From alexbell25 at tamu.edu Wed Oct 10 15:12:47 2012 From: alexbell25 at tamu.edu (Alex Bell) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 14:12:47 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [percy-l] Percy-L Digest, Vol 96, Issue 4 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1716754669.1035221.1349896366994.JavaMail.root@neo.tamu.edu> hello all, I'm a English graduate student at Texas A&M, and i have a question that hopefully can be answered (or at least assuaged) with consensus. In _Love in the Ruins_ Tom More repeatedly reminisces on his dead wife Doris. we are told that she was a highly principled yet non-religious woman (i believe he refers to her as an ex-episcopalian who found interest in eastern religion). Ellen Oglethorpe, Dr More's secretary and eventual lover, is the referred to in a similar fashion-- a Presbyterian who has "no use" for God, but who adheres to a strict moral code. How then are we to differentiate these women (if we even are to do so), especially in regards to their effect on More? can More's "choosing" of Ellen be a return to a previous state of life--life before the loss of his child--or is there as subtle difference between Doris and Ellen which i am missing? thank you in advance for any enlightenment Alex Bell From joshuaemrich at yahoo.com Wed Oct 10 16:18:08 2012 From: joshuaemrich at yahoo.com (Joshua) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 13:18:08 -0700 Subject: [percy-l] Percy-L Digest, Vol 96, Issue 4 In-Reply-To: <1716754669.1035221.1349896366994.JavaMail.root@neo.tamu.edu> References: <1716754669.1035221.1349896366994.JavaMail.root@neo.tamu.edu> Message-ID: <7719C8C3-8233-4C8C-905F-09646780EBF9@yahoo.com> They are 2 different women. And questions can be dumb. Sent from my iPhone On Oct 10, 2012, at 12:12 PM, Alex Bell wrote: > hello all, > > I'm a English graduate student at Texas A&M, and i have a question that hopefully can be answered (or at least assuaged) with consensus. In _Love in the Ruins_ Tom More repeatedly reminisces on his dead wife Doris. we are told that she was a highly principled yet non-religious woman (i believe he refers to her as an ex-episcopalian who found interest in eastern religion). Ellen Oglethorpe, Dr More's secretary and eventual lover, is the referred to in a similar fashion-- a Presbyterian who has "no use" for God, but who adheres to a strict moral code. How then are we to differentiate these women (if we even are to do so), especially in regards to their effect on More? can More's "choosing" of Ellen be a return to a previous state of life--life before the loss of his child--or is there as subtle difference between Doris and Ellen which i am missing? > > > thank you in advance for any enlightenment > > Alex Bell > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) From gregcamacho8 at gmail.com Wed Oct 10 17:36:04 2012 From: gregcamacho8 at gmail.com (Greg Camacho) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 16:36:04 -0500 Subject: [percy-l] Percy-L Digest, Vol 96, Issue 4 In-Reply-To: <7719C8C3-8233-4C8C-905F-09646780EBF9@yahoo.com> References: <1716754669.1035221.1349896366994.JavaMail.root@neo.tamu.edu> <7719C8C3-8233-4C8C-905F-09646780EBF9@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Really, Joshua? On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 3:18 PM, Joshua wrote: > They are 2 different women. And questions can be dumb. > > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Oct 10, 2012, at 12:12 PM, Alex Bell wrote: > > > hello all, > > > > I'm a English graduate student at Texas A&M, and i have a question that > hopefully can be answered (or at least assuaged) with consensus. In _Love > in the Ruins_ Tom More repeatedly reminisces on his dead wife Doris. we are > told that she was a highly principled yet non-religious woman (i believe he > refers to her as an ex-episcopalian who found interest in eastern > religion). Ellen Oglethorpe, Dr More's secretary and eventual lover, is the > referred to in a similar fashion-- a Presbyterian who has "no use" for God, > but who adheres to a strict moral code. How then are we to differentiate > these women (if we even are to do so), especially in regards to their > effect on More? can More's "choosing" of Ellen be a return to a previous > state of life--life before the loss of his child--or is there as subtle > difference between Doris and Ellen which i am missing? > > > > > > thank you in advance for any enlightenment > > > > Alex Bell > > -- > > An archive of all list discussion is available at > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > > > Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > > > Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ > sign when addressing email) > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ > sign when addressing email) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From janetcantor37 at yahoo.com Wed Oct 10 17:55:19 2012 From: janetcantor37 at yahoo.com (janetcantor37 at yahoo.com) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 14:55:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [percy-l] Percy-L Digest, Vol 96, Issue 4 Message-ID: <1349906119.96968.YahooMailClassic@web141104.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> No need to be smarmy. Ruins goes to great lengths to describe the varied beliefs and religious choices of the locals. You meet along the way many goofy characters who justify their specific nuttiness. I love Percy's descriptions of each one. All this is in service to a story which wants the reader to confront his own ideas of religion and good and evil. ?Tom's loss of Doris and the story of how he lost her are examples of what has made him adrift. Though it can be read as sad, there is a joke in the new guy that comes along to steal her away. It is the new age "religion" that attracts Doris or distracts her from the loss of their child. So much in Ruins and in other Percy is mocking people's beliefs and how they come by them. It was the way Percy described her leaving that I remember as written with tongue in cheek. Perhaps my impression is wrong. Ellen's deliberate lack of religion does not detract from her being just the right one for Tom at the end. Her steadiness is what he needs. And after all the nonsense of the characters and story in Ruins, she represents calm and order. He has found his love in the ruins. I always love the way Percy ends his books. Be sure when you read Percy to give yourself permission to laugh. He wants to take you on? a wild ride and bring you home to predictability. Every one of his novels offers some form of love, of caring for someone else, at the end. Relax and enjoy the journey. Janet Cantor They are 2 different women. And questions can be dumb. (Joshua) > hello all, > > I'm a English graduate student at Texas A&M, and i have a question that hopefully can be answered (or at least assuaged) with consensus. In _Love in the Ruins_ Tom More repeatedly reminisces on his dead wife Doris. we are told that she was a highly principled yet non-religious woman (i believe he refers to her as an ex-episcopalian who found interest in eastern religion). Ellen Oglethorpe, Dr More's secretary and eventual lover, is the referred to in a similar fashion-- a Presbyterian who has "no use" for God, but who adheres to a strict moral code. How then are we to differentiate these women (if we even are to do so), especially in regards to their effect on More? can More's "choosing" of Ellen be a return to a previous state of life--life before the loss of his child--or is there as subtle difference between Doris and Ellen which i am missing? > > > thank you in advance for any enlightenment > > Alex Bell > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) -- An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scholler at gmail.com Wed Oct 10 17:57:54 2012 From: scholler at gmail.com (Seth C. Holler) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 14:57:54 -0700 Subject: [percy-l] Percy-L Digest, Vol 96, Issue 4 In-Reply-To: <7719C8C3-8233-4C8C-905F-09646780EBF9@yahoo.com> References: <1716754669.1035221.1349896366994.JavaMail.root@neo.tamu.edu> <7719C8C3-8233-4C8C-905F-09646780EBF9@yahoo.com> Message-ID: What an unhelpful first reply... :( Alex: You might rethink your reading of both women as essentially irreligious. Doris is "ruined" by good clean books celebrating "high places." She isn't irreligious; she loses her religion. -- Seth C. Holler, Ph.D. candidate Graduate Associate in Teaching English Dept. The University of Arizona On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 1:18 PM, Joshua wrote: > They are 2 different women. And questions can be dumb. > > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Oct 10, 2012, at 12:12 PM, Alex Bell wrote: > > > hello all, > > > > I'm a English graduate student at Texas A&M, and i have a question that > hopefully can be answered (or at least assuaged) with consensus. In _Love > in the Ruins_ Tom More repeatedly reminisces on his dead wife Doris. we are > told that she was a highly principled yet non-religious woman (i believe he > refers to her as an ex-episcopalian who found interest in eastern > religion). Ellen Oglethorpe, Dr More's secretary and eventual lover, is the > referred to in a similar fashion-- a Presbyterian who has "no use" for God, > but who adheres to a strict moral code. How then are we to differentiate > these women (if we even are to do so), especially in regards to their > effect on More? can More's "choosing" of Ellen be a return to a previous > state of life--life before the loss of his child--or is there as subtle > difference between Doris and Ellen which i am missing? > > > > > > thank you in advance for any enlightenment > > > > Alex Bell > > -- > > An archive of all list discussion is available at > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > > > Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > > > Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ > sign when addressing email) > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ > sign when addressing email) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From joshuaemrich at yahoo.com Wed Oct 10 18:04:32 2012 From: joshuaemrich at yahoo.com (Joshua) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 15:04:32 -0700 Subject: [percy-l] Percy-L Digest, Vol 96, Issue 4 In-Reply-To: <1349906119.96968.YahooMailClassic@web141104.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1349906119.96968.YahooMailClassic@web141104.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1B40BABB-81ED-4D97-A8AF-EFBD801C3B37@yahoo.com> Kiss my ass. You read to much into the "journey" he wants to take the reader on. I'll be smarmy or whatever the fuck I want on the Internet. Percy would throw up knowing about this ultimate alienating device. I'll never even meet you. We're totally alienated from each other....so kiss off you literary bullshitter. Enjoy your E-alienation in this group of jackasses I'd rather not hear from but can't get rid of. Have fun circling the earth! Sent from my iPhone On Oct 10, 2012, at 2:55 PM, "janetcantor37 at yahoo.com" wrote: > > No need to be smarmy. > > Ruins goes to great lengths to describe the varied beliefs and religious choices of the locals. You meet along the way many goofy characters who justify their specific nuttiness. I love Percy's descriptions of each one. All this is in service to a story which wants the reader to confront his own ideas of religion and good and evil. > > Tom's loss of Doris and the story of how he lost her are examples of what has made him adrift. Though it can be read as sad, there is a joke in the new guy that comes along to steal her away. It is the new age "religion" that attracts Doris or distracts her from the loss of their child. So much in Ruins and in other Percy is mocking people's beliefs and how they come by them. It was the way Percy described her leaving that I remember as written with tongue in cheek. Perhaps my impression is wrong. > > Ellen's deliberate lack of religion does not detract from her being just the right one for Tom at the end. Her steadiness is what he needs. And after all the nonsense of the characters and story in Ruins, she represents calm and order. He has found his love in the ruins. > I always love the way Percy ends his books. Be sure when you read Percy to give yourself permission to laugh. He wants to take you on a wild ride and bring you home to predictability. Every one of his novels offers some form of love, of caring for someone else, at the end. > Relax and enjoy the journey. > Janet Cantor > > > They are 2 different women. And questions can be dumb. > (Joshua) > > > hello all, > > > > I'm a English graduate student at Texas A&M, and i have a question that hopefully can be answered (or at least assuaged) with consensus. In _Love in the Ruins_ Tom More repeatedly reminisces on his dead wife Doris. we are told that she was a highly principled yet non-religious woman (i believe he refers to her as an ex-episcopalian who found interest in eastern religion). Ellen Oglethorpe, Dr More's secretary and eventual lover, is the referred to in a similar fashion-- a Presbyterian who has "no use" for God, but who adheres to a strict moral code. How then are we to differentiate these women (if we even are to do so), especially in regards to their effect on More? can More's "choosing" of Ellen be a return to a previous state of life--life before the loss of his child--or is there as subtle difference between Doris and Ellen which i am missing? > > > > > > thank you in advance for any enlightenment > > > > Alex Bell > > -- > > An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > > > Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > > > Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From janetcantor37 at yahoo.com Wed Oct 10 18:05:03 2012 From: janetcantor37 at yahoo.com (janetcantor37 at yahoo.com) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 15:05:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [percy-l] Percy-L Digest, Vol 96, Issue 4 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1349906703.97268.YahooMailClassic@web141104.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Lucky University of Arizona. --- On Wed, 10/10/12, Seth C. Holler wrote: From: Seth C. Holler Subject: Re: [percy-l] Percy-L Digest, Vol 96, Issue 4 To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" Date: Wednesday, October 10, 2012, 5:57 PM What an unhelpful first reply... :( Alex: You might rethink your reading of both women as essentially irreligious. Doris is "ruined" by good clean books celebrating "high places." She isn't irreligious; she loses her religion. -- Seth C. Holler, Ph.D. candidate Graduate Associate in Teaching English Dept. The University of Arizona On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 1:18 PM, Joshua wrote: They are 2 different women. And questions can be dumb. Sent from my iPhone On Oct 10, 2012, at 12:12 PM, Alex Bell wrote: > hello all, > > I'm a English graduate student at Texas A&M, and i have a question that hopefully can be answered (or at least assuaged) with consensus. In _Love in the Ruins_ Tom More repeatedly reminisces on his dead wife Doris. we are told that she was a highly principled yet non-religious woman (i believe he refers to her as an ex-episcopalian who found interest in eastern religion). Ellen Oglethorpe, Dr More's secretary and eventual lover, is the referred to in a similar fashion-- a Presbyterian who has "no use" for God, but who adheres to a strict moral code. How then are we to differentiate these women (if we even are to do so), especially in regards to their effect on More? can More's "choosing" of Ellen be a return to a previous state of life--life before the loss of his child--or is there as subtle difference between Doris and Ellen which i am missing? > > > thank you in advance for any enlightenment > > Alex Bell > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) -- An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) -----Inline Attachment Follows----- -- An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lowry.charles at gmail.com Wed Oct 10 18:31:33 2012 From: lowry.charles at gmail.com (Charles Lowry) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 18:31:33 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] Percy-L Digest, Vol 96, Issue 4 In-Reply-To: <1349906703.97268.YahooMailClassic@web141104.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1349906703.97268.YahooMailClassic@web141104.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: They are 2 different women. And questions can be dumb. _________________________________________________ Whenever I start to wonder if I did the right thing by not pursuing an academic career, I always magically seem to find reassurance. Thanks! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From blaisegratton at gmail.com Wed Oct 10 18:36:03 2012 From: blaisegratton at gmail.com (Blaise Gratton) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 17:36:03 -0500 Subject: [percy-l] Percy-L Digest, Vol 96, Issue 4 In-Reply-To: <1B40BABB-81ED-4D97-A8AF-EFBD801C3B37@yahoo.com> References: <1349906119.96968.YahooMailClassic@web141104.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1B40BABB-81ED-4D97-A8AF-EFBD801C3B37@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <351FF859-7054-4D9B-94B6-9B2FD3306931@gmail.com> Ha, I can't seem to get rid of it, either. On Oct 10, 2012, at 5:04 PM, Joshua wrote: > Kiss my ass. You read to much into the "journey" he wants to take the reader on. I'll be smarmy or whatever the fuck I want on the Internet. Percy would throw up knowing about this ultimate alienating device. I'll never even meet you. We're totally alienated from each other....so kiss off you literary bullshitter. Enjoy your E-alienation in this group of jackasses I'd rather not hear from but can't get rid of. > Have fun circling the earth! > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Oct 10, 2012, at 2:55 PM, "janetcantor37 at yahoo.com" wrote: > >> >> No need to be smarmy. >> >> Ruins goes to great lengths to describe the varied beliefs and religious choices of the locals. You meet along the way many goofy characters who justify their specific nuttiness. I love Percy's descriptions of each one. All this is in service to a story which wants the reader to confront his own ideas of religion and good and evil. >> >> Tom's loss of Doris and the story of how he lost her are examples of what has made him adrift. Though it can be read as sad, there is a joke in the new guy that comes along to steal her away. It is the new age "religion" that attracts Doris or distracts her from the loss of their child. So much in Ruins and in other Percy is mocking people's beliefs and how they come by them. It was the way Percy described her leaving that I remember as written with tongue in cheek. Perhaps my impression is wrong. >> >> Ellen's deliberate lack of religion does not detract from her being just the right one for Tom at the end. Her steadiness is what he needs. And after all the nonsense of the characters and story in Ruins, she represents calm and order. He has found his love in the ruins. >> I always love the way Percy ends his books. Be sure when you read Percy to give yourself permission to laugh. He wants to take you on a wild ride and bring you home to predictability. Every one of his novels offers some form of love, of caring for someone else, at the end. >> Relax and enjoy the journey. >> Janet Cantor >> >> >> They are 2 different women. And questions can be dumb. >> (Joshua) >> >> > hello all, >> > >> > I'm a English graduate student at Texas A&M, and i have a question that hopefully can be answered (or at least assuaged) with consensus. In _Love in the Ruins_ Tom More repeatedly reminisces on his dead wife Doris. we are told that she was a highly principled yet non-religious woman (i believe he refers to her as an ex-episcopalian who found interest in eastern religion). Ellen Oglethorpe, Dr More's secretary and eventual lover, is the referred to in a similar fashion-- a Presbyterian who has "no use" for God, but who adheres to a strict moral code. How then are we to differentiate these women (if we even are to do so), especially in regards to their effect on More? can More's "choosing" of Ellen be a return to a previous state of life--life before the loss of his child--or is there as subtle difference between Doris and Ellen which i am missing? >> > >> > >> > thank you in advance for any enlightenment >> > >> > Alex Bell >> > -- >> > An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ >> > >> > Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy >> > >> > Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) >> -- >> An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ >> >> Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy >> >> Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) >> -- >> An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ >> >> Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy >> >> Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From joshuaemrich at yahoo.com Wed Oct 10 18:46:35 2012 From: joshuaemrich at yahoo.com (Joshua) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 15:46:35 -0700 Subject: [percy-l] Percy-L Digest, Vol 96, Issue 4 In-Reply-To: References: <1716754669.1035221.1349896366994.JavaMail.root@neo.tamu.edu> <7719C8C3-8233-4C8C-905F-09646780EBF9@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Yes, Greg the academic, really. Have fun on the net! You'd make Percy sick, "really". I wish I was as well adjusted as you all. Sent from my iPhone On Oct 10, 2012, at 2:36 PM, Greg Camacho wrote: > Really, Joshua? > > On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 3:18 PM, Joshua wrote: > They are 2 different women. And questions can be dumb. > > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Oct 10, 2012, at 12:12 PM, Alex Bell wrote: > > > hello all, > > > > I'm a English graduate student at Texas A&M, and i have a question that hopefully can be answered (or at least assuaged) with consensus. In _Love in the Ruins_ Tom More repeatedly reminisces on his dead wife Doris. we are told that she was a highly principled yet non-religious woman (i believe he refers to her as an ex-episcopalian who found interest in eastern religion). Ellen Oglethorpe, Dr More's secretary and eventual lover, is the referred to in a similar fashion-- a Presbyterian who has "no use" for God, but who adheres to a strict moral code. How then are we to differentiate these women (if we even are to do so), especially in regards to their effect on More? can More's "choosing" of Ellen be a return to a previous state of life--life before the loss of his child--or is there as subtle difference between Doris and Ellen which i am missing? > > > > > > thank you in advance for any enlightenment > > > > Alex Bell > > -- > > An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > > > Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > > > Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) > > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gregcamacho8 at gmail.com Thu Oct 11 13:16:57 2012 From: gregcamacho8 at gmail.com (Greg Camacho) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 12:16:57 -0500 Subject: [percy-l] Percy-L Digest, Vol 96, Issue 4 In-Reply-To: <351FF859-7054-4D9B-94B6-9B2FD3306931@gmail.com> References: <1349906119.96968.YahooMailClassic@web141104.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1B40BABB-81ED-4D97-A8AF-EFBD801C3B37@yahoo.com> <351FF859-7054-4D9B-94B6-9B2FD3306931@gmail.com> Message-ID: Josh, using salty language isn't a sign of being maladjusted. But lashing out at people for slight offenses is easily. Funny that you think email is alienating... The Search (or journey) is a main theme in all of Percy's fiction, readily acknowledged by most people who take his work seriously. In The Moviegoer, The Last Gentleman and Love In the Ruins, the main characters start at an unresolved state, groping for something that integrates their whole person. Some go on *literal journeys* to get closer to what they sense is an answer. Ultimately, they end up in families, which, in-line with Percy's Catholic faith, is presented as the context for stable and integrative engagement with the Meaning of Life. Some people have gone through some hellish experience, and when you find out you think, Oh *that's* why they act that way. And some people are just immature, unable or unwilling to escape their mutilating habits and projections of inner-ruptures. For certain, *I'm* often immature, but I don't know *you* and I wouldn't assume the power to read your soul in any which way. But if you'd like to really attune your sensibilities to Percy's habit of being, you might try to understand how and why he would often focus on the grotesquely obscene (e.g., his reflection on pornography at airports) and yet be such a sincere gentleman, especially in letters. For that, let me recommend *Matthew Lickona's "Surfing With Mel"*, and perhaps anything/everything written by Heather King. Best regards, Greg On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 5:36 PM, Blaise Gratton wrote: > Ha, I can't seem to get rid of it, either. > > > On Oct 10, 2012, at 5:04 PM, Joshua wrote: > > Kiss my ass. You read to much into the "journey" he wants to take the > reader on. I'll be smarmy or whatever the fuck I want on the Internet. > Percy would throw up knowing about this ultimate alienating device. I'll > never even meet you. We're totally alienated from each other....so kiss off > you literary bullshitter. Enjoy your E-alienation in this group of > jackasses I'd rather not hear from but can't get rid of. > Have fun circling the earth! > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Oct 10, 2012, at 2:55 PM, "janetcantor37 at yahoo.com" < > janetcantor37 at yahoo.com> wrote: > > No need to be smarmy. > > Ruins goes to great lengths to describe the varied beliefs and religious > choices of the locals. You meet along the way many goofy characters who > justify their specific nuttiness. I love Percy's descriptions of each one. > All this is in service to a story which wants the reader to confront his > own ideas of religion and good and evil. > > Tom's loss of Doris and the story of how he lost her are examples of what > has made him adrift. Though it can be read as sad, there is a joke in the > new guy that comes along to steal her away. It is the new age "religion" > that attracts Doris or distracts her from the loss of their child. So much > in Ruins and in other Percy is mocking people's beliefs and how they come > by them. It was the way Percy described her leaving that I remember as > written with tongue in cheek. Perhaps my impression is wrong. > > Ellen's deliberate lack of religion does not detract from her being just > the right one for Tom at the end. Her steadiness is what he needs. And > after all the nonsense of the characters and story in Ruins, she represents > calm and order. He has found his love in the ruins. > I always love the way Percy ends his books. Be sure when you read Percy to > give yourself permission to laugh. He wants to take you on a wild ride and > bring you home to predictability. Every one of his novels offers some form > of love, of caring for someone else, at the end. > Relax and enjoy the journey. > Janet Cantor > > > They are 2 different women. And questions can be dumb. > (Joshua) > > > hello all, > > > > I'm a English graduate student at Texas A&M, and i have a question that > hopefully can be answered (or at least assuaged) with consensus. In _Love > in the Ruins_ Tom More repeatedly reminisces on his dead wife Doris. we are > told that she was a highly principled yet non-religious woman (i believe he > refers to her as an ex-episcopalian who found interest in eastern > religion). Ellen Oglethorpe, Dr More's secretary and eventual lover, is the > referred to in a similar fashion-- a Presbyterian who has "no use" for God, > but who adheres to a strict moral code. How then are we to differentiate > these women (if we even are to do so), especially in regards to their > effect on More? can More's "choosing" of Ellen be a return to a previous > state of life--life before the loss of his child--or is there as subtle > difference between Doris and Ellen which i am missing? > > > > > > thank you in advance for any enlightenment > > > > Alex Bell > > -- > > An archive of all list discussion is available at > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > > > Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > > > Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ > sign when addressing email) > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ > sign when addressing email) > > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ > sign when addressing email) > > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ > sign when addressing email) > > > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ > sign when addressing email) > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alexbell25 at tamu.edu Thu Oct 11 13:08:35 2012 From: alexbell25 at tamu.edu (Alex Bell) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 12:08:35 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [percy-l] Percy-L Digest, Vol 97, Issue 2 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1634392770.1456052.1349975315850.JavaMail.root@neo.tamu.edu> Seth: thanks, i seem to have gotten so bogged down in their similarities that i failed to realize that distinction. How then do you interpret Ellen's religious change in Thanatos Syndrome? Janet: While i certainly agree with you that love, in its many facets, plays a crucial role in much of Percy's work, Ellen's change in Thanatos Syndrome indicates a looming uncertainty that i think rests within Percy's novels. While this uncertainty is abated by the end of Love in the Ruins, it still persistently lingers. What that uncertainty encompasses is a long discussion in itself. You're right to point at the humor of the novel, but i would note that Doris' abandonment of Tom, coupled with her subsequent death (all piled upon the death of Samantha) is certainly a grave matter. After all, it is exactly those abandonments that create the major crisis for Tom. Humor can be found in this tragedy, but it is tragic nonetheless. Joshua: I'm sorry if my question alienated or upset you. Percy wrote in The Moviegoer that the search allows humans to escape despair. That is all i--or anyone on this list--is trying to do. Alex Bell ----- Original Message ----- From: percy-l-request at lists.ibiblio.org To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2012 5:37:22 PM Subject: Percy-L Digest, Vol 97, Issue 2 Send Percy-L mailing list submissions to percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/percy-l or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to percy-l-request at lists.ibiblio.org You can reach the person managing the list at percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Percy-L digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Percy-L Digest, Vol 96, Issue 4 (Joshua) 2. Percy-L Digest, Vol 96, Issue 4 (janetcantor37 at yahoo.com) 3. Re: Percy-L Digest, Vol 96, Issue 4 (Charles Lowry) 4. Re: Percy-L Digest, Vol 96, Issue 4 (Blaise Gratton) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 15:04:32 -0700 From: Joshua Subject: Re: [percy-l] Percy-L Digest, Vol 96, Issue 4 To: "janetcantor37 at yahoo.com" , "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" Cc: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" Message-ID: <1B40BABB-81ED-4D97-A8AF-EFBD801C3B37 at yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Kiss my ass. You read to much into the "journey" he wants to take the reader on. I'll be smarmy or whatever the fuck I want on the Internet. Percy would throw up knowing about this ultimate alienating device. I'll never even meet you. We're totally alienated from each other....so kiss off you literary bullshitter. Enjoy your E-alienation in this group of jackasses I'd rather not hear from but can't get rid of. Have fun circling the earth! Sent from my iPhone On Oct 10, 2012, at 2:55 PM, "janetcantor37 at yahoo.com" wrote: > > No need to be smarmy. > > Ruins goes to great lengths to describe the varied beliefs and religious choices of the locals. You meet along the way many goofy characters who justify their specific nuttiness. I love Percy's descriptions of each one. All this is in service to a story which wants the reader to confront his own ideas of religion and good and evil. > > Tom's loss of Doris and the story of how he lost her are examples of what has made him adrift. Though it can be read as sad, there is a joke in the new guy that comes along to steal her away. It is the new age "religion" that attracts Doris or distracts her from the loss of their child. So much in Ruins and in other Percy is mocking people's beliefs and how they come by them. It was the way Percy described her leaving that I remember as written with tongue in cheek. Perhaps my impression is wrong. > > Ellen's deliberate lack of religion does not detract from her being just the right one for Tom at the end. Her steadiness is what he needs. And after all the nonsense of the characters and story in Ruins, she represents calm and order. He has found his love in the ruins. > I always love the way Percy ends his books. Be sure when you read Percy to give yourself permission to laugh. He wants to take you on a wild ride and bring you home to predictability. Every one of his novels offers some form of love, of caring for someone else, at the end. > Relax and enjoy the journey. > Janet Cantor > > > They are 2 different women. And questions can be dumb. > (Joshua) > > > hello all, > > > > I'm a English graduate student at Texas A&M, and i have a question that hopefully can be answered (or at least assuaged) with consensus. In _Love in the Ruins_ Tom More repeatedly reminisces on his dead wife Doris. we are told that she was a highly principled yet non-religious woman (i believe he refers to her as an ex-episcopalian who found interest in eastern religion). Ellen Oglethorpe, Dr More's secretary and eventual lover, is the referred to in a similar fashion-- a Presbyterian who has "no use" for God, but who adheres to a strict moral code. How then are we to differentiate these women (if we even are to do so), especially in regards to their effect on More? can More's "choosing" of Ellen be a return to a previous state of life--life before the loss of his child--or is there as subtle difference between Doris and Ellen which i am missing? > > > > > > thank you in advance for any enlightenment > > > > Alex Bell > > -- > > An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > > > Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > > > Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/attachments/20121010/1cd75e39/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 15:05:03 -0700 (PDT) From: "janetcantor37 at yahoo.com" Subject: [percy-l] Percy-L Digest, Vol 96, Issue 4 To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" Message-ID: <1349906703.97268.YahooMailClassic at web141104.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Lucky University of Arizona. --- On Wed, 10/10/12, Seth C. Holler wrote: From: Seth C. Holler Subject: Re: [percy-l] Percy-L Digest, Vol 96, Issue 4 To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" Date: Wednesday, October 10, 2012, 5:57 PM What an unhelpful first reply... :( Alex: You might rethink your reading of both women as essentially irreligious. Doris is "ruined" by good clean books celebrating "high places." She isn't irreligious; she loses her religion. -- Seth C. Holler, Ph.D. candidate Graduate Associate in Teaching English Dept. The University of Arizona On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 1:18 PM, Joshua wrote: They are 2 different women. And questions can be dumb. Sent from my iPhone On Oct 10, 2012, at 12:12 PM, Alex Bell wrote: > hello all, > > I'm a English graduate student at Texas A&M, and i have a question that hopefully can be answered (or at least assuaged) with consensus. In _Love in the Ruins_ Tom More repeatedly reminisces on his dead wife Doris. we are told that she was a highly principled yet non-religious woman (i believe he refers to her as an ex-episcopalian who found interest in eastern religion). Ellen Oglethorpe, Dr More's secretary and eventual lover, is the referred to in a similar fashion-- a Presbyterian who has "no use" for God, but who adheres to a strict moral code. How then are we to differentiate these women (if we even are to do so), especially in regards to their effect on More? can More's "choosing" of Ellen be a return to a previous state of life--life before the loss of his child--or is there as subtle difference between Doris and Ellen which i am missing? > > > thank you in advance for any enlightenment > > Alex Bell > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) -- An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) -----Inline Attachment Follows----- -- An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/attachments/20121010/a325ff93/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 18:31:33 -0400 From: Charles Lowry Subject: Re: [percy-l] Percy-L Digest, Vol 96, Issue 4 To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" They are 2 different women. And questions can be dumb. _________________________________________________ Whenever I start to wonder if I did the right thing by not pursuing an academic career, I always magically seem to find reassurance. Thanks! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/attachments/20121010/fedc2ef3/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 17:36:03 -0500 From: Blaise Gratton Subject: Re: [percy-l] Percy-L Digest, Vol 96, Issue 4 To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" Cc: "Percy-L: Literaryand Philosophical Discussion" Message-ID: <351FF859-7054-4D9B-94B6-9B2FD3306931 at gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Ha, I can't seem to get rid of it, either. On Oct 10, 2012, at 5:04 PM, Joshua wrote: > Kiss my ass. You read to much into the "journey" he wants to take the reader on. I'll be smarmy or whatever the fuck I want on the Internet. Percy would throw up knowing about this ultimate alienating device. I'll never even meet you. We're totally alienated from each other....so kiss off you literary bullshitter. Enjoy your E-alienation in this group of jackasses I'd rather not hear from but can't get rid of. > Have fun circling the earth! > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Oct 10, 2012, at 2:55 PM, "janetcantor37 at yahoo.com" wrote: > >> >> No need to be smarmy. >> >> Ruins goes to great lengths to describe the varied beliefs and religious choices of the locals. You meet along the way many goofy characters who justify their specific nuttiness. I love Percy's descriptions of each one. All this is in service to a story which wants the reader to confront his own ideas of religion and good and evil. >> >> Tom's loss of Doris and the story of how he lost her are examples of what has made him adrift. Though it can be read as sad, there is a joke in the new guy that comes along to steal her away. It is the new age "religion" that attracts Doris or distracts her from the loss of their child. So much in Ruins and in other Percy is mocking people's beliefs and how they come by them. It was the way Percy described her leaving that I remember as written with tongue in cheek. Perhaps my impression is wrong. >> >> Ellen's deliberate lack of religion does not detract from her being just the right one for Tom at the end. Her steadiness is what he needs. And after all the nonsense of the characters and story in Ruins, she represents calm and order. He has found his love in the ruins. >> I always love the way Percy ends his books. Be sure when you read Percy to give yourself permission to laugh. He wants to take you on a wild ride and bring you home to predictability. Every one of his novels offers some form of love, of caring for someone else, at the end. >> Relax and enjoy the journey. >> Janet Cantor >> >> >> They are 2 different women. And questions can be dumb. >> (Joshua) >> >> > hello all, >> > >> > I'm a English graduate student at Texas A&M, and i have a question that hopefully can be answered (or at least assuaged) with consensus. In _Love in the Ruins_ Tom More repeatedly reminisces on his dead wife Doris. we are told that she was a highly principled yet non-religious woman (i believe he refers to her as an ex-episcopalian who found interest in eastern religion). Ellen Oglethorpe, Dr More's secretary and eventual lover, is the referred to in a similar fashion-- a Presbyterian who has "no use" for God, but who adheres to a strict moral code. How then are we to differentiate these women (if we even are to do so), especially in regards to their effect on More? can More's "choosing" of Ellen be a return to a previous state of life--life before the loss of his child--or is there as subtle difference between Doris and Ellen which i am missing? >> > >> > >> > thank you in advance for any enlightenment >> > >> > Alex Bell >> > -- >> > An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ >> > >> > Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy >> > >> > Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) >> -- >> An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ >> >> Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy >> >> Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) >> -- >> An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ >> >> Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy >> >> Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/attachments/20121010/06f8e4ee/attachment.html ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Percy-L mailing list Percy-L at lists.ibiblio.org http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/percy-l End of Percy-L Digest, Vol 97, Issue 2 ************************************** From scholler at gmail.com Thu Oct 11 13:37:48 2012 From: scholler at gmail.com (Seth C. Holler) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 10:37:48 -0700 Subject: [percy-l] Percy-L Digest, Vol 97, Issue 2 In-Reply-To: <1634392770.1456052.1349975315850.JavaMail.root@neo.tamu.edu> References: <1634392770.1456052.1349975315850.JavaMail.root@neo.tamu.edu> Message-ID: Alex: Try consulting the two collections of interviews (*Conversations* and *More Conversations*) to see what Percy said about Ellen's role in both novels. He's surprisingly dismissive -- but that may be a function of his response to feminist criticism of his novels, and his pride (justifiable in my opinion) in the character of Allie in *The Second Coming*. In the interviews you'll also see that he didn't exactly plan the sequels. I haven't read any of the biographies yet, but I'm sure they'd help you think about Percy and doubt. One more point: *Thanatos* is such a depressing book. Dr More's religion certainly changes, too, no less than Ellen's. -- Seth C. Holler, Ph.D. candidate Graduate Associate in Teaching English Dept. The University of Arizona On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 10:08 AM, Alex Bell wrote: > Seth: thanks, i seem to have gotten so bogged down in their similarities > that i failed to realize that distinction. How then do you interpret > Ellen's religious change in Thanatos Syndrome? > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jopomojo at gmail.com Thu Oct 11 13:46:08 2012 From: jopomojo at gmail.com (Jonathan Potter) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 10:46:08 -0700 Subject: [percy-l] Percy-L Digest, Vol 97, Issue 2 In-Reply-To: <1634392770.1456052.1349975315850.JavaMail.root@neo.tamu.edu> References: <1634392770.1456052.1349975315850.JavaMail.root@neo.tamu.edu> Message-ID: Thinking about Doris and Ellen in terms of Kierkegaard's spheres might be helpful. Doris's abandonment of Tom has the character of an escape into aesthetic damnation, whereas Ellen seems to occupy the sphere of the ethical -- which provides an element of stability that Tom is attracted to even though he, as he occasionally mentions, "has bigger fish to fry" i.e. religious concerns that go beyond Ellen's ethically oriented Presbyterianism. Yours in e-alientated confraternity, Jonathan Potter Spokane WA On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 10:08 AM, Alex Bell wrote: > Seth: thanks, i seem to have gotten so bogged down in their similarities > that i failed to realize that distinction. How then do you interpret > Ellen's religious change in Thanatos Syndrome? > > Janet: While i certainly agree with you that love, in its many facets, > plays a crucial role in much of Percy's work, Ellen's change in Thanatos > Syndrome indicates a looming uncertainty that i think rests within Percy's > novels. While this uncertainty is abated by the end of Love in the Ruins, > it still persistently lingers. What that uncertainty encompasses is a long > discussion in itself. > > You're right to point at the humor of the novel, but i would note that > Doris' abandonment of Tom, coupled with her subsequent death (all piled > upon the death of Samantha) is certainly a grave matter. After all, it is > exactly those abandonments that create the major crisis for Tom. Humor can > be found in this tragedy, but it is tragic nonetheless. > > Joshua: I'm sorry if my question alienated or upset you. Percy wrote in > The Moviegoer that the search allows humans to escape despair. That is all > i--or anyone on this list--is trying to do. > > Alex Bell > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: percy-l-request at lists.ibiblio.org > To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org > Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2012 5:37:22 PM > Subject: Percy-L Digest, Vol 97, Issue 2 > > Send Percy-L mailing list submissions to > percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/percy-l > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > percy-l-request at lists.ibiblio.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Percy-L digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Percy-L Digest, Vol 96, Issue 4 (Joshua) > 2. Percy-L Digest, Vol 96, Issue 4 (janetcantor37 at yahoo.com) > 3. Re: Percy-L Digest, Vol 96, Issue 4 (Charles Lowry) > 4. Re: Percy-L Digest, Vol 96, Issue 4 (Blaise Gratton) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 15:04:32 -0700 > From: Joshua > Subject: Re: [percy-l] Percy-L Digest, Vol 96, Issue 4 > To: "janetcantor37 at yahoo.com" , "Percy-L: > Literary and Philosophical Discussion" > > Cc: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" > > Message-ID: <1B40BABB-81ED-4D97-A8AF-EFBD801C3B37 at yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Kiss my ass. You read to much into the "journey" he wants to take the > reader on. I'll be smarmy or whatever the fuck I want on the Internet. > Percy would throw up knowing about this ultimate alienating device. I'll > never even meet you. We're totally alienated from each other....so kiss off > you literary bullshitter. Enjoy your E-alienation in this group of > jackasses I'd rather not hear from but can't get rid of. > Have fun circling the earth! > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Oct 10, 2012, at 2:55 PM, "janetcantor37 at yahoo.com" < > janetcantor37 at yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > No need to be smarmy. > > > > Ruins goes to great lengths to describe the varied beliefs and religious > choices of the locals. You meet along the way many goofy characters who > justify their specific nuttiness. I love Percy's descriptions of each one. > All this is in service to a story which wants the reader to confront his > own ideas of religion and good and evil. > > > > Tom's loss of Doris and the story of how he lost her are examples of > what has made him adrift. Though it can be read as sad, there is a joke in > the new guy that comes along to steal her away. It is the new age > "religion" that attracts Doris or distracts her from the loss of their > child. So much in Ruins and in other Percy is mocking people's beliefs and > how they come by them. It was the way Percy described her leaving that I > remember as written with tongue in cheek. Perhaps my impression is wrong. > > > > Ellen's deliberate lack of religion does not detract from her being just > the right one for Tom at the end. Her steadiness is what he needs. And > after all the nonsense of the characters and story in Ruins, she represents > calm and order. He has found his love in the ruins. > > I always love the way Percy ends his books. Be sure when you read Percy > to give yourself permission to laugh. He wants to take you on a wild ride > and bring you home to predictability. Every one of his novels offers some > form of love, of caring for someone else, at the end. > > Relax and enjoy the journey. > > Janet Cantor > > > > > > They are 2 different women. And questions can be dumb. > > (Joshua) > > > > > hello all, > > > > > > I'm a English graduate student at Texas A&M, and i have a question > that hopefully can be answered (or at least assuaged) with consensus. In > _Love in the Ruins_ Tom More repeatedly reminisces on his dead wife Doris. > we are told that she was a highly principled yet non-religious woman (i > believe he refers to her as an ex-episcopalian who found interest in > eastern religion). Ellen Oglethorpe, Dr More's secretary and eventual > lover, is the referred to in a similar fashion-- a Presbyterian who has "no > use" for God, but who adheres to a strict moral code. How then are we to > differentiate these women (if we even are to do so), especially in regards > to their effect on More? can More's "choosing" of Ellen be a return to a > previous state of life--life before the loss of his child--or is there as > subtle difference between Doris and Ellen which i am missing? > > > > > > > > > thank you in advance for any enlightenment > > > > > > Alex Bell > > > -- > > > An archive of all list discussion is available at > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > > > > > Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > > > > > Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add > @ sign when addressing email) > > -- > > An archive of all list discussion is available at > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > > > Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > > > Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ > sign when addressing email) > > -- > > An archive of all list discussion is available at > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > > > Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > > > Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ > sign when addressing email) > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/attachments/20121010/1cd75e39/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 15:05:03 -0700 (PDT) > From: "janetcantor37 at yahoo.com" > Subject: [percy-l] Percy-L Digest, Vol 96, Issue 4 > To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" > > Message-ID: > <1349906703.97268.YahooMailClassic at web141104.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Lucky University of Arizona. > > --- On Wed, 10/10/12, Seth C. Holler wrote: > > From: Seth C. Holler > Subject: Re: [percy-l] Percy-L Digest, Vol 96, Issue 4 > To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" < > percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org> > Date: Wednesday, October 10, 2012, 5:57 PM > > What an unhelpful first reply... :( > Alex: You might rethink your reading of both women as essentially > irreligious. Doris is "ruined" by good clean books celebrating "high > places." She isn't irreligious; she loses her religion. > > > > -- > Seth C. Holler, Ph.D. candidate > Graduate Associate in Teaching > English Dept. > The University of Arizona > > > > On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 1:18 PM, Joshua wrote: > > > They are 2 different women. And questions can be dumb. > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On Oct 10, 2012, at 12:12 PM, Alex Bell wrote: > > > > > hello all, > > > > > > I'm a English graduate student at Texas A&M, and i have a question that > hopefully can be answered (or at least assuaged) with consensus. In _Love > in the Ruins_ Tom More repeatedly reminisces on his dead wife Doris. we are > told that she was a highly principled yet non-religious woman (i believe he > refers to her as an ex-episcopalian who found interest in eastern > religion). Ellen Oglethorpe, Dr More's secretary and eventual lover, is the > referred to in a similar fashion-- a Presbyterian who has "no use" for God, > but who adheres to a strict moral code. How then are we to differentiate > these women (if we even are to do so), especially in regards to their > effect on More? can More's "choosing" of Ellen be a return to a previous > state of life--life before the loss of his child--or is there as subtle > difference between Doris and Ellen which i am missing? > > > > > > > > > > > thank you in advance for any enlightenment > > > > > > Alex Bell > > > -- > > > An archive of all list discussion is available at > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > > > > > Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > > > > > Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ > sign when addressing email) > > -- > > An archive of all list discussion is available at > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > > > Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > > > Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ > sign when addressing email) > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ > sign when addressing email) > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/attachments/20121010/a325ff93/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 18:31:33 -0400 > From: Charles Lowry > Subject: Re: [percy-l] Percy-L Digest, Vol 96, Issue 4 > To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" > > Message-ID: > < > CADDsyCPHhK5LzVDu2MDKk4Vrmn235kDQoruNbzE61LFui7fvBA at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > They are 2 different women. And questions can be dumb. > > _________________________________________________ > > Whenever I start to wonder if I did the right thing by not pursuing an > academic career, I always magically seem to find reassurance. Thanks! > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/attachments/20121010/fedc2ef3/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 17:36:03 -0500 > From: Blaise Gratton > Subject: Re: [percy-l] Percy-L Digest, Vol 96, Issue 4 > To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" > > Cc: "Percy-L: Literaryand Philosophical Discussion" > > Message-ID: <351FF859-7054-4D9B-94B6-9B2FD3306931 at gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Ha, I can't seem to get rid of it, either. > > On Oct 10, 2012, at 5:04 PM, Joshua wrote: > > > Kiss my ass. You read to much into the "journey" he wants to take the > reader on. I'll be smarmy or whatever the fuck I want on the Internet. > Percy would throw up knowing about this ultimate alienating device. I'll > never even meet you. We're totally alienated from each other....so kiss off > you literary bullshitter. Enjoy your E-alienation in this group of > jackasses I'd rather not hear from but can't get rid of. > > Have fun circling the earth! > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On Oct 10, 2012, at 2:55 PM, "janetcantor37 at yahoo.com" < > janetcantor37 at yahoo.com> wrote: > > > >> > >> No need to be smarmy. > >> > >> Ruins goes to great lengths to describe the varied beliefs and > religious choices of the locals. You meet along the way many goofy > characters who justify their specific nuttiness. I love Percy's > descriptions of each one. All this is in service to a story which wants the > reader to confront his own ideas of religion and good and evil. > >> > >> Tom's loss of Doris and the story of how he lost her are examples of > what has made him adrift. Though it can be read as sad, there is a joke in > the new guy that comes along to steal her away. It is the new age > "religion" that attracts Doris or distracts her from the loss of their > child. So much in Ruins and in other Percy is mocking people's beliefs and > how they come by them. It was the way Percy described her leaving that I > remember as written with tongue in cheek. Perhaps my impression is wrong. > >> > >> Ellen's deliberate lack of religion does not detract from her being > just the right one for Tom at the end. Her steadiness is what he needs. And > after all the nonsense of the characters and story in Ruins, she represents > calm and order. He has found his love in the ruins. > >> I always love the way Percy ends his books. Be sure when you read Percy > to give yourself permission to laugh. He wants to take you on a wild ride > and bring you home to predictability. Every one of his novels offers some > form of love, of caring for someone else, at the end. > >> Relax and enjoy the journey. > >> Janet Cantor > >> > >> > >> They are 2 different women. And questions can be dumb. > >> (Joshua) > >> > >> > hello all, > >> > > >> > I'm a English graduate student at Texas A&M, and i have a question > that hopefully can be answered (or at least assuaged) with consensus. In > _Love in the Ruins_ Tom More repeatedly reminisces on his dead wife Doris. > we are told that she was a highly principled yet non-religious woman (i > believe he refers to her as an ex-episcopalian who found interest in > eastern religion). Ellen Oglethorpe, Dr More's secretary and eventual > lover, is the referred to in a similar fashion-- a Presbyterian who has "no > use" for God, but who adheres to a strict moral code. How then are we to > differentiate these women (if we even are to do so), especially in regards > to their effect on More? can More's "choosing" of Ellen be a return to a > previous state of life--life before the loss of his child--or is there as > subtle difference between Doris and Ellen which i am missing? > >> > > >> > > >> > thank you in advance for any enlightenment > >> > > >> > Alex Bell > >> > -- > >> > An archive of all list discussion is available at > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > >> > > >> > Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > >> > > >> > Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add > @ sign when addressing email) > >> -- > >> An archive of all list discussion is available at > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > >> > >> Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > >> > >> Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ > sign when addressing email) > >> -- > >> An archive of all list discussion is available at > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > >> > >> Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > >> > >> Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ > sign when addressing email) > > -- > > An archive of all list discussion is available at > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > > > Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > > > Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ > sign when addressing email) > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/attachments/20121010/06f8e4ee/attachment.html > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Percy-L mailing list > Percy-L at lists.ibiblio.org > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/percy-l > > > End of Percy-L Digest, Vol 97, Issue 2 > ************************************** > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ > sign when addressing email) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From janetcantor37 at yahoo.com Thu Oct 11 14:11:35 2012 From: janetcantor37 at yahoo.com (janetcantor37 at yahoo.com) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 11:11:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [percy-l] What Spock didn't understand Message-ID: <1349979095.60773.YahooMailClassic@web141104.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> There is a lot in this post on babalublog.com. But if you look carefully, you will find references to Flannery O'Connor's famous quote about tenderness that Percy also used in The Thanatos Syndrome and a lot of this post applies to some recent comments on the Lists. To see the original post and pictures and videos, and comments, Click on the bottom line for the URL to the article. Janet Cantor What Spock didn't understand Posted By Luis Gonzalez On October 11, 2012 (10:36 AM) In No tiene nombreOne of the most memorable movies scenes of all time (for Star Trek geeks lime myself that is) was Spock's "dying" scene in "The Wrath of Khan": That idea is the basis for most liberal logic, but liberal logic, must remove human values from the equation in order to work, as witnessed in Detroit, when a first responder acted on basic human instinct, and engaged in a primary human reponse. Fox 2 News Headlines You are a paramedic, you arrive at the scene of a house fire and see a cold, nearly nude, crippled old man shivering outside wearing nothing but his underwear, and you give him a blanket. A blanket donated to the department for use under such circumstances...blankets given freely to be used to comfort people just like this old, crippled man. When reached for a comment, Jerald James, Chief of Detroit's EMS had this to say on the subject: "We can't have an employee who feels that they have a right to give away state property, be it donated, be it a blanket, be it a tire off a vehicle, without getting prior approval from somebody or notifying the proper authority. This is what he did." Mr. James fails to see the obvious difference between a tire and a donated blanket...it's all State property to him. So, Jeff Gaglio, the paramedic in question, is being brought up on EMS departmental charges for giving away a blanket to a citizen without obtaining proper permission, and two quotes come to mind: "[Euthanasia] is what any State medical service has sooner or later got to face. If you are going to be kept alive in institutions run by and paid for by the State, you must accept the State?s right to economize when necessary ?" The Ministry of Fear by Graham Green (New York: Penguin Books [1943] 2005, p. 165). If this is the State's reaction to the misappropriation of a blanket, what should we expect from the State when it sees a hospital bed as being something that should be reserved to satisfy Karl Marx's "common good"? How can anyone not see that this is the real cliff in our path ahead? Or perhaps, Flannery O'Conor's great quote is more appropriate here: "In the absence of faith, we govern by tenderness. And tenderness leads to the gas chamber." With "tenderness" of course, being a word that today could perhaps be substituted by "compassion", or even "fairness", within the liberal interpretation of either word, and include unspoken, politically incorrect adjectives such as "forced" or "artificial" (which precede nearly any liberal concept known to man), and used in a way that embraces Spock's "the need of the many" quote. But Spock was only half human, and where that human half was ready to willingly engage in the ultimate act of selflessness for his friend, his Vulcan half, controlled by "logic" and untarnished by emotion, failed to understand that in human beings, faith, not logic, defines compassion and shapes tenderness. Logic dictates that a gifted blanket must be used to satisfy the greater needs of the many, even if that means that the few must suffer while what constitutes that "greater needs" is being calculated. Compassion and tenderness, driven by faith and humanity, will always have us give the blanket to the nearly naked, crippled, shivering old man sitting outside his burning home. Even when we know that our action may have severe consequences. We are after all, human, and when the State attempts to substitute artificial "tenderness" and "fairness" for humanity, well, "that way lie the tumbrels and the guillotine." Article taken from Babal? Blog - http://babalublog.com URL to article: http://babalublog.com/2012/10/what-spock-didnt-understand/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From joshuaemrich at yahoo.com Thu Oct 11 15:32:55 2012 From: joshuaemrich at yahoo.com (Joshua) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 12:32:55 -0700 Subject: [percy-l] Percy-L Digest, Vol 96, Issue 4 In-Reply-To: References: <1349906119.96968.YahooMailClassic@web141104.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1B40BABB-81ED-4D97-A8AF-EFBD801C3B37@yahoo.com> <351FF859-7054-4D9B-94B6-9B2FD3306931@gmail.com> Message-ID: Emailing is alienating. Emails happe Sent from my iPhone On Oct 11, 2012, at 10:16 AM, Greg Camacho wrote: > Josh, using salty language isn't a sign of being maladjusted. But lashing out at people for slight offenses is easily. Funny that you think email is alienating... > > The Search (or journey) is a main theme in all of Percy's fiction, readily acknowledged by most people who take his work seriously. In The Moviegoer, The Last Gentleman and Love In the Ruins, the main characters start at an unresolved state, groping for something that integrates their whole person. Some go on literal journeys to get closer to what they sense is an answer. Ultimately, they end up in families, which, in-line with Percy's Catholic faith, is presented as the context for stable and integrative engagement with the Meaning of Life. > > Some people have gone through some hellish experience, and when you find out you think, Oh that's why they act that way. And some people are just immature, unable or unwilling to escape their mutilating habits and projections of inner-ruptures. For certain, I'm often immature, but I don't know you and I wouldn't assume the power to read your soul in any which way. > > But if you'd like to really attune your sensibilities to Percy's habit of being, you might try to understand how and why he would often focus on the grotesquely obscene (e.g., his reflection on pornography at airports) and yet be such a sincere gentleman, especially in letters. For that, let me recommend Matthew Lickona's "Surfing With Mel", and perhaps anything/everything written by Heather King. > > > Best regards, > > Greg > > On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 5:36 PM, Blaise Gratton wrote: > Ha, I can't seem to get rid of it, either. > > > On Oct 10, 2012, at 5:04 PM, Joshua wrote: > >> Kiss my ass. You read to much into the "journey" he wants to take the reader on. I'll be smarmy or whatever the fuck I want on the Internet. Percy would throw up knowing about this ultimate alienating device. I'll never even meet you. We're totally alienated from each other....so kiss off you literary bullshitter. Enjoy your E-alienation in this group of jackasses I'd rather not hear from but can't get rid of. >> Have fun circling the earth! >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Oct 10, 2012, at 2:55 PM, "janetcantor37 at yahoo.com" wrote: >> >>> >>> No need to be smarmy. >>> >>> Ruins goes to great lengths to describe the varied beliefs and religious choices of the locals. You meet along the way many goofy characters who justify their specific nuttiness. I love Percy's descriptions of each one. All this is in service to a story which wants the reader to confront his own ideas of religion and good and evil. >>> >>> Tom's loss of Doris and the story of how he lost her are examples of what has made him adrift. Though it can be read as sad, there is a joke in the new guy that comes along to steal her away. It is the new age "religion" that attracts Doris or distracts her from the loss of their child. So much in Ruins and in other Percy is mocking people's beliefs and how they come by them. It was the way Percy described her leaving that I remember as written with tongue in cheek. Perhaps my impression is wrong. >>> >>> Ellen's deliberate lack of religion does not detract from her being just the right one for Tom at the end. Her steadiness is what he needs. And after all the nonsense of the characters and story in Ruins, she represents calm and order. He has found his love in the ruins. >>> I always love the way Percy ends his books. Be sure when you read Percy to give yourself permission to laugh. He wants to take you on a wild ride and bring you home to predictability. Every one of his novels offers some form of love, of caring for someone else, at the end. >>> Relax and enjoy the journey. >>> Janet Cantor >>> >>> >>> They are 2 different women. And questions can be dumb. >>> (Joshua) >>> >>> > hello all, >>> > >>> > I'm a English graduate student at Texas A&M, and i have a question that hopefully can be answered (or at least assuaged) with consensus. In _Love in the Ruins_ Tom More repeatedly reminisces on his dead wife Doris. we are told that she was a highly principled yet non-religious woman (i believe he refers to her as an ex-episcopalian who found interest in eastern religion). Ellen Oglethorpe, Dr More's secretary and eventual lover, is the referred to in a similar fashion-- a Presbyterian who has "no use" for God, but who adheres to a strict moral code. How then are we to differentiate these women (if we even are to do so), especially in regards to their effect on More? can More's "choosing" of Ellen be a return to a previous state of life--life before the loss of his child--or is there as subtle difference between Doris and Ellen which i am missing? >>> > >>> > >>> > thank you in advance for any enlightenment >>> > >>> > Alex Bell >>> > -- >>> > An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ >>> > >>> > Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy >>> > >>> > Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) >>> -- >>> An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ >>> >>> Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy >>> >>> Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) >>> -- >>> An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ >>> >>> Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy >>> >>> Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) >> -- >> An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ >> >> Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy >> >> Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) > > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) > > > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From joshuaemrich at yahoo.com Thu Oct 11 15:43:48 2012 From: joshuaemrich at yahoo.com (Joshua) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 12:43:48 -0700 Subject: [percy-l] Percy-L Digest, Vol 96, Issue 4 In-Reply-To: References: <1349906119.96968.YahooMailClassic@web141104.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1B40BABB-81ED-4D97-A8AF-EFBD801C3B37@yahoo.com> <351FF859-7054-4D9B-94B6-9B2FD3306931@gmail.com> Message-ID: Of course it's alienating, idiot. The telephone is alienating. So stupid. Sent from my iPhone On Oct 11, 2012, at 10:16 AM, Greg Camacho wrote: > Josh, using salty language isn't a sign of being maladjusted. But lashing out at people for slight offenses is easily. Funny that you think email is alienating... > > The Search (or journey) is a main theme in all of Percy's fiction, readily acknowledged by most people who take his work seriously. In The Moviegoer, The Last Gentleman and Love In the Ruins, the main characters start at an unresolved state, groping for something that integrates their whole person. Some go on literal journeys to get closer to what they sense is an answer. Ultimately, they end up in families, which, in-line with Percy's Catholic faith, is presented as the context for stable and integrative engagement with the Meaning of Life. > > Some people have gone through some hellish experience, and when you find out you think, Oh that's why they act that way. And some people are just immature, unable or unwilling to escape their mutilating habits and projections of inner-ruptures. For certain, I'm often immature, but I don't know you and I wouldn't assume the power to read your soul in any which way. > > But if you'd like to really attune your sensibilities to Percy's habit of being, you might try to understand how and why he would often focus on the grotesquely obscene (e.g., his reflection on pornography at airports) and yet be such a sincere gentleman, especially in letters. For that, let me recommend Matthew Lickona's "Surfing With Mel", and perhaps anything/everything written by Heather King. > > > Best regards, > > Greg > > On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 5:36 PM, Blaise Gratton wrote: > Ha, I can't seem to get rid of it, either. > > > On Oct 10, 2012, at 5:04 PM, Joshua wrote: > >> Kiss my ass. You read to much into the "journey" he wants to take the reader on. I'll be smarmy or whatever the fuck I want on the Internet. Percy would throw up knowing about this ultimate alienating device. I'll never even meet you. We're totally alienated from each other....so kiss off you literary bullshitter. Enjoy your E-alienation in this group of jackasses I'd rather not hear from but can't get rid of. >> Have fun circling the earth! >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Oct 10, 2012, at 2:55 PM, "janetcantor37 at yahoo.com" wrote: >> >>> >>> No need to be smarmy. >>> >>> Ruins goes to great lengths to describe the varied beliefs and religious choices of the locals. You meet along the way many goofy characters who justify their specific nuttiness. I love Percy's descriptions of each one. All this is in service to a story which wants the reader to confront his own ideas of religion and good and evil. >>> >>> Tom's loss of Doris and the story of how he lost her are examples of what has made him adrift. Though it can be read as sad, there is a joke in the new guy that comes along to steal her away. It is the new age "religion" that attracts Doris or distracts her from the loss of their child. So much in Ruins and in other Percy is mocking people's beliefs and how they come by them. It was the way Percy described her leaving that I remember as written with tongue in cheek. Perhaps my impression is wrong. >>> >>> Ellen's deliberate lack of religion does not detract from her being just the right one for Tom at the end. Her steadiness is what he needs. And after all the nonsense of the characters and story in Ruins, she represents calm and order. He has found his love in the ruins. >>> I always love the way Percy ends his books. Be sure when you read Percy to give yourself permission to laugh. He wants to take you on a wild ride and bring you home to predictability. Every one of his novels offers some form of love, of caring for someone else, at the end. >>> Relax and enjoy the journey. >>> Janet Cantor >>> >>> >>> They are 2 different women. And questions can be dumb. >>> (Joshua) >>> >>> > hello all, >>> > >>> > I'm a English graduate student at Texas A&M, and i have a question that hopefully can be answered (or at least assuaged) with consensus. In _Love in the Ruins_ Tom More repeatedly reminisces on his dead wife Doris. we are told that she was a highly principled yet non-religious woman (i believe he refers to her as an ex-episcopalian who found interest in eastern religion). Ellen Oglethorpe, Dr More's secretary and eventual lover, is the referred to in a similar fashion-- a Presbyterian who has "no use" for God, but who adheres to a strict moral code. How then are we to differentiate these women (if we even are to do so), especially in regards to their effect on More? can More's "choosing" of Ellen be a return to a previous state of life--life before the loss of his child--or is there as subtle difference between Doris and Ellen which i am missing? >>> > >>> > >>> > thank you in advance for any enlightenment >>> > >>> > Alex Bell >>> > -- >>> > An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ >>> > >>> > Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy >>> > >>> > Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) >>> -- >>> An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ >>> >>> Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy >>> >>> Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) >>> -- >>> An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ >>> >>> Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy >>> >>> Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) >> -- >> An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ >> >> Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy >> >> Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) > > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) > > > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit The Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > Contact the moderator: percy-l-owner at lists.ibiblio.org (note: add @ sign when addressing email) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anesthesia240 at yahoo.com Thu Oct 11 16:11:56 2012 From: anesthesia240 at yahoo.com (anesthesia240 at yahoo.com) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 16:11:56 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] Joshua Message-ID: <7EDF9D47-0406-427D-A29C-113608352ADE@yahoo.com> Please remove me from your distribution list. This above individual ruins the discussions. Thank you. Sent from my iPhone From randyattwood at hotmail.com Thu Oct 11 20:17:53 2012 From: randyattwood at hotmail.com (Randy Attwood) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 19:17:53 -0500 Subject: [percy-l] Note sent to me from Walker Percy Message-ID: I've made mention of this before, but there may be new members interested. And let me be up front that I'm hawking a book here; if that is inappropriate do please, list manager, take the post down. In Dec. of 1989, I sent the first three chapters of a novel I had written to Walker Percy. Shortly after, I received his handwritten response on my cover letter: ?Randy: It reads well ? I?d be glad to look at rest, but must tell you I?ve had to give up finding agent or publisher for unpublished writers ? I?d be doing nothing else. Everybody in South is writing a novel ? Best, W.P.? I sent the MS to him and waited and waited and then in May the following year woke up one morning to read his obituary in the paper. The novel is "The 41st Sermon," available in ebook and now also as a paperback. In the paperback edition I've included an image of the note. Just search Amazon. The scan of that note can be seen in the blog post below. I thought some Percy fans would be interested in reading the novel that intrigued Percy enough to send me that note. The work has been professionally edited and a lot of bone-headed errors corrected. The corrected version is also now available as the ebook version. http://randyattwood.blogspot.com/2011/09/note-from-walker-percy-about-41st.html Randy Attwood -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: