[percy-l] Percy-L Digest, Vol 161, Issue 1
Joseph Francisco
joe.francisco4591 at gmail.com
Sun Aug 2 13:59:01 EDT 2020
If I can still add to this thread: I just happened to pick the "Morte
Darthur" off of my book shelves and of course I saw two familiar names:
Lancelot and Percival. Certainly reasonable to think that the Dr would have
delved into medieval literature for inspiration, pursuant to the Catholic
quality of his writing.
So this is to say that perhaps it would be helpful, for those who don't
know, or have forgotten, that Lancelot is a knight mired in his sin, unable
to respond to the presence of the Blessed Sacrament, as his heart is
"harder than stone and bitterer than the tree." He later runs across a
hermit and confesses himself, receives council about the error of his ways
and how he might fix them, and is absolved.
Sir Percival, on the other hand, was a knight of near-perfect faith in
Christ. He is rewaded with a strong and beautful horse, while in the
preceding story, Sir Lancelot loses his horse.
Just a little background on what may have been WP's inspiration for his own
characters. Forgive me if I have misreported any details of these dense,
allegorical tales, the language of which features many foreign words and
usages.
--Joe Francisco
On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 5:12 PM Michael Larson <larsonovic at gmail.com> wrote:
> Rhonda,
>
> That is an interesting speculation. Of course, the true priest always
> presents the Immaculate Christ, right, specifically in the mass and the
> sacraments? But then in this case, we can't really say that Lance's
> confession is a sacramental one. In fact, it is clearly not. So the role of
> Percival is indeed reduced more to friend than priest, in which case the
> emphasis on fellow sinner is more apt. On the other hand, Percy paints the
> dramatic situation to suggest a sacramental setting, the confined cell, the
> silence of the priest throughout all the long confession, the fact that the
> listener IS a priest, etc.. So he is playing with both ideas. The silence
> of Percival speaks volumes, though. There is in it both a pregnant judgment
> and a way to bear it, I suspect. But that is in the pages we do not see ...
>
> Mike
>
> On Thu, Jul 2, 2020 at 11:04 AM <percy-l-request at lists.ibiblio.org> wrote:
>
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>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Debt Forgiveness and Lancelot (Michael Larson)
>> 2. Re: Debt Forgiveness and Lancelot (RHONDA MCDONNELL)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2020 17:37:13 -0500
>> From: Michael Larson <larsonovic at gmail.com>
>> To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org
>> Subject: [percy-l] Debt Forgiveness and Lancelot
>> Message-ID:
>> <
>> CAMmLp8iMYv2ks-wmUo9y6RJEDu_RffaEvsYYYfm1sjM5Wp+GWQ at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Debt forgiveness is for the ignorant (those who know not what they do)
>> and
>> for the repentant, those who are sorry for their wrongs and aim to amend
>> their lives. This latter implies a belief in an objective moral order.
>>
>> In *Lancelot*, three ways are proposed (p. 255-57): 1) Sodom: the way of
>> the modern world (i.e. rejection of an objective moral order), 2) Lance's
>> way (i.e. a return to an objective moral order, enforced with an iron
>> fist:
>> a new version of the Old Law), 3) Percival's way: the way of the Church
>> (i.e. acceptance of an objective moral order, but mercy for the penitent:
>> a
>> return to the New Law, a.k.a. Christendom).
>>
>> The world at present is in the final throes of the first way, but Lancelot
>> and Percival agree that the future of humanity cannot continue in this
>> way.
>> They agree beyond any doubt that it will be either the second or the third
>> way, but not both. And we know which of the two Percy, the author, is
>> asserting by the final words of the novel, when Lancelot asks Percival,
>> "Is
>> there anything you wish to tell me before I leave?" and Percival, who has
>> been the silent hearer of Lance's 255-page confession, responds, "Yes."
>>
>> Probably he will tell Lance that without sorrow for his sins, the new
>> beginning he envisions is as doomed as the modern world.
>>
>> Mike Larson
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>> Message: 2
>> Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2020 22:56:25 +0000
>> From: RHONDA MCDONNELL <rhonda_mcdonnell at msn.com>
>> To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion"
>> <percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org>
>> Subject: Re: [percy-l] Debt Forgiveness and Lancelot
>> Message-ID:
>> <
>> DM6PR14MB26173BA65586259A43104B7AE46C0 at DM6PR14MB2617.namprd14.prod.outlook.com
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>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Thanks for the perspective, Michael. Wondering what Father John is going
>> to say has taken up some mental energy on my end, as well. I?ve always
>> imagined that he would note Lance?s hypocrisy and, as a stand in for God,
>> present the ?maculate Christ? as Tom Moore sees in Love in the Ruins. In
>> other words, Father John would speak to Lancelot not as a judge or even a
>> priest, but as a fellow sinner who is, even so, a believer.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Rhonda McDonnell
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jul 1, 2020, at 6:38 PM, Michael Larson <larsonovic at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> ?
>> Debt forgiveness is for the ignorant (those who know not what they do)
>> and for the repentant, those who are sorry for their wrongs and aim to
>> amend their lives. This latter implies a belief in an objective moral order.
>>
>> In Lancelot, three ways are proposed (p. 255-57): 1) Sodom: the way of
>> the modern world (i.e. rejection of an objective moral order), 2) Lance's
>> way (i.e. a return to an objective moral order, enforced with an iron fist:
>> a new version of the Old Law), 3) Percival's way: the way of the Church
>> (i.e. acceptance of an objective moral order, but mercy for the penitent: a
>> return to the New Law, a.k.a. Christendom).
>>
>> The world at present is in the final throes of the first way, but
>> Lancelot and Percival agree that the future of humanity cannot continue in
>> this way. They agree beyond any doubt that it will be either the second or
>> the third way, but not both. And we know which of the two Percy, the
>> author, is asserting by the final words of the novel, when Lancelot asks
>> Percival, "Is there anything you wish to tell me before I leave?" and
>> Percival, who has been the silent hearer of Lance's 255-page confession,
>> responds, "Yes."
>>
>> Probably he will tell Lance that without sorrow for his sins, the new
>> beginning he envisions is as doomed as the modern world.
>>
>> Mike Larson
>>
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