ?funny to read how Binx plots to make his secretary fall in love with him. The descriptions of movies and their use to him and how he makes a movie house more real are wonderful. Look on page 216 for a line that gives the reader pause on the subject of the title. ?Binx's elaborate descriptions of the components of his search make up a good portion of the story. Yet every time he is with Aunt Emily, he either can't talk about it or it seems to be smaller in importance. And in the face of Aunt Emily's big rant at him in part five, he understands that he is finished with his search. His search, he tells us, is to forestall the everydayness; in his head he criticizes other people who are satisfied with ordinary lives. All the while he is thinking and working out the details of his search, he is carrying out normal activity and conversation, and no one having discourse with him, knows about his interior life. The only one who knows it all is his fellow mentally discomfited, Kate. In the end, he will accept everydayness as he takes care of Kate. It is a great theme in a lot of literature, the concept of coming home. Ulysses, The Wizard of Oz, Pippin, the musical, where he realizes he is not extraordinary and will settle as man, woman, child in an every day existence, and Candide, who after his upsetting adventures will join with his love and just make his garden grow. And so it is here. The epilogue may be one of the most gorgeous things I have ever read. Tender, quiet, accepting; Kate and Binx will make it, I believe. The book is described as an existential novel. What kind of existential protagonist loves his job, loves making money, and goes to great lengths to protect his clients' accounts? What kind of existential character loves others, his half brother, Lonnie and Aunt Emily? He even has a kind of love for minor characters like Mr. Kinsella and the ladies in ticket booths. And Kate and Binx have a kind of love for each other. This book doesn't seem to be an existential novel as much as a rebuke to the existentialists. Walker Percy seems to be saying to them, "Come off it. Get with the program. It's enough already." ?Aunt Emily as she scolds Binx in Part Five represents this. To discuss this book and leave out Aunt Emily is to forget someone central to it all. For this reader she is most important of all for Binx. It is his love of her, he even enjoys it when she scolds him, that keeps him from going off the deep end. And her brilliantly written big rebuke at the end is what saves him from himself. One is reminded of the biblical verse that says now I am become a man and must put away childish things. One is reminded of another biblical verse when the book is over. And now abideth faith, hope and charity (love) but the greatest of these is charity. Lonnie's Faith is pure and perfect. The scenes between Lonnie and Binx are utterly exquisite. Binx couldn't care less about religion, yet his love of Lonnie makes him happy and interested as Lonnie describes his faith to him. And when Lonnie tells Binx he is taking his communion for Binx, that is a spectacular moment. Hope? Is there hope for Binx? I think so and I think Walker Percy thinks so, too. And, as has already been noted, love runs throughout the novel. I don't think this is an existential novel. I think it is a Christian Morality Tale. ??? MY OUTSTANDING QUESTIONS Is the book an existential book, contrary to what I thought? Is Aunt Emily as important to the story as I thought? Is his half brother as important as I thought and are the scenes with him as gorgeous as I found them? Is the book meant to be funny and endearing or depressing? Is the end meant to be uplifting or are they destined for the divorce court in a few months as so many have suggested to me? Here's how I read the end. There was a line in the book when they were in Chicago and Kate declared that she knew how she could live in a big city - if Binx told her what to do. So when he is taking care of his siblings (a repetition of when his aunt comforted him when his brother, Scott, died) and he needs Kate to do his business for him, he tells her what to do. I just loved that. Is Kate simply a bipolar person? Or did Aunt Emily restrict her freedom and self expression so much that she became mad? This last was not my impression. It was what someone suggested to me. I saw no evidence of that. Is that in the book? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Percy-L mailing list Percy-L at lists.ibiblio.org http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/percy-l End of Percy-L Digest, Vol 78, Issue 5 ************************************** -- An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wriddick at usa.net Wed Oct 13 12:59:10 2010 From: wriddick at usa.net (Wade Riddick) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 10:59:10 -0600 Subject: [percy-l] Delayed gratification Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 877 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jeriley at uark.edu Wed Oct 13 17:18:56 2010 From: jeriley at uark.edu (John E. Riley) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 21:18:56 +0000 Subject: [percy-l] The Moviegoer Message-ID: Janet: Thank you for the compliment-- I'm glad you found the comments helpful. And thank you for kick-starting a discussion on The Moviegoer, which remains my favorite Percy novel, followed closely by The Last Gentleman, Love in the Ruins and Lancelot. Some of the later novels are probably better as novels (i.e. works of art), but something about the way Percy handled the first-person narrative voice in The Moviegoer connected with me when I first read it, and still does. Are you familiar with the story of how the great writer A.J. Liebling "discovered" The Moviegoer while in New Orleans researching Huey Long? Liebling's enthusiasm for the novel went a long way toward getting The MG nominated for--and winning--the National Book Award in 1962. It's a great story (see Jay Tolson's biography). Luck never hurt, even for Walker Percy! Cheers, John Riley Reference & Index Arkansas Mullins Library University of Arkansas Fayetteville, Arkansas, USA ________________________________________ From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] on behalf of percy-l-request at lists.ibiblio.org [percy-l-request at lists.ibiblio.org] Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2010 12:25 PM To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org Subject: Percy-L Digest, Vol 78, Issue 7 Send Percy-L mailing list submissions to percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/percy-l or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to percy-l-request at lists.ibiblio.org You can reach the person managing the list at percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Percy-L digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Percy-L Digest, Vol 78, Issue 5 (janet cantor) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 14:45:55 -0700 (PDT) From: janet cantor To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" Subject: Re: [percy-l] Percy-L Digest, Vol 78, Issue 5 Message-ID: <403839.24708.qm at web63607.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Thank you, John, for these comments. They are valuable in keeping up the analysis of The Moviegoer. I especially like that you say you would keep away from anything described as a Christian morality tale, yet you consider this one of your favorite novels; and I liked your idea that a book is enough if it is a well written novel, which this one certainly is. But best of all I value your insight? that we should "...remember in the epilogue Binx does say that he is "his mother's son after all."? I interpret that to mean that he has chosen the catholic faith over Aunt Emily's stoic philosophy." That is excellent. Janet --- On Tue, 10/12/10, John E. Riley wrote: From: John E. Riley Subject: Re: [percy-l] Percy-L Digest, Vol 78, Issue 5 To: "percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org" Cc: "John E. Riley" Date: Tuesday, October 12, 2010, 3:12 PM Janet: I like your reading of the novel and your questions at the end.? And I had to chuckle at your comment that you are "merely a reader."? I feel sure that Walker Percy had great respect for his readers--he understood that every writer needs readers; without readers, a writer's work is unfulfilled, exists in a vacuum. As to the question of whether The Moviegoer is an existentialist novel or a "Christian morality tale" as you think, I believe it should be enough to say that it is a novel. The Moviegoer is a well-written novel, certainly, funny in its way, possibly a great novel; If you connected with it at any level then that is enough, in my opinion.? The problem with labels and categories is that they create pre-conceived ideas in people's minds.? Personally, I would stay far away from any novel described as a "Christian morality tale" and yet the Moviegoer is one of my favorite novels. Aunt Emily is certainly central to the novel.? The reason Binx cannot speak of the search around her is that she is so settled in, and persuasive about, her own perspective.? She does help in keeping Binx grounded, keeps him from being some Jack Kerouac-like figure constantly roaming the earth.? He does not have much in common with Aunt Emily, however.? It may be a generational thing.? But remember in the epilogue Binx does say that he is "his mother's son after all."? I interpret that to mean that he has chosen the catholic faith over Aunt Emily's stoic philosophy. Kate certainly has her problems; she is depressed to the point of being a suicide risk (though she says at one point that the thought of suicide is what keeps her going).? She would probably be diagnosed as bi-polar today.? Her character reminds me of the book's epigraph, that the precise nature of despair is simply this: it is unaware of being despair (I'm quoting from memory; I believe the saying was Kierkegaard's).? Kate is at least self-aware enough to realize that something is seriously wrong.? What she can give to Binx is a "built-in bullshit detector" (to paraphrase Hemingway; remember Binx says at one point that he believes in "a good kick in the ass"), while Binx can obviously help Kate with the day-to-day challenges of concrete reality. The beauty of any marriage relationship is that each person potentially has something to give to the other that helps complete that person, make him or her a "better person" for lack of a better phrase.? So I see their marriage as on solid footing, though it is obviously an open question regarding their future. Those are my thoughts.? I appreciate the fresh perspective you bring with your comments and questions. Best of luck to you, Janet! John Riley Reference & Index Arkansas Mullins Library University of Arkansas Fayetteville, Arkansas, USA ________________________________________ From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] on behalf of percy-l-request at lists.ibiblio.org [percy-l-request at lists.ibiblio.org] Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 3:53 AM To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org Subject: Percy-L Digest, Vol 78, Issue 5 ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 01:48:31 -0700 (PDT) From: janet cantor To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [percy-l] The Moviegoer - Please ignore my previous posts Message-ID: <34801.9363.qm at web63607.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Dear Percy-L, I am a 72 year old general reader and have numerous questions after completing the Moviegoer. Please overlook my earlier posts to the list as I am new to listservs in general. Please allow me to tell you of my experience with the book. I read and reread the book. I led a discussion of it in my book group. My reading was absolutely different from theirs. This stunned me. I found the book funny, endearing and uplifting. They found it depressing and hopeless. I include below two items I?d like to present to the list: 1) a personal review I wrote about the MG for Amazon, and 2) the questions I still have after exploring my thoughts about the book in my review. ?I intend to edit my review after I have reread the book in the future and my thoughts have become more clear. I am not a scholar, merely a reader. My overall question concerns that the book was written in the 50's. It seems to me that it is not correct to read it narrowly from the perspective of current attitudes. Please forgive any naivete I may bring to my reading as present in my review. I will come back to the book in about a year and see if I agree with myself. Rest assured any help or responses to this post that anyone can give me will be decidedly appreciated. Cheers, Janet Cantor MY PERSONAL AMAZON REVIEW A masterpiece, September 25, 2010 ? SPOILER ALERT. Do not read this review until after you have finished the book and considered it for yourself. If fifteen people read and reviewed The Moviegoer, they could create fifteen different descriptions of it. If one person read it a year later, he could write a completely different review of it from the one he wrote the year before. It all depends on what is emphasized, the southernness, New Orleans, the story of ancestries, the blacks and whites or the relationship of the story to Kierkegard. There are so many aspects of the novel to consider. This is a funny book, an endearing book. The writing is gasp inducing gorgeous. This is a book of its time, post Becket, the existentialists, and the absurdists. It follows a half century of the realization of the great scale of the horror man is capable of perpetrating on his fellow men. Salinger has been writing about teenage angst. Yet, while it is so relevant to the late nineteen fifties, Binx's story finds resonance to this day. It is ?funny to read how Binx plots to make his secretary fall in love with him. The descriptions of movies and their use to him and how he makes a movie house more real are wonderful. Look on page 216 for a line that gives the reader pause on the subject of the title. ?Binx's elaborate descriptions of the components of his search make up a good portion of the story. Yet every time he is with Aunt Emily, he either can't talk about it or it seems to be smaller in importance. And in the face of Aunt Emily's big rant at him in part five, he understands that he is finished with his search. His search, he tells us, is to forestall the everydayness; in his head he criticizes other people who are satisfied with ordinary lives. All the while he is thinking and working out the details of his search, he is carrying out normal activity and conversation, and no one having discourse with him, knows about his interior life. The only one who knows it all is his fellow mentally discomfited, Kate. In the end, he will accept everydayness as he takes care of Kate. It is a great theme in a lot of literature, the concept of coming home. Ulysses, The Wizard of Oz, Pippin, the musical, where he realizes he is not extraordinary and will settle as man, woman, child in an every day existence, and Candide, who after his upsetting adventures will join with his love and just make his garden grow. And so it is here. The epilogue may be one of the most gorgeous things I have ever read. Tender, quiet, accepting; Kate and Binx will make it, I believe. The book is described as an existential novel. What kind of existential protagonist loves his job, loves making money, and goes to great lengths to protect his clients' accounts? What kind of existential character loves others, his half brother, Lonnie and Aunt Emily? He even has a kind of love for minor characters like Mr. Kinsella and the ladies in ticket booths. And Kate and Binx have a kind of love for each other. This book doesn't seem to be an existential novel as much as a rebuke to the existentialists. Walker Percy seems to be saying to them, "Come off it. Get with the program. It's enough already." ?Aunt Emily as she scolds Binx in Part Five represents this. To discuss this book and leave out Aunt Emily is to forget someone central to it all. For this reader she is most important of all for Binx. It is his love of her, he even enjoys it when she scolds him, that keeps him from going off the deep end. And her brilliantly written big rebuke at the end is what saves him from himself. One is reminded of the biblical verse that says now I am become a man and must put away childish things. One is reminded of another biblical verse when the book is over. And now abideth faith, hope and charity (love) but the greatest of these is charity. Lonnie's Faith is pure and perfect. The scenes between Lonnie and Binx are utterly exquisite. Binx couldn't care less about religion, yet his love of Lonnie makes him happy and interested as Lonnie describes his faith to him. And when Lonnie tells Binx he is taking his communion for Binx, that is a spectacular moment. Hope? Is there hope for Binx? I think so and I think Walker Percy thinks so, too. And, as has already been noted, love runs throughout the novel. I don't think this is an existential novel. I think it is a Christian Morality Tale. ??? MY OUTSTANDING QUESTIONS Is the book an existential book, contrary to what I thought? Is Aunt Emily as important to the story as I thought? Is his half brother as important as I thought and are the scenes with him as gorgeous as I found them? Is the book meant to be funny and endearing or depressing? Is the end meant to be uplifting or are they destined for the divorce court in a few months as so many have suggested to me? Here's how I read the end. There was a line in the book when they were in Chicago and Kate declared that she knew how she could live in a big city - if Binx told her what to do. So when he is taking care of his siblings (a repetition of when his aunt comforted him when his brother, Scott, died) and he needs Kate to do his business for him, he tells her what to do. I just loved that. Is Kate simply a bipolar person? Or did Aunt Emily restrict her freedom and self expression so much that she became mad? This last was not my impression. It was what someone suggested to me. I saw no evidence of that. Is that in the book? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Percy-L mailing list Percy-L at lists.ibiblio.org http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/percy-l End of Percy-L Digest, Vol 78, Issue 5 ************************************** -- An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Percy-L mailing list Percy-L at lists.ibiblio.org http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/percy-l End of Percy-L Digest, Vol 78, Issue 7 ************************************** From rhonda_mcdonnell at msn.com Thu Oct 14 00:10:01 2010 From: rhonda_mcdonnell at msn.com (RHONDA MCDONNELL) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 21:10:01 -0700 Subject: [percy-l] The Moviegoer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Janet, thanks for your questions. I appreciated the succinctness of your comment, "This is a book of its time, post Becket, the existentialists, and the absurdists," for in that comment you gesture toward the answer of one of your own questions. Is the novel an existential book? Yes, Percy himself said that he intended it that way. Remember Binx's memory of becoming aware of his own hand while in Korea? He awakened to his own existence, something which was repeated in his post-military life and started him on his search. He is searching for a meaningful life, recognizing that most around him are not awake to their own existence. Instead, they are like the bourgeoisie and the humanists that Sartre mocks in Nausea. The difference, as my listmates have already pointed out is that Percy's existentialism is a Christian existentialism. But, as Binx says, he refuses to be edifying. He does, however, say that he will help others along their way. And in the scene with his siblings, he tells them the truth, as he always does. So when Therese (wasn't it her?) asks if Lonnie will be able to waterski in heaven and Binx answers yes, he is reaffirming their faith and the promise of the resurrection. That scene, by the way, was one that Percy said was an intentional nod to Dostoyevsky's The Brothers Karamozov, when the children all cheer for Alyosha. I too find the book hilarious--funnier every time I read it. I love that he calls the dog Rosebud. I love the description of the scientists as freckled brontosauruses. I love when Binx reflects that every time his aunt has a talk with him, he has to find a girl. His "This I Believe" bit cracks me up. And his dryness when he comments that his uncle is no Cato. I could go on and on, but you get the point. The epigraph should, I think, be understood in the context Kierkegaard placed it in. His The Sickness Unto Death ultimately defined despair as being out of the presence of God. In a later novel, Percy explains it as a homesickness for a home we don't realize we miss. But Binx is onto it, and that is what he is searching for. You wrote "he is carrying out normal activity and conversation, and no one having discourse with him, knows about his interior life. The only one who knows it all is his fellow mentally discomfited, Kate. In the end, he will accept everydayness as he takes care of Kate." I respectfully disagree. I see him like Kierkegaard's religious man, who was indistinguishable from his fellow citizens because the movement to the religious is internal. Rather than accepting everydayness, rather than choosing the Little Way, he has taken the absurd leap of faith that belief in God demands. One last thing, I think the enjoyment of the job, the secretaries, the movies, the library card, etc, is all an elaborate pose that he drops when he moves to a more religious way of thinking and seeing the world. In the epilogue, he says he doesn't go to the movies any more. --Rhonda "You live in a deranged age, more deranged than usual, because in spite of great scientific and technological advances, man has not the faintest idea of who he is or what he is doing." Walker Percy > From: jeriley at uark.edu > To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org > Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 21:18:56 +0000 > Subject: Re: [percy-l] The Moviegoer > > Janet: > > Thank you for the compliment-- I'm glad you found the comments helpful. And thank you for kick-starting a discussion on The Moviegoer, > which remains my favorite Percy novel, followed closely by The Last Gentleman, Love in the Ruins and Lancelot. Some of the later novels are > probably better as novels (i.e. works of art), but something about the way Percy handled the first-person narrative voice in The Moviegoer > connected with me when I first read it, and still does. > Are you familiar with the story of how the great writer A.J. Liebling "discovered" The Moviegoer while in New Orleans researching Huey > Long? Liebling's enthusiasm for the novel went a long way toward getting The MG nominated for--and winning--the National Book Award in 1962. > It's a great story (see Jay Tolson's biography). Luck never hurt, even for Walker Percy! > > Cheers, > > John Riley > Reference & Index Arkansas > Mullins Library > University of Arkansas > Fayetteville, Arkansas, USA > ________________________________________ > From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] on behalf of percy-l-request at lists.ibiblio.org [percy-l-request at lists.ibiblio.org] > Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2010 12:25 PM > To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: Percy-L Digest, Vol 78, Issue 7 > > Send Percy-L mailing list submissions to > percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/percy-l > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > percy-l-request at lists.ibiblio.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Percy-L digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Percy-L Digest, Vol 78, Issue 5 (janet cantor) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 14:45:55 -0700 (PDT) > From: janet cantor > To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" > > Subject: Re: [percy-l] Percy-L Digest, Vol 78, Issue 5 > Message-ID: <403839.24708.qm at web63607.mail.re1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Thank you, John, for these comments. They are valuable in keeping up the analysis of The Moviegoer. I especially like that you say you would keep away from anything described as a Christian morality tale, yet you consider this one of your favorite novels; and I liked your idea that a book is enough if it is a well written novel, which this one certainly is. > But best of all I value your insight? that we should "...remember in the epilogue Binx does say that he is "his mother's son after all."? I interpret that to mean that he has chosen the catholic faith over Aunt Emily's stoic philosophy." > That is excellent. > Janet > > --- On Tue, 10/12/10, John E. Riley wrote: > > From: John E. Riley > Subject: Re: [percy-l] Percy-L Digest, Vol 78, Issue 5 > To: "percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org" > Cc: "John E. Riley" > Date: Tuesday, October 12, 2010, 3:12 PM > > Janet: > > I like your reading of the novel and your questions at the end.? And I had to chuckle at your comment that > you are "merely a reader."? I feel sure that Walker Percy had great respect for his readers--he understood that > every writer needs readers; without readers, a writer's work is unfulfilled, exists in a vacuum. > > As to the question of whether The Moviegoer is an existentialist novel or a "Christian morality tale" as you think, > I believe it should be enough to say that it is a novel. The Moviegoer is a well-written novel, certainly, funny in its way, possibly a great novel; > If you connected with it at any level then that is enough, in my opinion.? The problem with labels and categories > is that they create pre-conceived ideas in people's minds.? Personally, I would stay far away from any novel described as > a "Christian morality tale" and yet the Moviegoer is one of my favorite novels. > > Aunt Emily is certainly central to the novel.? The reason Binx cannot speak of the search around her is that she > is so settled in, and persuasive about, her own perspective.? She does help in keeping Binx grounded, keeps him > from being some Jack Kerouac-like figure constantly roaming the earth.? He does not have much in common with Aunt > Emily, however.? It may be a generational thing.? But remember in the epilogue Binx does say that he is "his mother's son > after all."? I interpret that to mean that he has chosen the catholic faith over Aunt Emily's stoic philosophy. > > Kate certainly has her problems; she is depressed to the point of being a suicide risk (though she says at one point > that the thought of suicide is what keeps her going).? She would probably be diagnosed as bi-polar today.? Her > character reminds me of the book's epigraph, that the precise nature of despair is simply this: it is unaware of > being despair (I'm quoting from memory; I believe the saying was Kierkegaard's).? Kate is at least self-aware > enough to realize that something is seriously wrong.? What she can give to Binx is a "built-in bullshit detector" > (to paraphrase Hemingway; remember Binx says at one point that he believes in "a good kick in the ass"), > while Binx can obviously help Kate with the day-to-day challenges of concrete reality. > The beauty of any marriage relationship is that each person potentially has something to give to the other that helps complete > that person, make him or her a "better person" for lack of a better phrase.? So I see their marriage as on solid footing, > though it is obviously an open question regarding their future. > > Those are my thoughts.? I appreciate the fresh perspective you bring with your comments and questions. > Best of luck to you, Janet! > > John Riley > Reference & Index Arkansas > Mullins Library > University of Arkansas > Fayetteville, Arkansas, USA > ________________________________________ > From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] on behalf of percy-l-request at lists.ibiblio.org [percy-l-request at lists.ibiblio.org] > Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 3:53 AM > To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: Percy-L Digest, Vol 78, Issue 5 > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 01:48:31 -0700 (PDT) > From: janet cantor > To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: [percy-l] The Moviegoer - Please ignore my previous posts > Message-ID: <34801.9363.qm at web63607.mail.re1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Dear Percy-L, > > > > I am a 72 year old general reader and have numerous questions after > completing the Moviegoer. Please overlook my earlier posts to the list > as I am new to listservs in general. Please allow me to tell you of my > experience with the book. > > > > I read and reread the book. I led a discussion of it in my book group. > My reading was absolutely different from theirs. This stunned me. I > found the book funny, endearing and uplifting. They found it depressing > and hopeless. > > > > I include below two items I?d like to present to the list: 1) a personal > review I wrote about the MG for Amazon, and 2) the questions I still > have after exploring my thoughts about the book in my review. ?I intend > to edit my review after I have reread the book in the future and my > thoughts have become more clear. I am not a scholar, merely a reader. > > > > My overall question concerns that the book was written in the 50's. It > seems to me that it is not correct to read it narrowly from the > perspective of current attitudes. Please forgive any naivete I may bring > to my reading as present in my review. I will come back to the book in > about a year and see if I agree with myself. > > > > Rest assured any help or responses to this post that anyone can give me will be decidedly appreciated. > > > > Cheers, > > Janet Cantor > > > > > > MY PERSONAL AMAZON REVIEW > > A masterpiece, September 25, 2010 ? > > SPOILER ALERT. Do not read this review until after you have finished the book and considered it for yourself. > > > > If fifteen people read and reviewed The Moviegoer, > they could create fifteen different descriptions of it. If one person > read it a year later, he could write a completely different review of it > from the one he wrote the year before. It all depends on what is > emphasized, the southernness, New Orleans, > the story of ancestries, the blacks and whites or the relationship of > the story to Kierkegard. There are so many aspects of the novel to > consider. > > This is a funny book, an endearing book. The writing is gasp inducing gorgeous. > > This is a book of its time, post Becket, the existentialists, and the > absurdists. It follows a half century of the realization of the great > scale of the horror man is capable of perpetrating on his fellow men. Salinger has been writing about teenage angst. Yet, while it is so relevant to the late nineteen fifties, Binx's story finds resonance to this day. > > It is ?funny to read how Binx plots to make his secretary fall in love > with him. The descriptions of movies and their use to him and how he > makes a movie house more real are wonderful. Look on page 216 for a line > that gives the reader pause on the subject of the title. > > ?Binx's elaborate descriptions of the components of his search make up a > good portion of the story. Yet every time he is with Aunt Emily, he > either can't talk about it or it seems to be smaller in importance. And > in the face of Aunt Emily's big rant at him in part five, he understands > that he is finished with his search. > > His search, he tells us, is to forestall the everydayness; in his head he criticizes other people who are satisfied with ordinary lives. > All the while he is thinking and working out the details of his search, > he is carrying out normal activity and conversation, and no one having > discourse with him, knows about his interior life. The only one who > knows it all is his fellow mentally discomfited, Kate. In the end, he > will accept everydayness as he takes care of Kate. > > It is a great theme in a lot of literature, the concept of coming home. Ulysses, The Wizard of Oz, > Pippin, the musical, where he realizes he is not extraordinary and will > settle as man, woman, child in an every day existence, and Candide, who > after his upsetting adventures will join with his love and just make > his garden grow. And so it is here. The epilogue may be one of the most > gorgeous things I have ever read. Tender, quiet, accepting; Kate and > Binx will make it, I believe. > > The book is described as an existential novel. What kind of existential > protagonist loves his job, loves making money, and goes to great lengths > to protect his clients' accounts? What kind of existential character > loves others, his half brother, Lonnie and Aunt Emily? He even has a kind of love for minor characters like Mr. Kinsella and the ladies in ticket booths. And Kate and Binx have a kind of love for each other. > > This book doesn't seem to be an existential novel as much as a rebuke to the existentialists. Walker Percy > seems to be saying to them, "Come off it. Get with the program. It's > enough already." ?Aunt Emily as she scolds Binx in Part Five represents > this. > > To discuss this book and leave out Aunt Emily is to forget someone > central to it all. For this reader she is most important of all for > Binx. It is his love of her, he even enjoys it when she scolds him, that > keeps him from going off the deep end. And her brilliantly written big > rebuke at the end is what saves him from himself. One is reminded of the > biblical verse that says now I am become a man and must put away childish things. > > One is reminded of another biblical verse when the book is over. And now > abideth faith, hope and charity (love) but the greatest of these is > charity. > > Lonnie's Faith is pure and perfect. The scenes between Lonnie and Binx > are utterly exquisite. Binx couldn't care less about religion, yet his > love of Lonnie makes him happy and interested as Lonnie describes his > faith to him. And when Lonnie tells Binx he is taking his communion for > Binx, that is a spectacular moment. > > Hope? Is there hope for Binx? I think so and I think Walker Percy thinks so, too. > > And, as has already been noted, love runs throughout the novel. > > I don't think this is an existential novel. I think it is a Christian Morality Tale. > > ??? > > MY OUTSTANDING QUESTIONS > > Is the book an existential book, contrary to what I thought? > Is Aunt Emily as important to the story as I thought? > Is his half brother as important as I thought and are the scenes with him as gorgeous as I found them? > Is the book meant to be funny and endearing or depressing? > Is > the end meant to be uplifting or are they destined for the divorce > court in a few months as so many have suggested to me? Here's how I read > the end. There was a line in the book when they were in Chicago > and Kate declared that she knew how she could live in a big city - if > Binx told her what to do. So when he is taking care of his siblings (a > repetition of when his aunt comforted him when his brother, Scott, died) > and he needs Kate to do his business for him, he tells her what to do. I > just loved that. > Is > Kate simply a bipolar person? Or did Aunt Emily restrict her freedom > and self expression so much that she became mad? This last was not my > impression. It was what someone suggested to me. I saw no evidence of > that. Is that in the book? > > > > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Percy-L mailing list > Percy-L at lists.ibiblio.org > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/percy-l > > > End of Percy-L Digest, Vol 78, Issue 5 > ************************************** > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Percy-L mailing list > Percy-L at lists.ibiblio.org > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/percy-l > > > End of Percy-L Digest, Vol 78, Issue 7 > ************************************** > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From janetcantor37 at yahoo.com Thu Oct 14 22:54:37 2010 From: janetcantor37 at yahoo.com (janet cantor) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 19:54:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [percy-l] The Moviegoer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <230873.29538.qm@web63608.mail.re1.yahoo.com> I don't disagree with you, Rhonda. ?When I say he will accept the everydayness, I meant essentially the same thing you do.? What I meant is that Binx? no longer has to fight to stave off the ordinary. The day to day routine is fine for him now. He will transcend himself and help Kate and that will be his oneness with God. I see Aunt Emily as representing the gateway to his realization that the search is not important. Every time he talks to her he cannot bring himself to tell her and after the rant, he knows his search is over. His life now will be to do the right thing and take care of Kate and he will find contentment in that ordinary thing which is anything but ordinary. I am limited because, as I said, I am only a reader. There is no Kierkegard in my assessment, only what Percy has put on the page for me. One of my favorite tiny things is that Binx Bolling tells us of those who visit with their beards and bicycles. Such a perfectly clear description of what Percy is trying to convey there. A lovely book and your comments give me a lot to think about. Someday, I will have to read more to understand more. Thank you. Janet --- On Thu, 10/14/10, RHONDA MCDONNELL wrote: From: RHONDA MCDONNELL Subject: Re: [percy-l] The Moviegoer To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" Date: Thursday, October 14, 2010, 12:10 AM Janet, thanks for your questions. I appreciated the succinctness of your comment, "This is a book of its time, post Becket, the existentialists, and the absurdists," for in that comment you gesture toward the answer of one of your own questions.? Is the novel an existential book? Yes, Percy himself said that he intended it that way. Remember Binx's memory of becoming aware of his own hand while in Korea?? He awakened to his own existence, something which was repeated in his post-military life and started him on his search. He is searching for a meaningful life, recognizing that most around him are not awake to their own existence. Instead, they are like the bourgeoisie and the humanists that Sartre mocks in Nausea. The difference, as my listmates have already pointed out is that Percy's existentialism is a Christian existentialism. But, as Binx says, he refuses to be edifying. He does, however, say that he will help others along their way. And in the scene with his siblings, he tells them the truth, as he always does. So when Therese (wasn't it her?) asks if Lonnie will be able to waterski in heaven and Binx answers yes, he is reaffirming their faith and the promise of the resurrection.? That scene, by the way, was one that Percy said was an intentional nod to Dostoyevsky's The Brothers Karamozov, when the children all cheer for Alyosha.? I too find the book hilarious--funnier every time I read it. I love that he calls the dog Rosebud. I love the description of the scientists as freckled brontosauruses. I love when Binx reflects that every time his aunt has a talk with him, he has to find a girl. His "This I Believe" bit cracks me up.? And his dryness when he comments that his uncle is no Cato.? I could go on and on, but you get the point. The epigraph should, I think, be understood in the context Kierkegaard placed it in. His The Sickness Unto Death ultimately defined despair as being out of the presence of God. In a later novel, Percy explains it as a homesickness for a home we don't realize we miss.? But Binx is onto it, and that is what he is searching for. You wrote "he is carrying out normal activity and conversation, and no one having discourse with him, knows about his interior life. The only one who? knows it all is his fellow mentally discomfited, Kate. In the end, he will accept everydayness as he takes care of Kate." I respectfully disagree. I see him like Kierkegaard's religious man, who was indistinguishable from his fellow citizens because the movement to the religious is internal.? Rather than accepting everydayness, rather than choosing the Little Way, he has taken the absurd leap of faith that belief in God demands. One last thing, I think the enjoyment of the job, the secretaries, the movies, the library card, etc, is all an elaborate pose that he drops when he moves to a more religious way of thinking and seeing the world. In the epilogue, he says he doesn't go to the movies any more. --Rhonda "You live in a deranged age, more deranged than usual, because in spite of great scientific and technological advances, man has not the faintest idea of who he is or what he is doing." ?? ??????????????????????????????????? Walker Percy > From: jeriley at uark.edu > To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org > Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 21:18:56 +0000 > Subject: Re: [percy-l] The Moviegoer > > Janet: > > Thank you for the compliment-- I'm glad you found the comments helpful. And thank you for kick-starting a discussion on The Moviegoer, > which remains my favorite Percy novel, followed closely by The Last Gentleman, Love in the Ruins and Lancelot. Some of the later novels are > probably better as novels (i.e. works of art), but something about the way Percy handled the first-person narrative voice in The Moviegoer > connected with me when I first read it, and still does. > Are you familiar with the story of how the great writer A.J. Liebling "discovered" The Moviegoer while in New Orleans researching Huey > Long? Liebling's enthusiasm for the novel went a long way toward getting The MG nominated for--and winning--the National Book Award in 1962. > It's a great story (see Jay Tolson's biography). Luck never hurt, even for Walker Percy! > > Cheers, > > John Riley > Reference & Index Arkansas > Mullins Library > University of Arkansas > Fayetteville, Arkansas, USA > ________________________________________ > From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] on behalf of percy-l-request at lists.ibiblio.org [percy-l-request at lists.ibiblio.org] > Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2010 12:25 PM > To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: Percy-L Digest, Vol 78, Issue 7 > > Send Percy-L mailing list submissions to > percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/percy-l > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > percy-l-request at lists.ibiblio.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Percy-L digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Percy-L Digest, Vol 78, Issue 5 (janet cantor) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 14:45:55 -0700 (PDT) > From: janet cantor > To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" > > Subject: Re: [percy-l] Percy-L Digest, Vol 78, Issue 5 > Message-ID: <403839.24708.qm at web63607.mail.re1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Thank you, John, for these comments. They are valuable in keeping up the analysis of The Moviegoer. I especially like that you say you would keep away from anything described as a Christian morality tale, yet you consider this one of your favorite novels; and I liked your idea that a book is enough if it is a well written novel, which this one certainly is. > But best of all I value your insight? that we should "...remember in the epilogue Binx does say that he is "his mother's son after all."? I interpret that to mean that he has chosen the catholic faith over Aunt Emily's stoic philosophy." > That is excellent. > Janet > > --- On Tue, 10/12/10, John E. Riley wrote: > > From: John E. Riley > Subject: Re: [percy-l] Percy-L Digest, Vol 78, Issue 5 > To: "percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org" > Cc: "John E. Riley" > Date: Tuesday, October 12, 2010, 3:12 PM > > Janet: > > I like your reading of the novel and your questions at the end.? And I had to chuckle at your comment that > you are "merely a reader."? I feel sure that Walker Percy had great respect for his readers--he understood that > every writer needs readers; without readers, a writer's work is unfulfilled, exists in a vacuum. > > As to the question of whether The Moviegoer is an existentialist novel or a "Christian morality tale" as you think, > I believe it should be enough to say that it is a novel. The Moviegoer is a well-written novel, certainly, funny in its way, possibly a great novel; > If you connected with it at any level then that is enough, in my opinion.? The problem with labels and categories > is that they create pre-conceived ideas in people's minds.? Personally, I would stay far away from any novel described as > a "Christian morality tale" and yet the Moviegoer is one of my favorite novels. > > Aunt Emily is certainly central to the novel.? The reason Binx cannot speak of the search around her is that she > is so settled in, and persuasive about, her own perspective.? She does help in keeping Binx grounded, keeps him > from being some Jack Kerouac-like figure constantly roaming the earth.? He does not have much in common with Aunt > Emily, however.? It may be a generational thing.? But remember in the epilogue Binx does say that he is "his mother's son > after all."? I interpret that to mean that he has chosen the catholic faith over Aunt Emily's stoic philosophy. > > Kate certainly has her problems; she is depressed to the point of being a suicide risk (though she says at one point > that the thought of suicide is what keeps her going).? She would probably be diagnosed as bi-polar today.? Her > character reminds me of the book's epigraph, that the precise nature of despair is simply this: it is unaware of > being despair (I'm quoting from memory; I believe the saying was Kierkegaard's).? Kate is at least self-aware > enough to realize that something is seriously wrong.? What she can give to Binx is a "built-in bullshit detector" > (to paraphrase Hemingway; remember Binx says at one point that he believes in "a good kick in the ass"), > while Binx can obviously help Kate with the day-to-day challenges of concrete reality. > The beauty of any marriage relationship is that each person potentially has something to give to the other that helps complete > that person, make him or her a "better person" for lack of a better phrase.? So I see their marriage as on solid footing, > though it is obviously an open question regarding their future. > > Those are my thoughts.? I appreciate the fresh perspective you bring with your comments and questions. > Best of luck to you, Janet! > > John Riley > Reference & Index Arkansas > Mullins Library > University of Arkansas > Fayetteville, Arkansas, USA > ________________________________________ > From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] on behalf of percy-l-request at lists.ibiblio.org [percy-l-request at lists.ibiblio.org] > Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 3:53 AM > To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: Percy-L Digest, Vol 78, Issue 5 > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 01:48:31 -0700 (PDT) > From: janet cantor > To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: [percy-l] The Moviegoer - Please ignore my previous posts > Message-ID: <34801.9363.qm at web63607.mail.re1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Dear Percy-L, > > > > I am a 72 year old general reader and have numerous questions after > completing the Moviegoer. Please overlook my earlier posts to the list > as I am new to listservs in general. Please allow me to tell you of my > experience with the book. > > > > I read and reread the book. I led a discussion of it in my book group. > My reading was absolutely different from theirs. This stunned me. I > found the book funny, endearing and uplifting. They found it depressing > and hopeless. > > > > I include below two items I?d like to present to the list: 1) a personal > review I wrote about the MG for Amazon, and 2) the questions I still > have after exploring my thoughts about the book in my review. ?I intend > to edit my review after I have reread the book in the future and my > thoughts have become more clear. I am not a scholar, merely a reader. > > > > My overall question concerns that the book was written in the 50's. It > seems to me that it is not correct to read it narrowly from the > perspective of current attitudes. Please forgive any naivete I may bring > to my reading as present in my review. I will come back to the book in > about a year and see if I agree with myself. > > > > Rest assured any help or responses to this post that anyone can give me will be decidedly appreciated. > > > > Cheers, > > Janet Cantor > > > > > > MY PERSONAL AMAZON REVIEW > > A masterpiece, September 25, 2010 ? > > SPOILER ALERT. Do not read this review until after you have finished the book and considered it for yourself. > > > > If fifteen people read and reviewed The Moviegoer, > they could create fifteen different descriptions of it. If one person > read it a year later, he could write a completely different review of it > from the one he wrote the year before. It all depends on what is > emphasized, the southernness, New Orleans, > the story of ancestries, the blacks and whites or the relationship of > the story to Kierkegard. There are so many aspects of the novel to > consider. > > This is a funny book, an endearing book. The writing is gasp inducing gorgeous. > > This is a book of its time, post Becket, the existentialists, and the > absurdists. It follows a half century of the realization of the great > scale of the horror man is capable of perpetrating on his fellow men. Salinger has been writing about teenage angst. Yet, while it is so relevant to the late nineteen fifties, Binx's story finds resonance to this day. > > It is ?funny to read how Binx plots to make his secretary fall in love > with him. The descriptions of movies and their use to him and how he > makes a movie house more real are wonderful. Look on page 216 for a line > that gives the reader pause on the subject of the title. > > ?Binx's elaborate descriptions of the components of his search make up a > good portion of the story. Yet every time he is with Aunt Emily, he > either can't talk about it or it seems to be smaller in importance. And > in the face of Aunt Emily's big rant at him in part five, he understands > that he is finished with his search. > > His search, he tells us, is to forestall the everydayness; in his head he criticizes other people who are satisfied with ordinary lives. > All the while he is thinking and working out the details of his search, > he is carrying out normal activity and conversation, and no one having > discourse with him, knows about his interior life. The only one who > knows it all is his fellow mentally discomfited, Kate. In the end, he > will accept everydayness as he takes care of Kate. > > It is a great theme in a lot of literature, the concept of coming home. Ulysses, The Wizard of Oz, > Pippin, the musical, where he realizes he is not extraordinary and will > settle as man, woman, child in an every day existence, and Candide, who > after his upsetting adventures will join with his love and just make > his garden grow. And so it is here. The epilogue may be one of the most > gorgeous things I have ever read. Tender, quiet, accepting; Kate and > Binx will make it, I believe. > > The book is described as an existential novel. What kind of existential > protagonist loves his job, loves making money, and goes to great lengths > to protect his clients' accounts? What kind of existential character > loves others, his half brother, Lonnie and Aunt Emily? He even has a kind of love for minor characters like Mr. Kinsella and the ladies in ticket booths. And Kate and Binx have a kind of love for each other. > > This book doesn't seem to be an existential novel as much as a rebuke to the existentialists. Walker Percy > seems to be saying to them, "Come off it. Get with the program. It's > enough already." ?Aunt Emily as she scolds Binx in Part Five represents > this. > > To discuss this book and leave out Aunt Emily is to forget someone > central to it all. For this reader she is most important of all for > Binx. It is his love of her, he even enjoys it when she scolds him, that > keeps him from going off the deep end. And her brilliantly written big > rebuke at the end is what saves him from himself. One is reminded of the > biblical verse that says now I am become a man and must put away childish things. > > One is reminded of another biblical verse when the book is over. And now > abideth faith, hope and charity (love) but the greatest of these is > charity. > > Lonnie's Faith is pure and perfect. The scenes between Lonnie and Binx > are utterly exquisite. Binx couldn't care less about religion, yet his > love of Lonnie makes him happy and interested as Lonnie describes his > faith to him. And when Lonnie tells Binx he is taking his communion for > Binx, that is a spectacular moment. > > Hope? Is there hope for Binx? I think so and I think Walker Percy thinks so, too. > > And, as has already been noted, love runs throughout the novel. > > I don't think this is an existential novel. I think it is a Christian Morality Tale. > > ??? > > MY OUTSTANDING QUESTIONS > > Is the book an existential book, contrary to what I thought? > Is Aunt Emily as important to the story as I thought? > Is his half brother as important as I thought and are the scenes with him as gorgeous as I found them? > Is the book meant to be funny and endearing or depressing? > Is > the end meant to be uplifting or are they destined for the divorce > court in a few months as so many have suggested to me? Here's how I read > the end. There was a line in the book when they were in Chicago > and Kate declared that she knew how she could live in a big city - if > Binx told her what to do. So when he is taking care of his siblings (a > repetition of when his aunt comforted him when his brother, Scott, died) > and he needs Kate to do his business for him, he tells her what to do. I > just loved that. > Is > Kate simply a bipolar person? Or did Aunt Emily restrict her freedom > and self expression so much that she became mad? This last was not my > impression. It was what someone suggested to me. I saw no evidence of > that. Is that in the book? > > > > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Percy-L mailing list > Percy-L at lists.ibiblio.org > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/percy-l > > > End of Percy-L Digest, Vol 78, Issue 5 > ************************************** > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Percy-L mailing list > Percy-L at lists.ibiblio.org > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/percy-l > > > End of Percy-L Digest, Vol 78, Issue 7 > ************************************** > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) -----Inline Attachment Follows----- -- An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rhonda_mcdonnell at msn.com Fri Oct 15 20:06:22 2010 From: rhonda_mcdonnell at msn.com (RHONDA MCDONNELL) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2010 17:06:22 -0700 Subject: [percy-l] The Moviegoer In-Reply-To: <230873.29538.qm@web63608.mail.re1.yahoo.com> References: , <230873.29538.qm@web63608.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Ah, I understand your point, Janet. Percy has opened doors to so many other thinkers for me. I first read The Moviegoer close to twenty years ago--seems unbelievable! Since then I've read and reread all of Percy and have found myself reading those he acknowledged as sources. Every time I read him, I discover something new. And sometimes, when I haven't been reading him, a connection to one of his works will pop into my head, and I'll discover something new and want to go back to reread again. Aren't we all only readers? Some folks on the list teach literature, but when any of us sits down with a book, it is just the reader and the book. And as a reader you certainly showed me, and I daresay all of us, new perspectives on an old favorite. Thank you! --Rhonda "You live in a deranged age, more deranged than usual, because in spite of great scientific and technological advances, man has not the faintest idea of who he is or what he is doing." Walker Percy Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 19:54:37 -0700 From: janetcantor37 at yahoo.com To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org Subject: Re: [percy-l] The Moviegoer I don't disagree with you, Rhonda. When I say he will accept the everydayness, I meant essentially the same thing you do. What I meant is that Binx no longer has to fight to stave off the ordinary. The day to day routine is fine for him now. He will transcend himself and help Kate and that will be his oneness with God. I see Aunt Emily as representing the gateway to his realization that the search is not important. Every time he talks to her he cannot bring himself to tell her and after the rant, he knows his search is over. His life now will be to do the right thing and take care of Kate and he will find contentment in that ordinary thing which is anything but ordinary. I am limited because, as I said, I am only a reader. There is no Kierkegard in my assessment, only what Percy has put on the page for me. One of my favorite tiny things is that Binx Bolling tells us of those who visit with their beards and bicycles. Such a perfectly clear description of what Percy is trying to convey there. A lovely book and your comments give me a lot to think about. Someday, I will have to read more to understand more. Thank you. Janet --- On Thu, 10/14/10, RHONDA MCDONNELL wrote: From: RHONDA MCDONNELL Subject: Re: [percy-l] The Moviegoer To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" Date: Thursday, October 14, 2010, 12:10 AM Janet, thanks for your questions. I appreciated the succinctness of your comment, "This is a book of its time, post Becket, the existentialists, and the absurdists," for in that comment you gesture toward the answer of one of your own questions. Is the novel an existential book? Yes, Percy himself said that he intended it that way. Remember Binx's memory of becoming aware of his own hand while in Korea? He awakened to his own existence, something which was repeated in his post-military life and started him on his search. He is searching for a meaningful life, recognizing that most around him are not awake to their own existence. Instead, they are like the bourgeoisie and the humanists that Sartre mocks in Nausea. The difference, as my listmates have already pointed out is that Percy's existentialism is a Christian existentialism. But, as Binx says, he refuses to be edifying. He does, however, say that he will help others along their way. And in the scene with his siblings, he tells them the truth, as he always does. So when Therese (wasn't it her?) asks if Lonnie will be able to waterski in heaven and Binx answers yes, he is reaffirming their faith and the promise of the resurrection. That scene, by the way, was one that Percy said was an intentional nod to Dostoyevsky's The Brothers Karamozov, when the children all cheer for Alyosha. I too find the book hilarious--funnier every time I read it. I love that he calls the dog Rosebud. I love the description of the scientists as freckled brontosauruses. I love when Binx reflects that every time his aunt has a talk with him, he has to find a girl. His "This I Believe" bit cracks me up. And his dryness when he comments that his uncle is no Cato. I could go on and on, but you get the point. The epigraph should, I think, be understood in the context Kierkegaard placed it in. His The Sickness Unto Death ultimately defined despair as being out of the presence of God. In a later novel, Percy explains it as a homesickness for a home we don't realize we miss. But Binx is onto it, and that is what he is searching for. You wrote "he is carrying out normal activity and conversation, and no one having discourse with him, knows about his interior life. The only one who knows it all is his fellow mentally discomfited, Kate. In the end, he will accept everydayness as he takes care of Kate." I respectfully disagree. I see him like Kierkegaard's religious man, who was indistinguishable from his fellow citizens because the movement to the religious is internal. Rather than accepting everydayness, rather than choosing the Little Way, he has taken the absurd leap of faith that belief in God demands. One last thing, I think the enjoyment of the job, the secretaries, the movies, the library card, etc, is all an elaborate pose that he drops when he moves to a more religious way of thinking and seeing the world. In the epilogue, he says he doesn't go to the movies any more. --Rhonda "You live in a deranged age, more deranged than usual, because in spite of great scientific and technological advances, man has not the faintest idea of who he is or what he is doing." Walker Percy > From: jeriley at uark.edu > To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org > Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 21:18:56 +0000 > Subject: Re: [percy-l] The Moviegoer > > Janet: > > Thank you for the compliment-- I'm glad you found the comments helpful. And thank you for kick-starting a discussion on The Moviegoer, > which remains my favorite Percy novel, followed closely by The Last Gentleman, Love in the Ruins and Lancelot. Some of the later novels are > probably better as novels (i.e. works of art), but something about the way Percy handled the first-person narrative voice in The Moviegoer > connected with me when I first read it, and still does. > Are you familiar with the story of how the great writer A.J. Liebling "discovered" The Moviegoer while in New Orleans researching Huey > Long? Liebling's enthusiasm for the novel went a long way toward getting The MG nominated for--and winning--the National Book Award in 1962. > It's a great story (see Jay Tolson's biography). Luck never hurt, even for Walker Percy! > > Cheers, > > John Riley > Reference & Index Arkansas > Mullins Library > University of Arkansas > Fayetteville, Arkansas, USA > ________________________________________ > From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] on behalf of percy-l-request at lists.ibiblio.org [percy-l-request at lists.ibiblio.org] > Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2010 12:25 PM > To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: Percy-L Digest, Vol 78, Issue 7 > > Send Percy-L mailing list submissions to > percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/percy-l > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > percy-l-request at lists.ibiblio.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Percy-L digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Percy-L Digest, Vol 78, Issue 5 (janet cantor) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 14:45:55 -0700 (PDT) > From: janet cantor > To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" > > Subject: Re: [percy-l] Percy-L Digest, Vol 78, Issue 5 > Message-ID: <403839.24708.qm at web63607.mail.re1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Thank you, John, for these comments. They are valuable in keeping up the analysis of The Moviegoer. I especially like that you say you would keep away from anything described as a Christian morality tale, yet you consider this one of your favorite novels; and I liked your idea that a book is enough if it is a well written novel, which this one certainly is. > But best of all I value your insight? that we should "...remember in the epilogue Binx does say that he is "his mother's son after all."? I interpret that to mean that he has chosen the catholic faith over Aunt Emily's stoic philosophy." > That is excellent. > Janet > > --- On Tue, 10/12/10, John E. Riley wrote: > > From: John E. Riley > Subject: Re: [percy-l] Percy-L Digest, Vol 78, Issue 5 > To: "percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org" > Cc: "John E. Riley" > Date: Tuesday, October 12, 2010, 3:12 PM > > Janet: > > I like your reading of the novel and your questions at the end.? And I had to chuckle at your comment that > you are "merely a reader."? I feel sure that Walker Percy had great respect for his readers--he understood that > every writer needs readers; without readers, a writer's work is unfulfilled, exists in a vacuum. > > As to the question of whether The Moviegoer is an existentialist novel or a "Christian morality tale" as you think, > I believe it should be enough to say that it is a novel. The Moviegoer is a well-written novel, certainly, funny in its way, possibly a great novel; > If you connected with it at any level then that is enough, in my opinion.? The problem with labels and categories > is that they create pre-conceived ideas in people's minds.? Personally, I would stay far away from any novel described as > a "Christian morality tale" and yet the Moviegoer is one of my favorite novels. > > Aunt Emily is certainly central to the novel.? The reason Binx cannot speak of the search around her is that she > is so settled in, and persuasive about, her own perspective.? She does help in keeping Binx grounded, keeps him > from being some Jack Kerouac-like figure constantly roaming the earth.? He does not have much in common with Aunt > Emily, however.? It may be a generational thing.? But remember in the epilogue Binx does say that he is "his mother's son > after all."? I interpret that to mean that he has chosen the catholic faith over Aunt Emily's stoic philosophy. > > Kate certainly has her problems; she is depressed to the point of being a suicide risk (though she says at one point > that the thought of suicide is what keeps her going).? She would probably be diagnosed as bi-polar today.? Her > character reminds me of the book's epigraph, that the precise nature of despair is simply this: it is unaware of > being despair (I'm quoting from memory; I believe the saying was Kierkegaard's).? Kate is at least self-aware > enough to realize that something is seriously wrong.? What she can give to Binx is a "built-in bullshit detector" > (to paraphrase Hemingway; remember Binx says at one point that he believes in "a good kick in the ass"), > while Binx can obviously help Kate with the day-to-day challenges of concrete reality. > The beauty of any marriage relationship is that each person potentially has something to give to the other that helps complete > that person, make him or her a "better person" for lack of a better phrase.? So I see their marriage as on solid footing, > though it is obviously an open question regarding their future. > > Those are my thoughts.? I appreciate the fresh perspective you bring with your comments and questions. > Best of luck to you, Janet! > > John Riley > Reference & Index Arkansas > Mullins Library > University of Arkansas > Fayetteville, Arkansas, USA > ________________________________________ > From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] on behalf of percy-l-request at lists.ibiblio.org [percy-l-request at lists.ibiblio.org] > Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 3:53 AM > To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: Percy-L Digest, Vol 78, Issue 5 > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 01:48:31 -0700 (PDT) > From: janet cantor > To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: [percy-l] The Moviegoer - Please ignore my previous posts > Message-ID: <34801.9363.qm at web63607.mail.re1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Dear Percy-L, > > > > I am a 72 year old general reader and have numerous questions after > completing the Moviegoer. Please overlook my earlier posts to the list > as I am new to listservs in general. Please allow me to tell you of my > experience with the book. > > > > I read and reread the book. I led a discussion of it in my book group. > My reading was absolutely different from theirs. This stunned me. I > found the book funny, endearing and uplifting. They found it depressing > and hopeless. > > > > I include below two items I?d like to present to the list: 1) a personal > review I wrote about the MG for Amazon, and 2) the questions I still > have after exploring my thoughts about the book in my review. ?I intend > to edit my review after I have reread the book in the future and my > thoughts have become more clear. I am not a scholar, merely a reader. > > > > My overall question concerns that the book was written in the 50's. It > seems to me that it is not correct to read it narrowly from the > perspective of current attitudes. Please forgive any naivete I may bring > to my reading as present in my review. I will come back to the book in > about a year and see if I agree with myself. > > > > Rest assured any help or responses to this post that anyone can give me will be decidedly appreciated. > > > > Cheers, > > Janet Cantor > > > > > > MY PERSONAL AMAZON REVIEW > > A masterpiece, September 25, 2010 ? > > SPOILER ALERT. Do not read this review until after you have finished the book and considered it for yourself. > > > > If fifteen people read and reviewed The Moviegoer, > they could create fifteen different descriptions of it. If one person > read it a year later, he could write a completely different review of it > from the one he wrote the year before. It all depends on what is > emphasized, the southernness, New Orleans, > the story of ancestries, the blacks and whites or the relationship of > the story to Kierkegard. There are so many aspects of the novel to > consider. > > This is a funny book, an endearing book. The writing is gasp inducing gorgeous. > > This is a book of its time, post Becket, the existentialists, and the > absurdists. It follows a half century of the realization of the great > scale of the horror man is capable of perpetrating on his fellow men. Salinger has been writing about teenage angst. Yet, while it is so relevant to the late nineteen fifties, Binx's story finds resonance to this day. > > It is ?funny to read how Binx plots to make his secretary fall in love > with him. The descriptions of movies and their use to him and how he > makes a movie house more real are wonderful. Look on page 216 for a line > that gives the reader pause on the subject of the title. > > ?Binx's elaborate descriptions of the components of his search make up a > good portion of the story. Yet every time he is with Aunt Emily, he > either can't talk about it or it seems to be smaller in importance. And > in the face of Aunt Emily's big rant at him in part five, he understands > that he is finished with his search. > > His search, he tells us, is to forestall the everydayness; in his head he criticizes other people who are satisfied with ordinary lives. > All the while he is thinking and working out the details of his search, > he is carrying out normal activity and conversation, and no one having > discourse with him, knows about his interior life. The only one who > knows it all is his fellow mentally discomfited, Kate. In the end, he > will accept everydayness as he takes care of Kate. > > It is a great theme in a lot of literature, the concept of coming home. Ulysses, The Wizard of Oz, > Pippin, the musical, where he realizes he is not extraordinary and will > settle as man, woman, child in an every day existence, and Candide, who > after his upsetting adventures will join with his love and just make > his garden grow. And so it is here. The epilogue may be one of the most > gorgeous things I have ever read. Tender, quiet, accepting; Kate and > Binx will make it, I believe. > > The book is described as an existential novel. What kind of existential > protagonist loves his job, loves making money, and goes to great lengths > to protect his clients' accounts? What kind of existential character > loves others, his half brother, Lonnie and Aunt Emily? He even has a kind of love for minor characters like Mr. Kinsella and the ladies in ticket booths. And Kate and Binx have a kind of love for each other. > > This book doesn't seem to be an existential novel as much as a rebuke to the existentialists. Walker Percy > seems to be saying to them, "Come off it. Get with the program. It's > enough already." ?Aunt Emily as she scolds Binx in Part Five represents > this. > > To discuss this book and leave out Aunt Emily is to forget someone > central to it all. For this reader she is most important of all for > Binx. It is his love of her, he even enjoys it when she scolds him, that > keeps him from going off the deep end. And her brilliantly written big > rebuke at the end is what saves him from himself. One is reminded of the > biblical verse that says now I am become a man and must put away childish things. > > One is reminded of another biblical verse when the book is over. And now > abideth faith, hope and charity (love) but the greatest of these is > charity. > > Lonnie's Faith is pure and perfect. The scenes between Lonnie and Binx > are utterly exquisite. Binx couldn't care less about religion, yet his > love of Lonnie makes him happy and interested as Lonnie describes his > faith to him. And when Lonnie tells Binx he is taking his communion for > Binx, that is a spectacular moment. > > Hope? Is there hope for Binx? I think so and I think Walker Percy thinks so, too. > > And, as has already been noted, love runs throughout the novel. > > I don't think this is an existential novel. I think it is a Christian Morality Tale. > > ??? > > MY OUTSTANDING QUESTIONS > > Is the book an existential book, contrary to what I thought? > Is Aunt Emily as important to the story as I thought? > Is his half brother as important as I thought and are the scenes with him as gorgeous as I found them? > Is the book meant to be funny and endearing or depressing? > Is > the end meant to be uplifting or are they destined for the divorce > court in a few months as so many have suggested to me? Here's how I read > the end. There was a line in the book when they were in Chicago > and Kate declared that she knew how she could live in a big city - if > Binx told her what to do. So when he is taking care of his siblings (a > repetition of when his aunt comforted him when his brother, Scott, died) > and he needs Kate to do his business for him, he tells her what to do. I > just loved that. > Is > Kate simply a bipolar person? Or did Aunt Emily restrict her freedom > and self expression so much that she became mad? This last was not my > impression. It was what someone suggested to me. I saw no evidence of > that. Is that in the book? > > > > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Percy-L mailing list > Percy-L at lists.ibiblio.org > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/percy-l > > > End of Percy-L Digest, Vol 78, Issue 5 > ************************************** > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Percy-L mailing list > Percy-L at lists.ibiblio.org > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/percy-l > > > End of Percy-L Digest, Vol 78, Issue 7 > ************************************** > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) -----Inline Attachment Follows----- -- An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) -- An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From janetcantor37 at yahoo.com Sat Oct 16 15:25:06 2010 From: janetcantor37 at yahoo.com (janet cantor) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 12:25:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [percy-l] The Moviegoer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <290834.45677.qm@web63604.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Thank you so much for your comments, Rhonda. ? There is one thing that I would appreciate getting? more perspective on from experienced Percy readers. When Percy wrote the epilogue, did he intend for us to be uplifted? Did he intend for us to feel good about?Binx and Kate or did he mean it to be depressiing and hopeless? It is easy to say why choose, which works often when a book is both funny and sad. But the end was very pleasing to me. I found it gorgeous. It really troubled me that so many had no hope for the couple. What did Percy want us to feel? Does the answer depend, as was suggested, on whether the reader has belief or not? That seems logical to me. Because many modern readers would find it trivial to bring that up. I found the ending spiritual and poetic. Janet ? ? --- On Fri, 10/15/10, RHONDA MCDONNELL wrote: From: RHONDA MCDONNELL wrote: From: RHONDA MCDONNELL Subject: Re: [percy-l] The Moviegoer To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" Date: Thursday, October 14, 2010, 12:10 AM #yiv597610209 .yiv597610209ExternalClass #yiv597610209ecxyiv263626057 .yiv597610209ecxyiv263626057hmmessage P {padding:0px;} #yiv597610209 .yiv597610209ExternalClass #yiv597610209ecxyiv263626057 .yiv597610209ecxyiv263626057hmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;} Janet, thanks for your questions. I appreciated the succinctness of your comment, "This is a book of its time, post Becket, the existentialists, and the absurdists," for in that comment you gesture toward the answer of one of your own questions.? Is the novel an existential book? Yes, Percy himself said that he intended it that way. Remember Binx's memory of becoming aware of his own hand while in Korea?? He awakened to his own existence, something which was repeated in his post-military life and started him on his search. He is searching for a meaningful life, recognizing that most around him are not awake to their own existence. Instead, they are like the bourgeoisie and the humanists that Sartre mocks in Nausea. The difference, as my listmates have already pointed out is that Percy's existentialism is a Christian existentialism. But, as Binx says, he refuses to be edifying. He does, however, say that he will help others along their way. And in the scene with his siblings, he tells them the truth, as he always does. So when Therese (wasn't it her?) asks if Lonnie will be able to waterski in heaven and Binx answers yes, he is reaffirming their faith and the promise of the resurrection.? That scene, by the way, was one that Percy said was an intentional nod to Dostoyevsky's The Brothers Karamozov, when the children all cheer for Alyosha.? I too find the book hilarious--funnier every time I read it. I love that he calls the dog Rosebud. I love the description of the scientists as freckled brontosauruses. I love when Binx reflects that every time his aunt has a talk with him, he has to find a girl. His "This I Believe" bit cracks me up.? And his dryness when he comments that his uncle is no Cato.? I could go on and on, but you get the point. The epigraph should, I think, be understood in the context Kierkegaard placed it in. His The Sickness Unto Death ultimately defined despair as being out of the presence of God. In a later novel, Percy explains it as a homesickness for a home we don't realize we miss.? But Binx is onto it, and that is what he is searching for. You wrote "he is carrying out normal activity and conversation, and no one having discourse with him, knows about his interior life. The only one who? knows it all is his fellow mentally discomfited, Kate. In the end, he will accept everydayness as he takes care of Kate." I respectfully disagree. I see him like Kierkegaard's religious man, who was indistinguishable from his fellow citizens because the movement to the religious is internal.? Rather than accepting everydayness, rather than choosing the Little Way, he has taken the absurd leap of faith that belief in God demands. One last thing, I think the enjoyment of the job, the secretaries, the movies, the library card, etc, is all an elaborate pose that he drops when he moves to a more religious way of thinking and seeing the world. In the epilogue, he says he doesn't go to the movies any more. --Rhonda "You live in a deranged age, more deranged than usual, because in spite of great scientific and technological advances, man has not the faintest idea of who he is or what he is doing." ?? ??????????????????????????????????? Walker Percy > From: jeriley at uark.edu > To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org > Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 21:18:56 +0000 > Subject: Re: [percy-l] The Moviegoer > > Janet: > > Thank you for the compliment-- I'm glad you found the comments helpful. And thank you for kick-starting a discussion on The Moviegoer, > which remains my favorite Percy novel, followed closely by The Last Gentleman, Love in the Ruins and Lancelot. Some of the later novels are > probably better as novels (i.e. works of art), but something about the way Percy handled the first-person narrative voice in The Moviegoer > connected with me when I first read it, and still does. > Are you familiar with the story of how the great writer A.J. Liebling "discovered" The Moviegoer while in New Orleans researching Huey > Long? Liebling's enthusiasm for the novel went a long way toward getting The MG nominated for--and winning--the National Book Award in 1962. > It's a great story (see Jay Tolson's biography). Luck never hurt, even for Walker Percy! > > Cheers, > > John Riley > Reference & Index Arkansas > Mullins Library > University of Arkansas > Fayetteville, Arkansas, USA > ________________________________________ > From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] on behalf of percy-l-request at lists.ibiblio.org [percy-l-request at lists.ibiblio.org] > Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2010 12:25 PM > To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: Percy-L Digest, Vol 78, Issue 7 > > Send Percy-L mailing list submissions to > percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/percy-l > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > percy-l-request at lists.ibiblio.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Percy-L digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Percy-L Digest, Vol 78, Issue 5 (janet cantor) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 14:45:55 -0700 (PDT) > From: janet cantor > To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" > > Subject: Re: [percy-l] Percy-L Digest, Vol 78, Issue 5 > Message-ID: <403839.24708.qm at web63607.mail.re1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Thank you, John, for these comments. They are valuable in keeping up the analysis of The Moviegoer. I especially like that you say you would keep away from anything described as a Christian morality tale, yet you consider this one of your favorite novels; and I liked your idea that a book is enough if it is a well written novel, which this one certainly is. > But best of all I value your insight? that we should "...remember in the epilogue Binx does say that he is "his mother's son after all."? I interpret that to mean that he has chosen the catholic faith over Aunt Emily's stoic philosophy." > That is excellent. > Janet > > --- On Tue, 10/12/10, John E. Riley wrote: > > From: John E. Riley > Subject: Re: [percy-l] Percy-L Digest, Vol 78, Issue 5 > To: "percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org" > Cc: "John E. Riley" > Date: Tuesday, October 12, 2010, 3:12 PM > > Janet: > > I like your reading of the novel and your questions at the end.? And I had to chuckle at your comment that > you are "merely a reader."? I feel sure that Walker Percy had great respect for his readers--he understood that > every writer needs readers; without readers, a writer's work is unfulfilled, exists in a vacuum. > > As to the question of whether The Moviegoer is an existentialist novel or a "Christian morality tale" as you think, > I believe it should be enough to say that it is a novel. The Moviegoer is a well-written novel, certainly, funny in its way, possibly a great novel; > If you connected with it at any level then that is enough, in my opinion.? The problem with labels and categories > is that they create pre-conceived ideas in people's minds.? Personally, I would stay far away from any novel described as > a "Christian morality tale" and yet the Moviegoer is one of my favorite novels. > > Aunt Emily is certainly central to the novel.? The reason Binx cannot speak of the search around her is that she > is so settled in, and persuasive about, her own perspective.? She does help in keeping Binx grounded, keeps him > from being some Jack Kerouac-like figure constantly roaming the earth.? He does not have much in common with Aunt > Emily, however.? It may be a generational thing.? But remember in the epilogue Binx does say that he is "his mother's son > after all."? I interpret that to mean that he has chosen the catholic faith over Aunt Emily's stoic philosophy. > > Kate certainly has her problems; she is depressed to the point of being a suicide risk (though she says at one point > that the thought of suicide is what keeps her going).? She would probably be diagnosed as bi-polar today.? Her > character reminds me of the book's epigraph, that the precise nature of despair is simply this: it is unaware of > being despair (I'm quoting from memory; I believe the saying was Kierkegaard's).? Kate is at least self-aware > enough to realize that something is seriously wrong.? What she can give to Binx is a "built-in bullshit detector" > (to paraphrase Hemingway; remember Binx says at one point that he believes in "a good kick in the ass"), > while Binx can obviously help Kate with the day-to-day challenges of concrete reality. > The beauty of any marriage relationship is that each person potentially has something to give to the other that helps complete > that person, make him or her a "better person" for lack of a better phrase.? So I see their marriage as on solid footing, > though it is obviously an open question regarding their future. > > Those are my thoughts.? I appreciate the fresh perspective you bring with your comments and questions. > Best of luck to you, Janet! > > John Riley > Reference & Index Arkansas > Mullins Library > University of Arkansas > Fayetteville, Arkansas, USA > ________________________________________ > From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] on behalf of percy-l-request at lists.ibiblio.org [percy-l-request at lists.ibiblio.org] > Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 3:53 AM > To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: Percy-L Digest, Vol 78, Issue 5 > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 01:48:31 -0700 (PDT) > From: janet cantor > To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: [percy-l] The Moviegoer - Please ignore my previous posts > Message-ID: <34801.9363.qm at web63607.mail.re1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Dear Percy-L, > > > > I am a 72 year old general reader and have numerous questions after > completing the Moviegoer. Please overlook my earlier posts to the list > as I am new to listservs in general. Please allow me to tell you of my > experience with the book. > > > > I read and reread the book. I led a discussion of it in my book group. > My reading was absolutely different from theirs. This stunned me. I > found the book funny, endearing and uplifting. They found it depressing > and hopeless. > > > > I include below two items I?d like to present to the list: 1) a personal > review I wrote about the MG for Amazon, and 2) the questions I still > have after exploring my thoughts about the book in my review. ?I intend > to edit my review after I have reread the book in the future and my > thoughts have become more clear. I am not a scholar, merely a reader. > > > > My overall question concerns that the book was written in the 50's. It > seems to me that it is not correct to read it narrowly from the > perspective of current attitudes. Please forgive any naivete I may bring > to my reading as present in my review. I will come back to the book in > about a year and see if I agree with myself. > > > > Rest assured any help or responses to this post that anyone can give me will be decidedly appreciated. > > > > Cheers, > > Janet Cantor > > > > > > MY PERSONAL AMAZON REVIEW > > A masterpiece, September 25, 2010 ? > > SPOILER ALERT. Do not read this review until after you have finished the book and considered it for yourself. > > > > If fifteen people read and reviewed The Moviegoer, > they could create fifteen different descriptions of it. If one person > read it a year later, he could write a completely different review of it > from the one he wrote the year before. It all depends on what is > emphasized, the southernness, New Orleans, > the story of ancestries, the blacks and whites or the relationship of > the story to Kierkegard. There are so many aspects of the novel to > consider. > > This is a funny book, an endearing book. The writing is gasp inducing gorgeous. > > This is a book of its time, post Becket, the existentialists, and the > absurdists. It follows a half century of the realization of the great > scale of the horror man is capable of perpetrating on his fellow men. Salinger has been writing about teenage angst. Yet, while it is so relevant to the late nineteen fifties, Binx's story finds resonance to this day. > > It is ?funny to read how Binx plots to make his secretary fall in love > with him. The descriptions of movies and their use to him and how he > makes a movie house more real are wonderful. Look on page 216 for a line > that gives the reader pause on the subject of the title. > > ?Binx's elaborate descriptions of the components of his search make up a > good portion of the story. Yet every time he is with Aunt Emily, he > either can't talk about it or it seems to be smaller in importance. And > in the face of Aunt Emily's big rant at him in part five, he understands > that he is finished with his search. > > His search, he tells us, is to forestall the everydayness; in his head he criticizes other people who are satisfied with ordinary lives. > All the while he is thinking and working out the details of his search, > he is carrying out normal activity and conversation, and no one having > discourse with him, knows about his interior life. The only one who > knows it all is his fellow mentally discomfited, Kate. In the end, he > will accept everydayness as he takes care of Kate. > > It is a great theme in a lot of literature, the concept of coming home. Ulysses, The Wizard of Oz, > Pippin, the musical, where he realizes he is not extraordinary and will > settle as man, woman, child in an every day existence, and Candide, who > after his upsetting adventures will join with his love and just make > his garden grow. And so it is here. The epilogue may be one of the most > gorgeous things I have ever read. Tender, quiet, accepting; Kate and > Binx will make it, I believe. > > The book is described as an existential novel. What kind of existential > protagonist loves his job, loves making money, and goes to great lengths > to protect his clients' accounts? What kind of existential character > loves others, his half brother, Lonnie and Aunt Emily? He even has a kind of love for minor characters like Mr. Kinsella and the ladies in ticket booths. And Kate and Binx have a kind of love for each other. > > This book doesn't seem to be an existential novel as much as a rebuke to the existentialists. Walker Percy > seems to be saying to them, "Come off it. Get with the program. It's > enough already." ?Aunt Emily as she scolds Binx in Part Five represents > this. > > To discuss this book and leave out Aunt Emily is to forget someone > central to it all. For this reader she is most important of all for > Binx. It is his love of her, he even enjoys it when she scolds him, that > keeps him from going off the deep end. And her brilliantly written big > rebuke at the end is what saves him from himself. One is reminded of the > biblical verse that says now I am become a man and must put away childish things. > > One is reminded of another biblical verse when the book is over. And now > abideth faith, hope and charity (love) but the greatest of these is > charity. > > Lonnie's Faith is pure and perfect. The scenes between Lonnie and Binx > are utterly exquisite. Binx couldn't care less about religion, yet his > love of Lonnie makes him happy and interested as Lonnie describes his > faith to him. And when Lonnie tells Binx he is taking his communion for > Binx, that is a spectacular moment. > > Hope? Is there hope for Binx? I think so and I think Walker Percy thinks so, too. > > And, as has already been noted, love runs throughout the novel. > > I don't think this is an existential novel. I think it is a Christian Morality Tale. > > ??? > > MY OUTSTANDING QUESTIONS > > Is the book an existential book, contrary to what I thought? > Is Aunt Emily as important to the story as I thought? > Is his half brother as important as I thought and are the scenes with him as gorgeous as I found them? > Is the book meant to be funny and endearing or depressing? > Is > the end meant to be uplifting or are they destined for the divorce > court in a few months as so many have suggested to me? Here's how I read > the end. There was a line in the book when they were in Chicago > and Kate declared that she knew how she could live in a big city - if > Binx told her what to do. So when he is taking care of his siblings (a > repetition of when his aunt comforted him when his brother, Scott, died) > and he needs Kate to do his business for him, he tells her what to do. I > just loved that. > Is > Kate simply a bipolar person? Or did Aunt Emily restrict her freedom > and self expression so much that she became mad? This last was not my > impression. It was what someone suggested to me. I saw no evidence of > that. Is that in the book? > > > > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Percy-L mailing list > Percy-L at lists.ibiblio.org > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/percy-l > > > End of Percy-L Digest, Vol 78, Issue 5 > ************************************** > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Percy-L mailing list > Percy-L at lists.ibiblio.org > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/percy-l > > > End of Percy-L Digest, Vol 78, Issue 7 > ************************************** > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) -----Inline Attachment Follows----- -- An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) -- An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) -----Inline Attachment Follows----- -- An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rhonda_mcdonnell at msn.com Mon Oct 18 22:44:42 2010 From: rhonda_mcdonnell at msn.com (RHONDA MCDONNELL) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 19:44:42 -0700 Subject: [percy-l] The Moviegoer In-Reply-To: <290834.45677.qm@web63604.mail.re1.yahoo.com> References: , <290834.45677.qm@web63604.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Janice, I'm with you! I think Kate and Binx in are a good place at the novel's end. Sure, it's a product of his time, and some people have taken offense to Binx's telling Kate what to do, but in the end, they certify each other's existence in the way that movies once certified Binx's world. They make the here and now present for each other, and both are more settled and healthy in that here and now. Kate has grown sleek, and Binx is no longer beset by ineffable yearnings and desires. They are alive unlike the dead we see early in the novel and free of malaise. I love the epilogue, too. Have you read any other Percy novels? You might enjoy Love in the Ruins. --Rhonda "You live in a deranged age, more deranged than usual, because in spite of great scientific and technological advances, man has not the faintest idea of who he is or what he is doing." Walker Percy Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 12:25:06 -0700 From: janetcantor37 at yahoo.com To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org Subject: Re: [percy-l] The Moviegoer Thank you so much for your comments, Rhonda. There is one thing that I would appreciate getting more perspective on from experienced Percy readers. When Percy wrote the epilogue, did he intend for us to be uplifted? Did he intend for us to feel good about Binx and Kate or did he mean it to be depressiing and hopeless? It is easy to say why choose, which works often when a book is both funny and sad. But the end was very pleasing to me. I found it gorgeous. It really troubled me that so many had no hope for the couple. What did Percy want us to feel? Does the answer depend, as was suggested, on whether the reader has belief or not? That seems logical to me. Because many modern readers would find it trivial to bring that up. I found the ending spiritual and poetic. Janet --- On Fri, 10/15/10, RHONDA MCDONNELL wrote: From: RHONDA MCDONNELL wrote: From: RHONDA MCDONNELL Subject: Re: [percy-l] The Moviegoer To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" Date: Thursday, October 14, 2010, 12:10 AM Janet, thanks for your questions. I appreciated the succinctness of your comment, "This is a book of its time, post Becket, the existentialists, and the absurdists," for in that comment you gesture toward the answer of one of your own questions. Is the novel an existential book? Yes, Percy himself said that he intended it that way. Remember Binx's memory of becoming aware of his own hand while in Korea? He awakened to his own existence, something which was repeated in his post-military life and started him on his search. He is searching for a meaningful life, recognizing that most around him are not awake to their own existence. Instead, they are like the bourgeoisie and the humanists that Sartre mocks in Nausea. The difference, as my listmates have already pointed out is that Percy's existentialism is a Christian existentialism. But, as Binx says, he refuses to be edifying. He does, however, say that he will help others along their way. And in the scene with his siblings, he tells them the truth, as he always does. So when Therese (wasn't it her?) asks if Lonnie will be able to waterski in heaven and Binx answers yes, he is reaffirming their faith and the promise of the resurrection. That scene, by the way, was one that Percy said was an intentional nod to Dostoyevsky's The Brothers Karamozov, when the children all cheer for Alyosha. I too find the book hilarious--funnier every time I read it. I love that he calls the dog Rosebud. I love the description of the scientists as freckled brontosauruses. I love when Binx reflects that every time his aunt has a talk with him, he has to find a girl. His "This I Believe" bit cracks me up. And his dryness when he comments that his uncle is no Cato. I could go on and on, but you get the point. The epigraph should, I think, be understood in the context Kierkegaard placed it in. His The Sickness Unto Death ultimately defined despair as being out of the presence of God. In a later novel, Percy explains it as a homesickness for a home we don't realize we miss. But Binx is onto it, and that is what he is searching for. You wrote "he is carrying out normal activity and conversation, and no one having discourse with him, knows about his interior life. The only one who knows it all is his fellow mentally discomfited, Kate. In the end, he will accept everydayness as he takes care of Kate." I respectfully disagree. I see him like Kierkegaard's religious man, who was indistinguishable from his fellow citizens because the movement to the religious is internal. Rather than accepting everydayness, rather than choosing the Little Way, he has taken the absurd leap of faith that belief in God demands. One last thing, I think the enjoyment of the job, the secretaries, the movies, the library card, etc, is all an elaborate pose that he drops when he moves to a more religious way of thinking and seeing the world. In the epilogue, he says he doesn't go to the movies any more. --Rhonda "You live in a deranged age, more deranged than usual, because in spite of great scientific and technological advances, man has not the faintest idea of who he is or what he is doing." Walker Percy > From: jeriley at uark.edu > To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org > Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 21:18:56 +0000 > Subject: Re: [percy-l] The Moviegoer > > Janet: > > Thank you for the compliment-- I'm glad you found the comments helpful. And thank you for kick-starting a discussion on The Moviegoer, > which remains my favorite Percy novel, followed closely by The Last Gentleman, Love in the Ruins and Lancelot. Some of the later novels are > probably better as novels (i.e. works of art), but something about the way Percy handled the first-person narrative voice in The Moviegoer > connected with me when I first read it, and still does. > Are you familiar with the story of how the great writer A.J. Liebling "discovered" The Moviegoer while in New Orleans researching Huey > Long? Liebling's enthusiasm for the novel went a long way toward getting The MG nominated for--and winning--the National Book Award in 1962. > It's a great story (see Jay Tolson's biography). Luck never hurt, even for Walker Percy! > > Cheers, > > John Riley > Reference & Index Arkansas > Mullins Library > University of Arkansas > Fayetteville, Arkansas, USA > ________________________________________ > From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] on behalf of percy-l-request at lists.ibiblio.org [percy-l-request at lists.ibiblio.org] > Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2010 12:25 PM > To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: Percy-L Digest, Vol 78, Issue 7 > > Send Percy-L mailing list submissions to > percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/percy-l > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > percy-l-request at lists.ibiblio.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Percy-L digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Percy-L Digest, Vol 78, Issue 5 (janet cantor) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 14:45:55 -0700 (PDT) > From: janet cantor > To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" > > Subject: Re: [percy-l] Percy-L Digest, Vol 78, Issue 5 > Message-ID: <403839.24708.qm at web63607.mail.re1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Thank you, John, for these comments. They are valuable in keeping up the analysis of The Moviegoer. I especially like that you say you would keep away from anything described as a Christian morality tale, yet you consider this one of your favorite novels; and I liked your idea that a book is enough if it is a well written novel, which this one certainly is. > But best of all I value your insight? that we should "...remember in the epilogue Binx does say that he is "his mother's son after all."? I interpret that to mean that he has chosen the catholic faith over Aunt Emily's stoic philosophy." > That is excellent. > Janet > > --- On Tue, 10/12/10, John E. Riley wrote: > > From: John E. Riley > Subject: Re: [percy-l] Percy-L Digest, Vol 78, Issue 5 > To: "percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org" > Cc: "John E. Riley" > Date: Tuesday, October 12, 2010, 3:12 PM > > Janet: > > I like your reading of the novel and your questions at the end.? And I had to chuckle at your comment that > you are "merely a reader."? I feel sure that Walker Percy had great respect for his readers--he understood that > every writer needs readers; without readers, a writer's work is unfulfilled, exists in a vacuum. > > As to the question of whether The Moviegoer is an existentialist novel or a "Christian morality tale" as you think, > I believe it should be enough to say that it is a novel. The Moviegoer is a well-written novel, certainly, funny in its way, possibly a great novel; > If you connected with it at any level then that is enough, in my opinion.? The problem with labels and categories > is that they create pre-conceived ideas in people's minds.? Personally, I would stay far away from any novel described as > a "Christian morality tale" and yet the Moviegoer is one of my favorite novels. > > Aunt Emily is certainly central to the novel.? The reason Binx cannot speak of the search around her is that she > is so settled in, and persuasive about, her own perspective.? She does help in keeping Binx grounded, keeps him > from being some Jack Kerouac-like figure constantly roaming the earth.? He does not have much in common with Aunt > Emily, however.? It may be a generational thing.? But remember in the epilogue Binx does say that he is "his mother's son > after all."? I interpret that to mean that he has chosen the catholic faith over Aunt Emily's stoic philosophy. > > Kate certainly has her problems; she is depressed to the point of being a suicide risk (though she says at one point > that the thought of suicide is what keeps her going).? She would probably be diagnosed as bi-polar today.? Her > character reminds me of the book's epigraph, that the precise nature of despair is simply this: it is unaware of > being despair (I'm quoting from memory; I believe the saying was Kierkegaard's).? Kate is at least self-aware > enough to realize that something is seriously wrong.? What she can give to Binx is a "built-in bullshit detector" > (to paraphrase Hemingway; remember Binx says at one point that he believes in "a good kick in the ass"), > while Binx can obviously help Kate with the day-to-day challenges of concrete reality. > The beauty of any marriage relationship is that each person potentially has something to give to the other that helps complete > that person, make him or her a "better person" for lack of a better phrase.? So I see their marriage as on solid footing, > though it is obviously an open question regarding their future. > > Those are my thoughts.? I appreciate the fresh perspective you bring with your comments and questions. > Best of luck to you, Janet! > > John Riley > Reference & Index Arkansas > Mullins Library > University of Arkansas > Fayetteville, Arkansas, USA > ________________________________________ > From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] on behalf of percy-l-request at lists.ibiblio.org [percy-l-request at lists.ibiblio.org] > Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 3:53 AM > To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: Percy-L Digest, Vol 78, Issue 5 > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 01:48:31 -0700 (PDT) > From: janet cantor > To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: [percy-l] The Moviegoer - Please ignore my previous posts > Message-ID: <34801.9363.qm at web63607.mail.re1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Dear Percy-L, > > > > I am a 72 year old general reader and have numerous questions after > completing the Moviegoer. Please overlook my earlier posts to the list > as I am new to listservs in general. Please allow me to tell you of my > experience with the book. > > > > I read and reread the book. I led a discussion of it in my book group. > My reading was absolutely different from theirs. This stunned me. I > found the book funny, endearing and uplifting. They found it depressing > and hopeless. > > > > I include below two items I?d like to present to the list: 1) a personal > review I wrote about the MG for Amazon, and 2) the questions I still > have after exploring my thoughts about the book in my review. ?I intend > to edit my review after I have reread the book in the future and my > thoughts have become more clear. I am not a scholar, merely a reader. > > > > My overall question concerns that the book was written in the 50's. It > seems to me that it is not correct to read it narrowly from the > perspective of current attitudes. Please forgive any naivete I may bring > to my reading as present in my review. I will come back to the book in > about a year and see if I agree with myself. > > > > Rest assured any help or responses to this post that anyone can give me will be decidedly appreciated. > > > > Cheers, > > Janet Cantor > > > > > > MY PERSONAL AMAZON REVIEW > > A masterpiece, September 25, 2010 ? > > SPOILER ALERT. Do not read this review until after you have finished the book and considered it for yourself. > > > > If fifteen people read and reviewed The Moviegoer, > they could create fifteen different descriptions of it. If one person > read it a year later, he could write a completely different review of it > from the one he wrote the year before. It all depends on what is > emphasized, the southernness, New Orleans, > the story of ancestries, the blacks and whites or the relationship of > the story to Kierkegard. There are so many aspects of the novel to > consider. > > This is a funny book, an endearing book. The writing is gasp inducing gorgeous. > > This is a book of its time, post Becket, the existentialists, and the > absurdists. It follows a half century of the realization of the great > scale of the horror man is capable of perpetrating on his fellow men. Salinger has been writing about teenage angst. Yet, while it is so relevant to the late nineteen fifties, Binx's story finds resonance to this day. > > It is ?funny to read how Binx plots to make his secretary fall in love > with him. The descriptions of movies and their use to him and how he > makes a movie house more real are wonderful. Look on page 216 for a line > that gives the reader pause on the subject of the title. > > ?Binx's elaborate descriptions of the components of his search make up a > good portion of the story. Yet every time he is with Aunt Emily, he > either can't talk about it or it seems to be smaller in importance. And > in the face of Aunt Emily's big rant at him in part five, he understands > that he is finished with his search. > > His search, he tells us, is to forestall the everydayness; in his head he criticizes other people who are satisfied with ordinary lives. > All the while he is thinking and working out the details of his search, > he is carrying out normal activity and conversation, and no one having > discourse with him, knows about his interior life. The only one who > knows it all is his fellow mentally discomfited, Kate. In the end, he > will accept everydayness as he takes care of Kate. > > It is a great theme in a lot of literature, the concept of coming home. Ulysses, The Wizard of Oz, > Pippin, the musical, where he realizes he is not extraordinary and will > settle as man, woman, child in an every day existence, and Candide, who > after his upsetting adventures will join with his love and just make > his garden grow. And so it is here. The epilogue may be one of the most > gorgeous things I have ever read. Tender, quiet, accepting; Kate and > Binx will make it, I believe. > > The book is described as an existential novel. What kind of existential > protagonist loves his job, loves making money, and goes to great lengths > to protect his clients' accounts? What kind of existential character > loves others, his half brother, Lonnie and Aunt Emily? He even has a kind of love for minor characters like Mr. Kinsella and the ladies in ticket booths. And Kate and Binx have a kind of love for each other. > > This book doesn't seem to be an existential novel as much as a rebuke to the existentialists. Walker Percy > seems to be saying to them, "Come off it. Get with the program. It's > enough already." ?Aunt Emily as she scolds Binx in Part Five represents > this. > > To discuss this book and leave out Aunt Emily is to forget someone > central to it all. For this reader she is most important of all for > Binx. It is his love of her, he even enjoys it when she scolds him, that > keeps him from going off the deep end. And her brilliantly written big > rebuke at the end is what saves him from himself. One is reminded of the > biblical verse that says now I am become a man and must put away childish things. > > One is reminded of another biblical verse when the book is over. And now > abideth faith, hope and charity (love) but the greatest of these is > charity. > > Lonnie's Faith is pure and perfect. The scenes between Lonnie and Binx > are utterly exquisite. Binx couldn't care less about religion, yet his > love of Lonnie makes him happy and interested as Lonnie describes his > faith to him. And when Lonnie tells Binx he is taking his communion for > Binx, that is a spectacular moment. > > Hope? Is there hope for Binx? I think so and I think Walker Percy thinks so, too. > > And, as has already been noted, love runs throughout the novel. > > I don't think this is an existential novel. I think it is a Christian Morality Tale. > > ??? > > MY OUTSTANDING QUESTIONS > > Is the book an existential book, contrary to what I thought? > Is Aunt Emily as important to the story as I thought? > Is his half brother as important as I thought and are the scenes with him as gorgeous as I found them? > Is the book meant to be funny and endearing or depressing? > Is > the end meant to be uplifting or are they destined for the divorce > court in a few months as so many have suggested to me? Here's how I read > the end. There was a line in the book when they were in Chicago > and Kate declared that she knew how she could live in a big city - if > Binx told her what to do. So when he is taking care of his siblings (a > repetition of when his aunt comforted him when his brother, Scott, died) > and he needs Kate to do his business for him, he tells her what to do. I > just loved that. > Is > Kate simply a bipolar person? Or did Aunt Emily restrict her freedom > and self expression so much that she became mad? This last was not my > impression. It was what someone suggested to me. I saw no evidence of > that. Is that in the book? > > > > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Percy-L mailing list > Percy-L at lists.ibiblio.org > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/percy-l > > > End of Percy-L Digest, Vol 78, Issue 5 > ************************************** > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Percy-L mailing list > Percy-L at lists.ibiblio.org > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/percy-l > > > End of Percy-L Digest, Vol 78, Issue 7 > ************************************** > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) -----Inline Attachment Follows----- -- An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) -- An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) -----Inline Attachment Follows----- -- An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) -- An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From janetcantor37 at yahoo.com Wed Oct 20 08:17:01 2010 From: janetcantor37 at yahoo.com (janet cantor) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 05:17:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [percy-l] The Moviegoer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <709139.8659.qm@web63607.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Dear Rhonda, How I enjoy being validated! And to be validated from someone on the Percy Lists! As I said before, when they are in Chicago, Kate declares that she knows how she could live in a big city - if Binx would tell her what to do. So that is what he does in the epilogue and it comforts her and makes her feel anchored. Your idea about certification is so good. In time I will be reading more Percy. I seem to have found someone who has stirred me much to my surprise. My first reading of The Moviegoer made me think this was a funny, sweet, simple book. It was subsequent readings that showed me how wrong I was about its simplicity. When I read Percy again, I will come back to the lists and let you know my reaction and seek more communication. How wonderful that I found you. Janet --- On Mon, 10/18/10, RHONDA MCDONNELL wrote: From: RHONDA MCDONNELL Subject: Re: [percy-l] The Moviegoer To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" Date: Monday, October 18, 2010, 10:44 PM Janice, I'm with you! I think Kate and Binx in are a good place at the novel's end.? Sure, it's a product of his time, and some people have taken offense to Binx's telling Kate what to do, but in the end, they certify each other's existence in the way that movies once certified Binx's world.? They make the here and now present for each other, and both are more settled and healthy in that here and now. Kate has grown sleek, and Binx is no longer beset by ineffable yearnings and desires. They are alive unlike the dead we see early in the novel and free of malaise.? I love the epilogue, too.? Have you read any other Percy novels? You might enjoy Love in the Ruins. --Rhonda "You live in a deranged age, more deranged than usual, because in spite of great scientific and technological advances, man has not the faintest idea of who he is or what he is doing." ?? ??????????????????????????????????? Walker Percy Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 12:25:06 -0700 From: janetcantor37 at yahoo.com To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org Subject: Re: [percy-l] The Moviegoer Thank you so much for your comments, Rhonda. ? There is one thing that I would appreciate getting? more perspective on from experienced Percy readers. When Percy wrote the epilogue, did he intend for us to be uplifted? Did he intend for us to feel good about?Binx and Kate or did he mean it to be depressiing and hopeless? It is easy to say why choose, which works often when a book is both funny and sad. But the end was very pleasing to me. I found it gorgeous. It really troubled me that so many had no hope for the couple. What did Percy want us to feel? Does the answer depend, as was suggested, on whether the reader has belief or not? That seems logical to me. Because many modern readers would find it trivial to bring that up. I found the ending spiritual and poetic. Janet ? ? --- On Fri, 10/15/10, RHONDA MCDONNELL wrote: From: RHONDA MCDONNELL wrote: From: RHONDA MCDONNELL Subject: Re: [percy-l] The Moviegoer To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" Date: Thursday, October 14, 2010, 12:10 AM #yiv1264756550 .yiv1264756550ExternalClass #yiv1264756550ecxyiv597610209 .yiv1264756550ecxyiv597610209ExternalClass #yiv1264756550ecxyiv597610209ecxyiv263626057 .yiv1264756550ecxyiv597610209ecxyiv263626057hmmessage P {padding:0px;} #yiv1264756550 .yiv1264756550ExternalClass #yiv1264756550ecxyiv597610209 .yiv1264756550ecxyiv597610209ExternalClass #yiv1264756550ecxyiv597610209ecxyiv263626057 .yiv1264756550ecxyiv597610209ecxyiv263626057hmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;} Janet, thanks for your questions. I appreciated the succinctness of your comment, "This is a book of its time, post Becket, the existentialists, and the absurdists," for in that comment you gesture toward the answer of one of your own questions.? Is the novel an existential book? Yes, Percy himself said that he intended it that way. Remember Binx's memory of becoming aware of his own hand while in Korea?? He awakened to his own existence, something which was repeated in his post-military life and started him on his search. He is searching for a meaningful life, recognizing that most around him are not awake to their own existence. Instead, they are like the bourgeoisie and the humanists that Sartre mocks in Nausea. The difference, as my listmates have already pointed out is that Percy's existentialism is a Christian existentialism. But, as Binx says, he refuses to be edifying. He does, however, say that he will help others along their way. And in the scene with his siblings, he tells them the truth, as he always does. So when Therese (wasn't it her?) asks if Lonnie will be able to waterski in heaven and Binx answers yes, he is reaffirming their faith and the promise of the resurrection.? That scene, by the way, was one that Percy said was an intentional nod to Dostoyevsky's The Brothers Karamozov, when the children all cheer for Alyosha.? I too find the book hilarious--funnier every time I read it. I love that he calls the dog Rosebud. I love the description of the scientists as freckled brontosauruses. I love when Binx reflects that every time his aunt has a talk with him, he has to find a girl. His "This I Believe" bit cracks me up.? And his dryness when he comments that his uncle is no Cato.? I could go on and on, but you get the point. The epigraph should, I think, be understood in the context Kierkegaard placed it in. His The Sickness Unto Death ultimately defined despair as being out of the presence of God. In a later novel, Percy explains it as a homesickness for a home we don't realize we miss.? But Binx is onto it, and that is what he is searching for. You wrote "he is carrying out normal activity and conversation, and no one having discourse with him, knows about his interior life. The only one who? knows it all is his fellow mentally discomfited, Kate. In the end, he will accept everydayness as he takes care of Kate." I respectfully disagree. I see him like Kierkegaard's religious man, who was indistinguishable from his fellow citizens because the movement to the religious is internal.? Rather than accepting everydayness, rather than choosing the Little Way, he has taken the absurd leap of faith that belief in God demands. One last thing, I think the enjoyment of the job, the secretaries, the movies, the library card, etc, is all an elaborate pose that he drops when he moves to a more religious way of thinking and seeing the world. In the epilogue, he says he doesn't go to the movies any more. --Rhonda "You live in a deranged age, more deranged than usual, because in spite of great scientific and technological advances, man has not the faintest idea of who he is or what he is doing." ?? ??????????????????????????????????? Walker Percy > From: jeriley at uark.edu > To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org > Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 21:18:56 +0000 > Subject: Re: [percy-l] The Moviegoer > > Janet: > > Thank you for the compliment-- I'm glad you found the comments helpful. And thank you for kick-starting a discussion on The Moviegoer, > which remains my favorite Percy novel, followed closely by The Last Gentleman, Love in the Ruins and Lancelot. Some of the later novels are > probably better as novels (i.e. works of art), but something about the way Percy handled the first-person narrative voice in The Moviegoer > connected with me when I first read it, and still does. > Are you familiar with the story of how the great writer A.J. Liebling "discovered" The Moviegoer while in New Orleans researching Huey > Long? Liebling's enthusiasm for the novel went a long way toward getting The MG nominated for--and winning--the National Book Award in 1962. > It's a great story (see Jay Tolson's biography). Luck never hurt, even for Walker Percy! > > Cheers, > > John Riley > Reference & Index Arkansas > Mullins Library > University of Arkansas > Fayetteville, Arkansas, USA > ________________________________________ > From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] on behalf of percy-l-request at lists.ibiblio.org [percy-l-request at lists.ibiblio.org] > Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2010 12:25 PM > To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: Percy-L Digest, Vol 78, Issue 7 > > Send Percy-L mailing list submissions to > percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/percy-l > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > percy-l-request at lists.ibiblio.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Percy-L digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Percy-L Digest, Vol 78, Issue 5 (janet cantor) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 14:45:55 -0700 (PDT) > From: janet cantor > To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" > > Subject: Re: [percy-l] Percy-L Digest, Vol 78, Issue 5 > Message-ID: <403839.24708.qm at web63607.mail.re1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Thank you, John, for these comments. They are valuable in keeping up the analysis of The Moviegoer. I especially like that you say you would keep away from anything described as a Christian morality tale, yet you consider this one of your favorite novels; and I liked your idea that a book is enough if it is a well written novel, which this one certainly is. > But best of all I value your insight? that we should "...remember in the epilogue Binx does say that he is "his mother's son after all."? I interpret that to mean that he has chosen the catholic faith over Aunt Emily's stoic philosophy." > That is excellent. > Janet > > --- On Tue, 10/12/10, John E. Riley wrote: > > From: John E. Riley > Subject: Re: [percy-l] Percy-L Digest, Vol 78, Issue 5 > To: "percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org" > Cc: "John E. Riley" > Date: Tuesday, October 12, 2010, 3:12 PM > > Janet: > > I like your reading of the novel and your questions at the end.? And I had to chuckle at your comment that > you are "merely a reader."? I feel sure that Walker Percy had great respect for his readers--he understood that > every writer needs readers; without readers, a writer's work is unfulfilled, exists in a vacuum. > > As to the question of whether The Moviegoer is an existentialist novel or a "Christian morality tale" as you think, > I believe it should be enough to say that it is a novel. The Moviegoer is a well-written novel, certainly, funny in its way, possibly a great novel; > If you connected with it at any level then that is enough, in my opinion.? The problem with labels and categories > is that they create pre-conceived ideas in people's minds.? Personally, I would stay far away from any novel described as > a "Christian morality tale" and yet the Moviegoer is one of my favorite novels. > > Aunt Emily is certainly central to the novel.? The reason Binx cannot speak of the search around her is that she > is so settled in, and persuasive about, her own perspective.? She does help in keeping Binx grounded, keeps him > from being some Jack Kerouac-like figure constantly roaming the earth.? He does not have much in common with Aunt > Emily, however.? It may be a generational thing.? But remember in the epilogue Binx does say that he is "his mother's son > after all."? I interpret that to mean that he has chosen the catholic faith over Aunt Emily's stoic philosophy. > > Kate certainly has her problems; she is depressed to the point of being a suicide risk (though she says at one point > that the thought of suicide is what keeps her going).? She would probably be diagnosed as bi-polar today.? Her > character reminds me of the book's epigraph, that the precise nature of despair is simply this: it is unaware of > being despair (I'm quoting from memory; I believe the saying was Kierkegaard's).? Kate is at least self-aware > enough to realize that something is seriously wrong.? What she can give to Binx is a "built-in bullshit detector" > (to paraphrase Hemingway; remember Binx says at one point that he believes in "a good kick in the ass"), > while Binx can obviously help Kate with the day-to-day challenges of concrete reality. > The beauty of any marriage relationship is that each person potentially has something to give to the other that helps complete > that person, make him or her a "better person" for lack of a better phrase.? So I see their marriage as on solid footing, > though it is obviously an open question regarding their future. > > Those are my thoughts.? I appreciate the fresh perspective you bring with your comments and questions. > Best of luck to you, Janet! > > John Riley > Reference & Index Arkansas > Mullins Library > University of Arkansas > Fayetteville, Arkansas, USA > ________________________________________ > From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] on behalf of percy-l-request at lists.ibiblio.org [percy-l-request at lists.ibiblio.org] > Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 3:53 AM > To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: Percy-L Digest, Vol 78, Issue 5 > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 01:48:31 -0700 (PDT) > From: janet cantor > To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: [percy-l] The Moviegoer - Please ignore my previous posts > Message-ID: <34801.9363.qm at web63607.mail.re1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Dear Percy-L, > > > > I am a 72 year old general reader and have numerous questions after > completing the Moviegoer. Please overlook my earlier posts to the list > as I am new to listservs in general. Please allow me to tell you of my > experience with the book. > > > > I read and reread the book. I led a discussion of it in my book group. > My reading was absolutely different from theirs. This stunned me. I > found the book funny, endearing and uplifting. They found it depressing > and hopeless. > > > > I include below two items I?d like to present to the list: 1) a personal > review I wrote about the MG for Amazon, and 2) the questions I still > have after exploring my thoughts about the book in my review. ?I intend > to edit my review after I have reread the book in the future and my > thoughts have become more clear. I am not a scholar, merely a reader. > > > > My overall question concerns that the book was written in the 50's. It > seems to me that it is not correct to read it narrowly from the > perspective of current attitudes. Please forgive any naivete I may bring > to my reading as present in my review. I will come back to the book in > about a year and see if I agree with myself. > > > > Rest assured any help or responses to this post that anyone can give me will be decidedly appreciated. > > > > Cheers, > > Janet Cantor > > > > > > MY PERSONAL AMAZON REVIEW > > A masterpiece, September 25, 2010 ? > > SPOILER ALERT. Do not read this review until after you have finished the book and considered it for yourself. > > > > If fifteen people read and reviewed The Moviegoer, > they could create fifteen different descriptions of it. If one person > read it a year later, he could write a completely different review of it > from the one he wrote the year before. It all depends on what is > emphasized, the southernness, New Orleans, > the story of ancestries, the blacks and whites or the relationship of > the story to Kierkegard. There are so many aspects of the novel to > consider. > > This is a funny book, an endearing book. The writing is gasp inducing gorgeous. > > This is a book of its time, post Becket, the existentialists, and the > absurdists. It follows a half century of the realization of the great > scale of the horror man is capable of perpetrating on his fellow men. Salinger has been writing about teenage angst. Yet, while it is so relevant to the late nineteen fifties, Binx's story finds resonance to this day. > > It is ?funny to read how Binx plots to make his secretary fall in love > with him. The descriptions of movies and their use to him and how he > makes a movie house more real are wonderful. Look on page 216 for a line > that gives the reader pause on the subject of the title. > > ?Binx's elaborate descriptions of the components of his search make up a > good portion of the story. Yet every time he is with Aunt Emily, he > either can't talk about it or it seems to be smaller in importance. And > in the face of Aunt Emily's big rant at him in part five, he understands > that he is finished with his search. > > His search, he tells us, is to forestall the everydayness; in his head he criticizes other people who are satisfied with ordinary lives. > All the while he is thinking and working out the details of his search, > he is carrying out normal activity and conversation, and no one having > discourse with him, knows about his interior life. The only one who > knows it all is his fellow mentally discomfited, Kate. In the end, he > will accept everydayness as he takes care of Kate. > > It is a great theme in a lot of literature, the concept of coming home. Ulysses, The Wizard of Oz, > Pippin, the musical, where he realizes he is not extraordinary and will > settle as man, woman, child in an every day existence, and Candide, who > after his upsetting adventures will join with his love and just make > his garden grow. And so it is here. The epilogue may be one of the most > gorgeous things I have ever read. Tender, quiet, accepting; Kate and > Binx will make it, I believe. > > The book is described as an existential novel. What kind of existential > protagonist loves his job, loves making money, and goes to great lengths > to protect his clients' accounts? What kind of existential character > loves others, his half brother, Lonnie and Aunt Emily? He even has a kind of love for minor characters like Mr. Kinsella and the ladies in ticket booths. And Kate and Binx have a kind of love for each other. > > This book doesn't seem to be an existential novel as much as a rebuke to the existentialists. Walker Percy > seems to be saying to them, "Come off it. Get with the program. It's > enough already." ?Aunt Emily as she scolds Binx in Part Five represents > this. > > To discuss this book and leave out Aunt Emily is to forget someone > central to it all. For this reader she is most important of all for > Binx. It is his love of her, he even enjoys it when she scolds him, that > keeps him from going off the deep end. And her brilliantly written big > rebuke at the end is what saves him from himself. One is reminded of the > biblical verse that says now I am become a man and must put away childish things. > > One is reminded of another biblical verse when the book is over. And now > abideth faith, hope and charity (love) but the greatest of these is > charity. > > Lonnie's Faith is pure and perfect. The scenes between Lonnie and Binx > are utterly exquisite. Binx couldn't care less about religion, yet his > love of Lonnie makes him happy and interested as Lonnie describes his > faith to him. And when Lonnie tells Binx he is taking his communion for > Binx, that is a spectacular moment. > > Hope? Is there hope for Binx? I think so and I think Walker Percy thinks so, too. > > And, as has already been noted, love runs throughout the novel. > > I don't think this is an existential novel. I think it is a Christian Morality Tale. > > ??? > > MY OUTSTANDING QUESTIONS > > Is the book an existential book, contrary to what I thought? > Is Aunt Emily as important to the story as I thought? > Is his half brother as important as I thought and are the scenes with him as gorgeous as I found them? > Is the book meant to be funny and endearing or depressing? > Is > the end meant to be uplifting or are they destined for the divorce > court in a few months as so many have suggested to me? Here's how I read > the end. There was a line in the book when they were in Chicago > and Kate declared that she knew how she could live in a big city - if > Binx told her what to do. So when he is taking care of his siblings (a > repetition of when his aunt comforted him when his brother, Scott, died) > and he needs Kate to do his business for him, he tells her what to do. I > just loved that. > Is > Kate simply a bipolar person? Or did Aunt Emily restrict her freedom > and self expression so much that she became mad? This last was not my > impression. It was what someone suggested to me. I saw no evidence of > that. Is that in the book? > > > > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Percy-L mailing list > Percy-L at lists.ibiblio.org > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/percy-l > > > End of Percy-L Digest, Vol 78, Issue 5 > ************************************** > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Percy-L mailing list > Percy-L at lists.ibiblio.org > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/percy-l > > > End of Percy-L Digest, Vol 78, Issue 7 > ************************************** > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) -----Inline Attachment Follows----- -- An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) -- An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) -----Inline Attachment Follows----- -- An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) -- An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) -----Inline Attachment Follows----- -- An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From m.smith at ciceducation.org Wed Oct 27 05:12:24 2010 From: m.smith at ciceducation.org (Margaret Smith) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 10:12:24 +0100 (BST) Subject: [percy-l] CICE-2011: Call for Papers! Message-ID: <369807455.76992.1288170744964.JavaMail.open-xchange@oxltgw03.schlund.de> Apologies for cross-postings. Kindly email this call for papers to your colleagues, faculty members and postgraduate students. CALL FOR PAPERS Canada International Conference on Education (CICE-2011), April 4-7, 2011, Toronto, Canada (www.ciceducation.org) The CICE is an international refereed conference dedicated to the advancement of the theory and practices in education. The CICE promotes collaborative excellence between academicians and professionals from Education. The aim of CICE is to provide an opportunity for academicians and professionals from various educational fields with cross-disciplinary interests to bridge the knowledge gap, promote research esteem and the evolution of pedagogy. The CICE 2011 invites research papers that encompass conceptual analysis, design implementation and performance evaluation. All the accepted papers will appear in the proceedings and modified version of selected papers will be published in special issues peer reviewed journals. The topics in CICE-2011 include but are not confined to the following areas: *Academic Advising and Counselling *Art Education *Adult Education *APD/Listening and Acoustics in Education Environment *Business Education *Counsellor Education *Curriculum, Research and Development *Competitive Skills *Continuing Education *Distance Education *Early Childhood Education *Educational Administration *Educational Foundations *Educational Psychology *Educational Technology *Education Policy and Leadership *Elementary Education *E-Learning *E-Manufacturing *ESL/TESL *E-Society *Geographical Education *Geographic information systems *Health Education *Higher Education *History *Home Education *Human Computer Interaction *Human Resource Development *Indigenous Education *ICT Education *Internet technologies *Imaginative Education *Kinesiology & Leisure Science *K12 *Language Education *Mathematics Education *Mobile Applications *Multi-Virtual Environment *Music Education *Pedagogy *Physical Education (PE) *Reading Education *Writing Education *Religion and Education Studies *Research Assessment Exercise (RAE) *Rural Education *Science Education *Secondary Education *Second life Educators *Social Studies Education *Special Education *Student Affairs *Teacher Education *Cross-disciplinary areas of Education *Ubiquitous Computing *Virtual Reality *Wireless applications *Other Areas of Education ? Important Dates: *Research Paper, Case Study, Work in Progress and Report Submission Deadline: December 15, 2010 *Notification of Paper, Case Study, Work in Progress and Report Acceptance Date: December 28, 2010 *Final Paper Submission Deadline for Conference Proceedings Publication: March 1, 2011 *Participant(s) Registration (Open): November 20, 2010 *Author(s) Early Bird Registration Deadline: January 31, 2011 *Author(s) Late Bird Registration Deadline: March 4, 2011 *Conference Dates: April 4-7, 2011 For further information please visit CICE-2011 at www.ciceducation.org ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hpmills3 at austin.rr.com Wed Oct 27 19:21:39 2010 From: hpmills3 at austin.rr.com (Henry Mills) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 18:21:39 -0500 Subject: [percy-l] Cross-posting Guidelines In-Reply-To: <369807455.76992.1288170744964.JavaMail.open-xchange@oxltgw03.schlund.de> Message-ID: Margaret and all, Cross-postings are not disallowed on Percy-L, but unless they pertain to topics at least partially related to Percy or his work/interests, please clear them with me as the list moderator at percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org before submitting them to Percy-L as a body. I refer you again to the stated mission of Percy-L as found in the Percy-L Guidelines as quoted below. All list participants should proceed with common courtesy in what we ask of our fellow Percy community members? time and attention. > ?The Percy-L forum is open to the discussion of all topics pertaining to the > work and thought of the American novelist and philosopher Walker Percy. > Students, general readers, and scholars are all welcome, as well as simply the > curious. There is no standing agenda for the list except the promotion of > commentary of the sort that one would expect from people with a special > interest in Percy. As such, the list will remain unmoderated unless some > future reason requires it. A diverse range of critical perspectives is > therefore welcomed, if not encouraged, as long as the manner and method of > expression are responsible and respectful of the parties they are addressed > to, as well as the larger list membership as a whole.? Best regards, Henry Mills Percy-L Moderator From: Margaret Smith Reply-To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 10:12:24 +0100 (BST) To: Subject: [percy-l] CICE-2011: Call for Papers! Apologies for cross-postings. Kindly email this call for papers to your colleagues, faculty members and postgraduate students. CALL FOR PAPERS Canada International Conference on Education (CICE-2011), April 4-7, 2011, Toronto, Canada (www.ciceducation.org) The CICE is an international refereed conference dedicated to the advancement of the theory and practices in education. The CICE promotes collaborative excellence between academicians and professionals from Education. The aim of CICE is to provide an opportunity for academicians and professionals from various educational fields with cross-disciplinary interests to bridge the knowledge gap, promote research esteem and the evolution of pedagogy. The CICE 2011 invites research papers that encompass conceptual analysis, design implementation and performance evaluation. All the accepted papers will appear in the proceedings and modified version of selected papers will be published in special issues peer reviewed journals. The topics in CICE-2011 include but are not confined to the following areas: *Academic Advising and Counselling *Art Education *Adult Education *APD/Listening and Acoustics in Education Environment *Business Education *Counsellor Education *Curriculum, Research and Development *Competitive Skills *Continuing Education *Distance Education *Early Childhood Education *Educational Administration *Educational Foundations *Educational Psychology *Educational Technology *Education Policy and Leadership *Elementary Education *E-Learning *E-Manufacturing *ESL/TESL *E-Society *Geographical Education *Geographic information systems *Health Education *Higher Education *History *Home Education *Human Computer Interaction *Human Resource Development *Indigenous Education *ICT Education *Internet technologies *Imaginative Education *Kinesiology & Leisure Science *K12 *Language Education *Mathematics Education *Mobile Applications *Multi-Virtual Environment *Music Education *Pedagogy *Physical Education (PE) *Reading Education *Writing Education *Religion and Education Studies *Research Assessment Exercise (RAE) *Rural Education *Science Education *Secondary Education *Second life Educators *Social Studies Education *Special Education *Student Affairs *Teacher Education *Cross-disciplinary areas of Education *Ubiquitous Computing *Virtual Reality *Wireless applications *Other Areas of Education ? Important Dates: *Research Paper, Case Study, Work in Progress and Report Submission Deadline: December 15, 2010 *Notification of Paper, Case Study, Work in Progress and Report Acceptance Date: December 28, 2010 *Final Paper Submission Deadline for Conference Proceedings Publication: March 1, 2011 *Participant(s) Registration (Open): November 20, 2010 *Author(s) Early Bird Registration Deadline: January 31, 2011 *Author(s) Late Bird Registration Deadline: March 4, 2011 *Conference Dates: April 4-7, 2011 For further information please visit CICE-2011 at www.ciceducation.org ? -- An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: