From honeyjbc at gmail.com Sun Aug 14 17:11:26 2016 From: honeyjbc at gmail.com (honeyjbc1 .) Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 17:11:26 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] comments on the next assignment for the slow read of The Second Coming Message-ID: Chapter three ends with, "He remembered everything." Chapter four begins, "She remembered nothing." We are getting inside Allison's reality more now as we get a description of what she must feel like in her mental illness. She thinks to herself that when she utters words, they don't seem worth uttering. She wonders if they have meanings. Others are easier with words than she is. But already she is beginning to understand that the euphemisms people use often mean the opposite of what they say. Percy's interest in how we communicate is an important part of this book. She has chosen the greenhouse for her abode. She goes about figuring out how to clean it up to make it livable. As she handles things, she begins to remember how they were part of her past. A dog who is on his own joins her. Now the scene changes to what happened before she arrived here. She was in the institution and her parents were coming to see her and to talk to the doctor. Something is afoot. Her lack of socializing with others causes the doctor to think she needs another treatment. When she used to be home with her parents, her father could not hide his disappointment in her. Her mother, on the other hand, "refused to let her fail" - ever the optimist. Seeing her parents all dressed up when they came to visit Allison figured they were just passing through. "The two of them blew in like tropical birds." They talked about Will Barrett. Obviously they are going to the engagement party. Allison thinks, "Talk about me." Her parents had two different ideas for Allison. Her father wanted her to remain under the doctor's care here. And her mother wanted to take Allison home to live in a carriage house on their property. The doctor thinks she is not ready to go home. Mom thinks the only thing wrong with Allison is that she is sensitive. Both Mom and Dad are not taken with the Doctor's suggestion that they come up to participate in some family sessions. They decide to continue this discussion and allow Allison to remain alone in the parlor. Allison listens in and learns that her "Aunt Sally" who was not her aunt but a friend of her aunt, liked her because she always listened to her and no one else would. Sally left Allison her property. Allison takes four hundred dollars from her father's wallet which he had left in his jacket in the parlor. And this is when the idea was hatched that we learned about earlier in the story. Allison knew she had to plan her escape. And that is when she wrote it all down as we saw at the beginning. Now we are back to the greenhouse. Will returns. Somehow Allison feels comfortable with him. The way they communicate is charming to read. He sees the stove in an awkward position and offers to help her move it. But she prefers to do it herself. "The helping is not helping me." He makes some suggestions to help her move it herself. Some things I liked: The phrase - "Down stone steps and into root smelling dark." She cleans out the greenhouse which has wild roots and things growing through windows. It reminded me of the vines growing through the floor and into the house in LITR. Only here the chaos is being made more orderly. "White showed in the smoothed-out crow's feet" of her father. In Thanatos Syndrome there is the same image which is linked to birds flying and earlier in this book we also have birds swooping. I loved the end of page 113 where Will confesses he tends to fall down and she says I tend to pick things up. This so charmingly evidences how each one will be the perfect fit for the other. The sunlight glints on Will's forehead and his hair. Sun reflects off of objects throughout the Percy novels. I asked Jay Tolson about this and he gave me a lovely response: ...The light reflections? Hard to determine authorial intent, but reflected light suggests soul to me. That it is reflected means that the soul is dependent on the source of that light. Whether Percy intended it or not, was aware of it or not, the fact is that these reflected lights are everywhere, speaking to us at a subliminal level, suggests that Percy was showing that we are not autonomous creatures but dependent on the source of our being. Then I read Brian Jobe's essay in the book from Loyola's celebration of the fiftieth anniversary of the publication of The Moviegoer, and wrote this to Dr. Jobe about his essay: ...[You say] There is a mention of clearing which is lichtung which is important to Heidegger because of the word's connections to licht, light as in light of the sun, and liecht, as in lightness or weightlessness, and lichten as in lifting of fog or darkness. This goes on and the paragraph ends in how it provides illumination for the reader. The clearing of Heidegger is a State of Being that has become illuminated, [you say] here. This paragraph connected a lot of dots for me. I also loved that in this essay Jobe says that "Percy will recreate this sense of the clearing at the end of all of his works". This validates the way I read the way Percy ends his novels. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wppdirector at gmail.com Mon Aug 15 19:33:17 2016 From: wppdirector at gmail.com (Henry P. Mills) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 19:33:17 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] Test post: please disregard Message-ID: <920b55af-3ad5-2aad-da7c-b40bedab9f91@gmail.com> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jhforest at gmail.com Fri Aug 19 10:50:43 2016 From: jhforest at gmail.com (Jim Forest) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2016 16:50:43 +0200 Subject: [percy-l] comments on the next assignment for the slow read of The Second Coming In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks honeyjbc1 (sorry, not sure of your name) for the recent posting. Also apologies for being out of the loop recently -- Nancy and I were perched on the edge of a fjord in Norway for two weeks staying with friends. More or less off the map. You wrote: *>> Chapter three ends with, "He remembered everything." Chapter four begins, "She remembered nothing."* There is a solid click as these chapter connect. *>> We are getting inside Allison's reality more now as we get a description of what she must feel like in her mental illness.* *She thinks to herself that when she utters words, they don't seem worth uttering. She wonders if they have meanings. Others are easier with words than she is. But already she is beginning to understand that the euphemisms people use often mean the opposite of what they say. * *Percy's interest in how we communicate is an important part of this book.* Isn?t part of Allison?s ?illness/wellness? that she hears and uses words so carefully, so attentively? *>> She has chosen the greenhouse for her abode. She goes about figuring out how to clean it up to make it livable. As she handles things, she begins to remember how they were part of her past.* As I read the greenhouse pages, it often resonates with the Garden of Eden though no sign of the tree of knowledge or the serpent. Adam and Eve were charged with naming the items of creation -- naming things is, as Percy says over and over again, part of what makes us unique. *>> A dog who is on his own joins her.* And the dog becomes something of a therapist for Allison. Also a protector. *>> Now the scene changes to what happened before she arrived here. She was in the institution and her parents were coming to see her and to talk to the doctor. Something is afoot.* *Her lack of socializing with others causes the doctor to think she needs another treatment.* *When she used to be home with her parents, her father could not hide his disappointment in her. Her mother, on the other hand, "refused to let her fail" - ever the optimist.* *Seeing her parents all dressed up when they came to visit Allison figured they were just passing through. "The two of them blew in like tropical birds." They talked about Will Barrett. Obviously they are going to the engagement party. * *Allison thinks, "Talk about me." * But it seems neither parent actually loves their daughter. Both have made their sudden appearance only because Allison has inherited property worth a fortune which they want to control and cash in on. It?s people in general but Allison?s parents in particular who are the root of her troubles. "Rather than marry and have a life like her mother, she?d rather join the navy and see the world. Why is a home the best place and also the worst? How can the best place become the worst place? What is a home? A home is a place, any place, any building, where one sinks into one?s self and finds company waiting. Company? Who?s company? oneself? somebody else? That?s the problem. The problem is not the house. People are the problem." (p 242) *>> ?. And this is when the idea was hatched that we learned about earlier in the story. Allison knew she had to plan her escape. And that is when she wrote it all down as we saw at the beginning.* An escape not only from the asylum but from the control of mom and dad. *>> Now we are back to the greenhouse. Will returns. Somehow Allison feels comfortable with him. The way they communicate is charming to read.* Charming indeed! In his own craziness, he is perfectly attuned to Allison?s inventive use of language, her innate poetry, her playfulness with words. (Allison: "The helping is not helping me.") *>> ?."White showed in the smoothed-out crow's feet" of her father. In Thanatos Syndrome there is the same image which is linked to birds flying and earlier in this book we also have birds swooping.* *>> I loved the end of page 113 where Will confesses he tends to fall down and she says I tend to pick things up. This so charmingly evidences how each one will be the perfect fit for the other.* I?m grateful for the threads of connection you make with other WP books and between chapters in SC. *>> The sunlight glints on Will's forehead and his hair. Sun reflects off of objects throughout the Percy novels. * *>> I asked Jay Tolson about this and he gave me a lovely response:* *>> ...The light reflections? Hard to determine authorial intent, but reflected light suggests soul to me. That it is reflected means that the soul is dependent on the source of that light. Whether Percy intended it or not, was aware of it or not, the fact is that these reflected lights are everywhere, speaking to us at a subliminal level, suggests that Percy was showing that we are not autonomous creatures but dependent on the source of our being.* A light went on within me as I read that. One more thank you! Re Jay Tolson, I just finished reading his biography of WP. A remarkable book. A treasure. Friendly greetings, Jim Forest * * * On Sun, Aug 14, 2016 at 11:11 PM, honeyjbc1 . wrote: > Chapter three ends with, "He remembered everything." > Chapter four begins, "She remembered nothing." > > We are getting inside Allison's reality more now as we get a description > of what she must feel like in her mental illness. > She thinks to herself that when she utters words, they don't seem worth > uttering. She wonders if they have meanings. Others are easier with words > than she is. But already she is beginning to understand that the euphemisms > people use often mean the opposite of what they say. > Percy's interest in how we communicate is an important part of this book. > > She has chosen the greenhouse for her abode. She goes about figuring out > how to clean it up to make it livable. As she handles things, she begins to > remember how they were part of her past. > A dog who is on his own joins her. > > Now the scene changes to what happened before she arrived here. She was in > the institution and her parents were coming to see her and to talk to the > doctor. Something is afoot. > Her lack of socializing with others causes the doctor to think she needs > another treatment. > > When she used to be home with her parents, her father could not hide his > disappointment in her. Her mother, on the other hand, "refused to let her > fail" - ever the optimist. > Seeing her parents all dressed up when they came to visit Allison figured > they were just passing through. "The two of them blew in like tropical > birds." They talked about Will Barrett. Obviously they are going to the > engagement party. > Allison thinks, "Talk about me." > > Her parents had two different ideas for Allison. Her father wanted her to > remain under the doctor's care here. And her mother wanted to take Allison > home to live in a carriage house on their property. The doctor thinks she > is not ready to go home. Mom thinks the only thing wrong with Allison is > that she is sensitive. Both Mom and Dad are not taken with the Doctor's > suggestion that they come up to participate in some family sessions. They > decide to continue this discussion and allow Allison to remain alone in the > parlor. > Allison listens in and learns that her "Aunt Sally" who was not her aunt > but a friend of her aunt, liked her because she always listened to her and > no one else would. Sally left Allison her property. Allison takes four > hundred dollars from her father's wallet which he had left in his jacket in > the parlor. > And this is when the idea was hatched that we learned about earlier in the > story. Allison knew she had to plan her escape. And that is when she wrote > it all down as we saw at the beginning. > > Now we are back to the greenhouse. Will returns. Somehow Allison feels > comfortable with him. The way they communicate is charming to read. > He sees the stove in an awkward position and offers to help her move it. > But she prefers to do it herself. "The helping is not helping me." He makes > some suggestions to help her move it herself. > > Some things I liked: > > The phrase - "Down stone steps and into root smelling dark." > > She cleans out the greenhouse which has wild roots and things growing > through windows. It reminded me of the vines growing through the floor and > into the house in LITR. Only here the chaos is being made more orderly. > > "White showed in the smoothed-out crow's feet" of her father. In Thanatos > Syndrome there is the same image which is linked to birds flying and > earlier in this book we also have birds swooping. > > I loved the end of page 113 where Will confesses he tends to fall down and > she says I tend to pick things up. This so charmingly evidences how each > one will be the perfect fit for the other. > > The sunlight glints on Will's forehead and his hair. Sun reflects off of > objects throughout the Percy novels. > > I asked Jay Tolson about this and he gave me a lovely response: > > > ...The light reflections? Hard to determine authorial intent, but > reflected light suggests soul to me. That it is reflected means that the > soul is dependent on the source of that light. Whether Percy intended it > or not, was aware of it or not, the fact is that these reflected lights are > everywhere, speaking to us at a subliminal level, suggests that Percy was > showing that we are not autonomous creatures but dependent on the source of > our being. > > > > Then I read Brian Jobe's essay in the book from Loyola's celebration of > the fiftieth anniversary of the publication of The Moviegoer, and wrote > this to Dr. Jobe about his essay: > > ...[You say] There is a mention of clearing which is lichtung which is > important to Heidegger because of the word's connections to licht, light as > in light of the sun, and liecht, as in lightness or weightlessness, and > lichten as in lifting of fog or darkness. > This goes on and the paragraph ends in how it provides illumination for > the reader. > The clearing of Heidegger is a State of Being that has become illuminated, > [you say] here. This paragraph connected a lot of dots for me. > I also loved that in this essay Jobe says that "Percy will recreate this > sense of the clearing at the end of all of his works". > > This validates the way I read the way Percy ends his novels. > > > > * Percy-L Discussion Archives: http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > * Manage Your Membership: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailm > an/listinfo/percy-l > > * Contact the Moderator: percy-l-owner (at) lists.ibiblio.org > > * Visit The Walker Percy Project: http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > -- just out: *The Root of War is Fear: Thomas Merton's Advice to Peacemakers:* http://jimandnancyforest.com/2016/06/root-of-war-is-fear/ recent books: *Loving Our Enemies: Reflections on the Hardest Commandment: * www.jimandnancyforest.com/2014/07/loving-our-enemies/ *Saint Nicholas and the Nine Gold Coins: * www.jimandnancyforest.com/2015/04/saint-nicholas-and-the-nine-gold-coins/ *Books in print*: www.jimandnancyforest.com/books/ *Jim & Nancy web site*: www.jimandnancyforest.com *Photo albums*: https://www.flickr.com/photos/jimforest/albums *Facebook*: https://www.facebook.com/jim.forest1 *Jim & Nancy Forest* Kanisstraat 5 / 1811 GJ Alkmaar / The Netherlands * * * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From honeyjbc at gmail.com Fri Aug 19 11:16:36 2016 From: honeyjbc at gmail.com (honeyjbc1 .) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2016 11:16:36 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] comments on the next assignment for the slow read of The Second Coming In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Jim, I adored your detailed response and I wish that more people were in on this discussion. All that you said made me so happy. Look how Walker Percy can connect us from such different backgrounds! And notice how we may highlight different things - the proof of a great author. Next week I am going to attempt the next portion of the reading. At least we will finish the book here. I do hope that if no one is joining us, at least there are readers to enjoy this. Because of logistical problems with my Yahoo mail on the List, I changed to Gmail. My nickname is Honey. But I am Janet Cantor On Fri, Aug 19, 2016 at 10:50 AM, Jim Forest wrote: > Thanks honeyjbc1 (sorry, not sure of your name) for the recent posting. > Also apologies for being out of the loop recently -- Nancy and I were > perched on the edge of a fjord in Norway for two weeks staying with > friends. More or less off the map. > > > > You wrote: > > > > *>> Chapter three ends with, "He remembered everything." Chapter four > begins, "She remembered nothing."* > > > > There is a solid click as these chapter connect. > > > > *>> We are getting inside Allison's reality more now as we get a > description of what she must feel like in her mental illness.* > > *She thinks to herself that when she utters words, they don't seem worth > uttering. She wonders if they have meanings. Others are easier with words > than she is. But already she is beginning to understand that the euphemisms > people use often mean the opposite of what they say. * > > *Percy's interest in how we communicate is an important part of this book.* > > > > Isn?t part of Allison?s ?illness/wellness? that she hears and uses words > so carefully, so attentively? > > > > *>> She has chosen the greenhouse for her abode. She goes about figuring > out how to clean it up to make it livable. As she handles things, she > begins to remember how they were part of her past.* > > > > As I read the greenhouse pages, it often resonates with the Garden of Eden > though no sign of the tree of knowledge or the serpent. > > > > Adam and Eve were charged with naming the items of creation -- naming > things is, as Percy says over and over again, part of what makes us unique. > > > > *>> A dog who is on his own joins her.* > > > > And the dog becomes something of a therapist for Allison. Also a protector. > > > > *>> Now the scene changes to what happened before she arrived here. She > was in the institution and her parents were coming to see her and to talk > to the doctor. Something is afoot.* > > *Her lack of socializing with others causes the doctor to think she needs > another treatment.* > > *When she used to be home with her parents, her father could not hide his > disappointment in her. Her mother, on the other hand, "refused to let her > fail" - ever the optimist.* > > *Seeing her parents all dressed up when they came to visit Allison figured > they were just passing through. "The two of them blew in like tropical > birds." They talked about Will Barrett. Obviously they are going to the > engagement party. * > > *Allison thinks, "Talk about me." * > > > > But it seems neither parent actually loves their daughter. Both have made > their sudden appearance only because Allison has inherited property worth a > fortune which they want to control and cash in on. It?s people in general > but Allison?s parents in particular who are the root of her troubles. > "Rather than marry and have a life like her mother, she?d rather join the > navy and see the world. Why is a home the best place and also the worst? > How can the best place become the worst place? What is a home? A home is a > place, any place, any building, where one sinks into one?s self and finds > company waiting. Company? Who?s company? oneself? somebody else? That?s the > problem. The problem is not the house. People are the problem." (p 242) > > > > *>> ?. And this is when the idea was hatched that we learned about earlier > in the story. Allison knew she had to plan her escape. And that is when she > wrote it all down as we saw at the beginning.* > > > > An escape not only from the asylum but from the control of mom and dad. > > > > *>> Now we are back to the greenhouse. Will returns. Somehow Allison feels > comfortable with him. The way they communicate is charming to read.* > > > > Charming indeed! In his own craziness, he is perfectly attuned to > Allison?s inventive use of language, her innate poetry, her playfulness > with words. (Allison: "The helping is not helping me.") > > > > *>> ?."White showed in the smoothed-out crow's feet" of her father. In > Thanatos Syndrome there is the same image which is linked to birds flying > and earlier in this book we also have birds swooping.* > > *>> I loved the end of page 113 where Will confesses he tends to fall down > and she says I tend to pick things up. This so charmingly evidences how > each one will be the perfect fit for the other.* > > > > I?m grateful for the threads of connection you make with other WP books > and between chapters in SC. > > > > *>> The sunlight glints on Will's forehead and his hair. Sun reflects off > of objects throughout the Percy novels. * > > *>> I asked Jay Tolson about this and he gave me a lovely response:* > > *>> ...The light reflections? Hard to determine authorial intent, but > reflected light suggests soul to me. That it is reflected means that the > soul is dependent on the source of that light. Whether Percy intended it or > not, was aware of it or not, the fact is that these reflected lights are > everywhere, speaking to us at a subliminal level, suggests that Percy was > showing that we are not autonomous creatures but dependent on the source of > our being.* > > > > A light went on within me as I read that. One more thank you! > > > > Re Jay Tolson, I just finished reading his biography of WP. A remarkable > book. A treasure. > > > > Friendly greetings, > > > > Jim Forest > > > > * * * > > > On Sun, Aug 14, 2016 at 11:11 PM, honeyjbc1 . wrote: > >> Chapter three ends with, "He remembered everything." >> Chapter four begins, "She remembered nothing." >> >> We are getting inside Allison's reality more now as we get a description >> of what she must feel like in her mental illness. >> She thinks to herself that when she utters words, they don't seem worth >> uttering. She wonders if they have meanings. Others are easier with words >> than she is. But already she is beginning to understand that the euphemisms >> people use often mean the opposite of what they say. >> Percy's interest in how we communicate is an important part of this book. >> >> She has chosen the greenhouse for her abode. She goes about figuring out >> how to clean it up to make it livable. As she handles things, she begins to >> remember how they were part of her past. >> A dog who is on his own joins her. >> >> Now the scene changes to what happened before she arrived here. She was >> in the institution and her parents were coming to see her and to talk to >> the doctor. Something is afoot. >> Her lack of socializing with others causes the doctor to think she needs >> another treatment. >> >> When she used to be home with her parents, her father could not hide his >> disappointment in her. Her mother, on the other hand, "refused to let her >> fail" - ever the optimist. >> Seeing her parents all dressed up when they came to visit Allison figured >> they were just passing through. "The two of them blew in like tropical >> birds." They talked about Will Barrett. Obviously they are going to the >> engagement party. >> Allison thinks, "Talk about me." >> >> Her parents had two different ideas for Allison. Her father wanted her to >> remain under the doctor's care here. And her mother wanted to take Allison >> home to live in a carriage house on their property. The doctor thinks she >> is not ready to go home. Mom thinks the only thing wrong with Allison is >> that she is sensitive. Both Mom and Dad are not taken with the Doctor's >> suggestion that they come up to participate in some family sessions. They >> decide to continue this discussion and allow Allison to remain alone in the >> parlor. >> Allison listens in and learns that her "Aunt Sally" who was not her aunt >> but a friend of her aunt, liked her because she always listened to her and >> no one else would. Sally left Allison her property. Allison takes four >> hundred dollars from her father's wallet which he had left in his jacket in >> the parlor. >> And this is when the idea was hatched that we learned about earlier in >> the story. Allison knew she had to plan her escape. And that is when she >> wrote it all down as we saw at the beginning. >> >> Now we are back to the greenhouse. Will returns. Somehow Allison feels >> comfortable with him. The way they communicate is charming to read. >> He sees the stove in an awkward position and offers to help her move it. >> But she prefers to do it herself. "The helping is not helping me." He makes >> some suggestions to help her move it herself. >> >> Some things I liked: >> >> The phrase - "Down stone steps and into root smelling dark." >> >> She cleans out the greenhouse which has wild roots and things growing >> through windows. It reminded me of the vines growing through the floor and >> into the house in LITR. Only here the chaos is being made more orderly. >> >> "White showed in the smoothed-out crow's feet" of her father. In Thanatos >> Syndrome there is the same image which is linked to birds flying and >> earlier in this book we also have birds swooping. >> >> I loved the end of page 113 where Will confesses he tends to fall down >> and she says I tend to pick things up. This so charmingly evidences how >> each one will be the perfect fit for the other. >> >> The sunlight glints on Will's forehead and his hair. Sun reflects off of >> objects throughout the Percy novels. >> >> I asked Jay Tolson about this and he gave me a lovely response: >> >> >> ...The light reflections? Hard to determine authorial intent, but >> reflected light suggests soul to me. That it is reflected means that the >> soul is dependent on the source of that light. Whether Percy intended it >> or not, was aware of it or not, the fact is that these reflected lights are >> everywhere, speaking to us at a subliminal level, suggests that Percy was >> showing that we are not autonomous creatures but dependent on the source of >> our being. >> >> >> >> Then I read Brian Jobe's essay in the book from Loyola's celebration of >> the fiftieth anniversary of the publication of The Moviegoer, and wrote >> this to Dr. Jobe about his essay: >> >> ...[You say] There is a mention of clearing which is lichtung which is >> important to Heidegger because of the word's connections to licht, light as >> in light of the sun, and liecht, as in lightness or weightlessness, and >> lichten as in lifting of fog or darkness. >> This goes on and the paragraph ends in how it provides illumination for >> the reader. >> The clearing of Heidegger is a State of Being that has become >> illuminated, [you say] here. This paragraph connected a lot of dots for me. >> I also loved that in this essay Jobe says that "Percy will recreate this >> sense of the clearing at the end of all of his works". >> >> This validates the way I read the way Percy ends his novels. >> >> >> >> * Percy-L Discussion Archives: http://lists.ibiblio.org/piper >> mail/percy-l/ >> >> * Manage Your Membership: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailm >> an/listinfo/percy-l >> >> * Contact the Moderator: percy-l-owner (at) lists.ibiblio.org >> >> * Visit The Walker Percy Project: http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy >> >> > > > -- > just out: > > *The Root of War is Fear: Thomas Merton's Advice to Peacemakers:* > http://jimandnancyforest.com/2016/06/root-of-war-is-fear/ > > recent books: > > *Loving Our Enemies: Reflections on the Hardest Commandment: * > www.jimandnancyforest.com/2014/07/loving-our-enemies/ > *Saint Nicholas and the Nine Gold Coins: * > www.jimandnancyforest.com/2015/04/saint-nicholas-and-the-nine-gold-coins/ > > *Books in print*: www.jimandnancyforest.com/books/ > *Jim & Nancy web site*: www.jimandnancyforest.com > *Photo albums*: https://www.flickr.com/photos/jimforest/albums > *Facebook*: https://www.facebook.com/jim.forest1 > > *Jim & Nancy Forest* > Kanisstraat 5 / 1811 GJ Alkmaar / The Netherlands > > * * * > > * Percy-L Discussion Archives: http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > * Manage Your Membership: http://lists.ibiblio.org/ > mailman/listinfo/percy-l > > * Contact the Moderator: percy-l-owner (at) lists.ibiblio.org > > * Visit The Walker Percy Project: http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jhforest at gmail.com Sat Aug 20 07:30:52 2016 From: jhforest at gmail.com (Jim Forest) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2016 13:30:52 +0200 Subject: [percy-l] comments on the next assignment for the slow read of The Second Coming Message-ID: Ah, Janet! Or may I call you Honey? I?ve always appreciated your postings. If ever I make my way to Louisiana I?d love to drop by and say hello. Living in Holland has many pluses but Louisiana is not in the neighborhood. >> I wish that more people were in on this discussion. Maybe people who would otherwise be taking part are on vacation?? >> All that you said made me so happy. Look how Walker Percy can connect us from such different backgrounds! And notice how we may highlight different things - the proof of a great author. I?m currently rereading Second Coming for the second time in the past month, after many years of first reading the book. The current re-reading is less hurried -- I am not being rushed along by curiosity about what will happen next but paying closer attention to the vibrancy of the prose and Percy?s mischievous ways of prodding his readers to think. I?m also basking in his humor. >> Next week I am going to attempt the next portion of the reading. Where are you now in the book? Nancy and I are at about p 250? A favorite passage in the chapters recently read: ** Perhaps it was a matter of ?falling in love.? She knew a great deal about pulleys and hoists but nothing about love. She went to the library to look up love as she had looked up the mechanical advantages of pulleys. Surely great writers and great lovers of the past had written things worth reading?. ** As I see Allison as an Eve figure -- someone for whom the world is brand new and everything is in need of naming and decoding -- among her great tasks (greatest task?) is to decode what love is all about, both love as a deep linking with another and love as in love-making as in ?doing it?? Books at the library don?t prove helpful. There is of course Will as a kind of Adam, erupting from the womb-like cave in which he had been risking his life by forcing God to give him a sign, or by failing to do so, give him a non-sign. The sign he gets is Allison. (But also a toothache!) Note the lengths to which Percy goes to present Will?s arrival into the greenhouse as a birth. When he lands on the floor of the greenhouse he is ?smeared head to toe with a whitish grease like a channel swimmer.? (p 233) Newborn babies also have such a waxy substance about their bodies. >> At least we will finish the book here. I do hope that if no one is joining us, at least there are readers to enjoy this. Even if there is only a handful reading these occasional postings, it?s worthwhile. Jim PS One currently silent participant in this exchange is my wife Nancy, who managed to break her right arm while we were in Norway when an over-friendly Newfoundland 70-kilo dog named Sonia jumped up to greet her. That was 11 days ago. She's healing well but left-handed typing is a challenge. Photos taken in Norway, should you care to see them, are in this album: https://www.flickr.com/photos/jimforest/albums/72157670909704050 * * * On Fri, Aug 19, 2016 at 5:16 PM, honeyjbc1 . wrote: > Dear Jim, > I adored your detailed response and I wish that more people were in on > this discussion. > > All that you said made me so happy. Look how Walker Percy can connect us > from such different backgrounds! And notice how we may highlight different > things - the proof of a great author. > > Next week I am going to attempt the next portion of the reading. At least > we will finish the book here. I do hope that if no one is joining us, at > least there are readers to enjoy this. > > Because of logistical problems with my Yahoo mail on the List, I changed > to Gmail. > My nickname is Honey. > But I am > Janet Cantor > > On Fri, Aug 19, 2016 at 10:50 AM, Jim Forest wrote: > >> Thanks honeyjbc1 (sorry, not sure of your name) for the recent posting. >> Also apologies for being out of the loop recently -- Nancy and I were >> perched on the edge of a fjord in Norway for two weeks staying with >> friends. More or less off the map. >> >> >> >> You wrote: >> >> >> >> *>> Chapter three ends with, "He remembered everything." Chapter four >> begins, "She remembered nothing."* >> >> >> >> There is a solid click as these chapter connect. >> >> >> >> *>> We are getting inside Allison's reality more now as we get a >> description of what she must feel like in her mental illness.* >> >> *She thinks to herself that when she utters words, they don't seem worth >> uttering. She wonders if they have meanings. Others are easier with words >> than she is. But already she is beginning to understand that the euphemisms >> people use often mean the opposite of what they say. * >> >> *Percy's interest in how we communicate is an important part of this >> book.* >> >> >> >> Isn?t part of Allison?s ?illness/wellness? that she hears and uses words >> so carefully, so attentively? >> >> >> >> *>> She has chosen the greenhouse for her abode. She goes about figuring >> out how to clean it up to make it livable. As she handles things, she >> begins to remember how they were part of her past.* >> >> >> >> As I read the greenhouse pages, it often resonates with the Garden of >> Eden though no sign of the tree of knowledge or the serpent. >> >> >> >> Adam and Eve were charged with naming the items of creation -- naming >> things is, as Percy says over and over again, part of what makes us unique. >> >> >> >> *>> A dog who is on his own joins her.* >> >> >> >> And the dog becomes something of a therapist for Allison. Also a >> protector. >> >> >> >> *>> Now the scene changes to what happened before she arrived here. She >> was in the institution and her parents were coming to see her and to talk >> to the doctor. Something is afoot.* >> >> *Her lack of socializing with others causes the doctor to think she needs >> another treatment.* >> >> *When she used to be home with her parents, her father could not hide his >> disappointment in her. Her mother, on the other hand, "refused to let her >> fail" - ever the optimist.* >> >> *Seeing her parents all dressed up when they came to visit Allison >> figured they were just passing through. "The two of them blew in like >> tropical birds." They talked about Will Barrett. Obviously they are going >> to the engagement party. * >> >> *Allison thinks, "Talk about me." * >> >> >> >> But it seems neither parent actually loves their daughter. Both have made >> their sudden appearance only because Allison has inherited property worth a >> fortune which they want to control and cash in on. It?s people in general >> but Allison?s parents in particular who are the root of her troubles. >> "Rather than marry and have a life like her mother, she?d rather join the >> navy and see the world. Why is a home the best place and also the worst? >> How can the best place become the worst place? What is a home? A home is a >> place, any place, any building, where one sinks into one?s self and finds >> company waiting. Company? Who?s company? oneself? somebody else? That?s the >> problem. The problem is not the house. People are the problem." (p 242) >> >> >> >> *>> ?. And this is when the idea was hatched that we learned about >> earlier in the story. Allison knew she had to plan her escape. And that is >> when she wrote it all down as we saw at the beginning.* >> >> >> >> An escape not only from the asylum but from the control of mom and dad. >> >> >> >> *>> Now we are back to the greenhouse. Will returns. Somehow Allison >> feels comfortable with him. The way they communicate is charming to read.* >> >> >> >> Charming indeed! In his own craziness, he is perfectly attuned to >> Allison?s inventive use of language, her innate poetry, her playfulness >> with words. (Allison: "The helping is not helping me.") >> >> >> >> *>> ?."White showed in the smoothed-out crow's feet" of her father. In >> Thanatos Syndrome there is the same image which is linked to birds flying >> and earlier in this book we also have birds swooping.* >> >> *>> I loved the end of page 113 where Will confesses he tends to fall >> down and she says I tend to pick things up. This so charmingly evidences >> how each one will be the perfect fit for the other.* >> >> >> >> I?m grateful for the threads of connection you make with other WP books >> and between chapters in SC. >> >> >> >> *>> The sunlight glints on Will's forehead and his hair. Sun reflects off >> of objects throughout the Percy novels. * >> >> *>> I asked Jay Tolson about this and he gave me a lovely response:* >> >> *>> ...The light reflections? Hard to determine authorial intent, but >> reflected light suggests soul to me. That it is reflected means that the >> soul is dependent on the source of that light. Whether Percy intended it or >> not, was aware of it or not, the fact is that these reflected lights are >> everywhere, speaking to us at a subliminal level, suggests that Percy was >> showing that we are not autonomous creatures but dependent on the source of >> our being.* >> >> >> >> A light went on within me as I read that. One more thank you! >> >> >> >> Re Jay Tolson, I just finished reading his biography of WP. A remarkable >> book. A treasure. >> >> >> >> Friendly greetings, >> >> >> >> Jim Forest >> >> >> >> * * * >> >> >> On Sun, Aug 14, 2016 at 11:11 PM, honeyjbc1 . wrote: >> >>> Chapter three ends with, "He remembered everything." >>> Chapter four begins, "She remembered nothing." >>> >>> We are getting inside Allison's reality more now as we get a >>> description of what she must feel like in her mental illness. >>> She thinks to herself that when she utters words, they don't seem worth >>> uttering. She wonders if they have meanings. Others are easier with words >>> than she is. But already she is beginning to understand that the euphemisms >>> people use often mean the opposite of what they say. >>> Percy's interest in how we communicate is an important part of this book. >>> >>> She has chosen the greenhouse for her abode. She goes about figuring out >>> how to clean it up to make it livable. As she handles things, she begins to >>> remember how they were part of her past. >>> A dog who is on his own joins her. >>> >>> Now the scene changes to what happened before she arrived here. She was >>> in the institution and her parents were coming to see her and to talk to >>> the doctor. Something is afoot. >>> Her lack of socializing with others causes the doctor to think she needs >>> another treatment. >>> >>> When she used to be home with her parents, her father could not hide >>> his disappointment in her. Her mother, on the other hand, "refused to let >>> her fail" - ever the optimist. >>> Seeing her parents all dressed up when they came to visit Allison >>> figured they were just passing through. "The two of them blew in like >>> tropical birds." They talked about Will Barrett. Obviously they are going >>> to the engagement party. >>> Allison thinks, "Talk about me." >>> >>> Her parents had two different ideas for Allison. Her father wanted her >>> to remain under the doctor's care here. And her mother wanted to take >>> Allison home to live in a carriage house on their property. The doctor >>> thinks she is not ready to go home. Mom thinks the only thing wrong with >>> Allison is that she is sensitive. Both Mom and Dad are not taken with the >>> Doctor's suggestion that they come up to participate in some family >>> sessions. They decide to continue this discussion and allow Allison to >>> remain alone in the parlor. >>> Allison listens in and learns that her "Aunt Sally" who was not her aunt >>> but a friend of her aunt, liked her because she always listened to her and >>> no one else would. Sally left Allison her property. Allison takes four >>> hundred dollars from her father's wallet which he had left in his jacket in >>> the parlor. >>> And this is when the idea was hatched that we learned about earlier in >>> the story. Allison knew she had to plan her escape. And that is when she >>> wrote it all down as we saw at the beginning. >>> >>> Now we are back to the greenhouse. Will returns. Somehow Allison feels >>> comfortable with him. The way they communicate is charming to read. >>> He sees the stove in an awkward position and offers to help her move >>> it. But she prefers to do it herself. "The helping is not helping me." He >>> makes some suggestions to help her move it herself. >>> >>> Some things I liked: >>> >>> The phrase - "Down stone steps and into root smelling dark." >>> >>> She cleans out the greenhouse which has wild roots and things growing >>> through windows. It reminded me of the vines growing through the floor and >>> into the house in LITR. Only here the chaos is being made more orderly. >>> >>> "White showed in the smoothed-out crow's feet" of her father. In >>> Thanatos Syndrome there is the same image which is linked to birds flying >>> and earlier in this book we also have birds swooping. >>> >>> I loved the end of page 113 where Will confesses he tends to fall down >>> and she says I tend to pick things up. This so charmingly evidences how >>> each one will be the perfect fit for the other. >>> >>> The sunlight glints on Will's forehead and his hair. Sun reflects off of >>> objects throughout the Percy novels. >>> >>> I asked Jay Tolson about this and he gave me a lovely response: >>> >>> >>> ...The light reflections? Hard to determine authorial intent, but >>> reflected light suggests soul to me. That it is reflected means that the >>> soul is dependent on the source of that light. Whether Percy intended it >>> or not, was aware of it or not, the fact is that these reflected lights are >>> everywhere, speaking to us at a subliminal level, suggests that Percy was >>> showing that we are not autonomous creatures but dependent on the source of >>> our being. >>> >>> >>> >>> Then I read Brian Jobe's essay in the book from Loyola's celebration of >>> the fiftieth anniversary of the publication of The Moviegoer, and wrote >>> this to Dr. Jobe about his essay: >>> >>> ...[You say] There is a mention of clearing which is lichtung which is >>> important to Heidegger because of the word's connections to licht, light as >>> in light of the sun, and liecht, as in lightness or weightlessness, and >>> lichten as in lifting of fog or darkness. >>> This goes on and the paragraph ends in how it provides illumination for >>> the reader. >>> The clearing of Heidegger is a State of Being that has become >>> illuminated, [you say] here. This paragraph connected a lot of dots for me. >>> I also loved that in this essay Jobe says that "Percy will recreate this >>> sense of the clearing at the end of all of his works". >>> >>> This validates the way I read the way Percy ends his novels. >>> >>> >>> >>> * Percy-L Discussion Archives: http://lists.ibiblio.org/piper >>> mail/percy-l/ >>> >>> * Manage Your Membership: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailm >>> an/listinfo/percy-l >>> >>> * Contact the Moderator: percy-l-owner (at) lists.ibiblio.org >>> >>> * Visit The Walker Percy Project: http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> just out: >> >> *The Root of War is Fear: Thomas Merton's Advice to Peacemakers:* >> http://jimandnancyforest.com/2016/06/root-of-war-is-fear/ >> >> recent books: >> >> *Loving Our Enemies: Reflections on the Hardest Commandment: * >> www.jimandnancyforest.com/2014/07/loving-our-enemies/ >> *Saint Nicholas and the Nine Gold Coins: * >> www.jimandnancyforest.com/2015/04/saint-nicholas-and-the-nine-gold-coins/ >> >> *Books in print*: www.jimandnancyforest.com/books/ >> *Jim & Nancy web site*: www.jimandnancyforest.com >> *Photo albums*: https://www.flickr.com/photos/jimforest/albums >> *Facebook*: https://www.facebook.com/jim.forest1 >> >> *Jim & Nancy Forest* >> Kanisstraat 5 / 1811 GJ Alkmaar / The Netherlands >> >> * * * >> >> * Percy-L Discussion Archives: http://lists.ibiblio.org/piper >> mail/percy-l/ >> >> * Manage Your Membership: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailm >> an/listinfo/percy-l >> >> * Contact the Moderator: percy-l-owner (at) lists.ibiblio.org >> >> * Visit The Walker Percy Project: http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy >> >> > > * Percy-L Discussion Archives: http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > * Manage Your Membership: http://lists.ibiblio.org/ > mailman/listinfo/percy-l > > * Contact the Moderator: percy-l-owner (at) lists.ibiblio.org > > * Visit The Walker Percy Project: http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > -- just out: *The Root of War is Fear: Thomas Merton's Advice to Peacemakers:* http://jimandnancyforest.com/2016/06/root-of-war-is-fear/ recent books: *Loving Our Enemies: Reflections on the Hardest Commandment: * www.jimandnancyforest.com/2014/07/loving-our-enemies/ *Saint Nicholas and the Nine Gold Coins: * www.jimandnancyforest.com/2015/04/saint-nicholas-and-the-nine-gold-coins/ *Books in print*: www.jimandnancyforest.com/books/ *Jim & Nancy web site*: www.jimandnancyforest.com *Photo albums*: https://www.flickr.com/photos/jimforest/albums *Facebook*: https://www.facebook.com/jim.forest1 *Jim & Nancy Forest* Kanisstraat 5 / 1811 GJ Alkmaar / The Netherlands * * * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From honeyjbc at gmail.com Sat Aug 20 08:08:57 2016 From: honeyjbc at gmail.com (honeyjbc1 .) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2016 08:08:57 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] ha ha Message-ID: Dear Jim, You may call me Honey or Janet. I answer to both. And it would be lovely to visit with you in Louisiana, but I live in Philadelphia. I am on schedule in the book to read the next assignment. I will be commenting next week. Janet Cantor From jhforest at gmail.com Sat Aug 20 08:26:59 2016 From: jhforest at gmail.com (Jim Forest) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2016 14:26:59 +0200 Subject: [percy-l] ha ha In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: *>> And it would be lovely to visit with you in Louisiana, but I live in Philadelphia.* >From a Dutch point of view Louisiana and Philadelphia are not far apart, both in the same time zone. On Sat, Aug 20, 2016 at 2:08 PM, honeyjbc1 . wrote: > Dear Jim, > You may call me Honey or Janet. I answer to both. > > And it would be lovely to visit with you in Louisiana, but I live in > Philadelphia. > > I am on schedule in the book to read the next assignment. I will be > commenting next week. > Janet Cantor > * Percy-L Discussion Archives: http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > * Manage Your Membership: http://lists.ibiblio.org/ > mailman/listinfo/percy-l > > * Contact the Moderator: percy-l-owner (at) lists.ibiblio.org > > * Visit The Walker Percy Project: http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > -- just out: *The Root of War is Fear: Thomas Merton's Advice to Peacemakers:* http://jimandnancyforest.com/2016/06/root-of-war-is-fear/ recent books: *Loving Our Enemies: Reflections on the Hardest Commandment: * www.jimandnancyforest.com/2014/07/loving-our-enemies/ *Saint Nicholas and the Nine Gold Coins: * www.jimandnancyforest.com/2015/04/saint-nicholas-and-the-nine-gold-coins/ *Books in print*: www.jimandnancyforest.com/books/ *Jim & Nancy web site*: www.jimandnancyforest.com *Photo albums*: https://www.flickr.com/photos/jimforest/albums *Facebook*: https://www.facebook.com/jim.forest1 *Jim & Nancy Forest* Kanisstraat 5 / 1811 GJ Alkmaar / The Netherlands * * * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From honeyjbc at gmail.com Thu Aug 25 22:52:48 2016 From: honeyjbc at gmail.com (honeyjbc1 .) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 22:52:48 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] Janet Cantor tackles the next section for the slow read of The Second Coming Message-ID: Section V - takes us from pages 122 to 199. We leave Allison as she was preparing her way to freedom from the institution. This part is all Will Barrett. Jack Curl, another marvelous Percy character, the preacher who is supposed to conduct the ceremony for Will's daughter, Leslie's wedding, has a wish that Will spend some of his inheritance in a good deed scheme of Marion's, a retirement village and faith community. Will's dead wife has left him millions. This entire section is musings on death and life and death in life. It bounces back and forth without warning between the present semi oblivion of Will and evocations of his father's suicide attempt. What is the past, is there a present and will there be a future? His daughter, Leslie's impending marriage also stirs questions. But the odd thing is as Will is asking these "deep" questions. Percy is whimsical in his writing so that the reader smiles, and even laughs along the way. There's a whole paragraph on funerals and why people like going to them on page 124 - such a solemn subject - but with the adorable Percy touch. Will wonders why he suddenly sees things more clearly than he has. Something has given him leave to live in the present - bottom of page 123. I am guessing it is Allison is entering his subconscious. When Percy was a teenager his parents took the family on a vacation in Germany, Hitler was in power but it was early days. The teenaged Percy was captivated by a Hitler Youth boy with his dashing looks and excellent uniform and pride. When Percy got home and later realized the horrors of what that youth really represented, Percy was haunted by his impressionistic self. It was an obsessive memory and he felt ashamed. In The Thanatos Syndrome a character spends a lot of time on a similar episode as Percy tried to atone for his gullibility. Here in this book we have on Page 132 again some thoughts on this subject in a smaller example. It ends with a letter Will has memorized from a Roman Centurian who expresses the hope that the deeds they do are for a higher goal. It is fascinating to read this letter in light of this incident in Percy's life. Once again Will wonders if the Jews' leaving is a sign. The way this is written, it is strangely funny at the same time as it is ominous. Will continues to look for answers. He questions the chaplain about religion and belief. The scene keeps shifting in Will's mind without any warning to the reader. from a conversation he is trying to engage himself in and reminders of his father's event with that shotgun. Looking for answers Will keeps going back to trying to figure out what his father was trying to tell him. There is much thought about the shells in the gun. Will figures out that his father's plan was to shoot Will and then himself. He failed on both counts, but his father finally did himself in later. Will figures out that his father was trying to prevent his son from suffering as he did in a world where there is no reason to go on. Will decides, he won't go that way. He will seek answers. This may relate to Percy's good acquaintance with so many people around him committing suicide and Percy decided that it was not going to happen to him. Lewis Peckham, the golf pro wonders if Will needs a psychiatrist because he seems depressed over the loss of his wife. He invites Will to listen to Beethoven. This is not inviting to Will and he makes the excuse that he has to return to the wedding preparations. Plans are being made for the wedding and all parties to the occasion are there. We met Kitty and her husband in the last section when they visited Allison. It turns out that Kitty was an old "flame" of Will's. Kitty was a character in The Last Gentlemen. Kitty flirts with Will and arranges to meet him later for perhaps a rendezvous. (Oy, she is Allison's mother.) She tells Will. "You must meet my daughter. I know you could help her." Will feels bad that he wasn't good father, what with his fade outs, whatever is causing them. While his daughter, Leslie, is not happy about those episodes, she tells him, "You always turned up when I needed you." He takes his leave saying goodbye and taking a long look at her. This seems ominous. Leslie is deep in preparation for her wedding. Kitty has left for her rendezvous with Will. Resolving to meet Kitty, he falls down some steps on his way. Ewell McBee confronts him and harangues him about what a snob he is. Will is bleeding and McBee doesn't notice because he is wrapped up in his diatribe. He wants Will to invest in his blue movies.There will be a couple of girls there for them, one is Jewish. (The Jews haven't all left?) Will thinks again about his father. Will has an epiphany. Maybe his father was right in choosing to kill him. Okay, Will gets an idea. Kitty had mentioned Dr. Sutter Vaught, someone we meet in The Last Gentleman, the other novel involving Will Barrett. Will writes two letters. One is to Lewis Peckham that he would love to come listen to music with him. And the other to Vaught with a complicated series of instructions for him to carry out if he hasn't heard from Will within three weeks. One wonders what Sutter will make of this goofy letter. Will is going to put G-d to the test. If He exists and cares, he will give a sign. Thus ends part V. Some things I liked: Reading these pages, one is tempted to write about every sentence. There is so much wonderful observation, philosophy, wit and beautiful characterization, and the writing is masterful all the way. I will only choose to notice a few things. Here we go again. Page 122 - bright sunlight races like quicksilver around the beveled glass of a door. Page 130 - A shaft of light strikes his hand refracted by a prism. This kind of thing repeats often in Percy as I mentioned last time. Again on Page 122 - The only time Will knows what to do is when something happens to somebody; disaster gives him leave to act. Another common theme. Page 137 - more crow's feet iron out on a face. Percy likes this image. I liked the question on page 124, "Is it possible for people to miss their lives in the same way one misses a plane?" I like this - "We're the once born in a world of twice born." and the rest of that paragraph on page 151. I hope others decide to join in the discussion.