[percy-l] [External] Re: Percy-L Digest, Vol 161, Issue 6

Thomas Gollier tgollier at gmail.com
Sat Jul 18 10:17:39 EDT 2020


David,

I have to say it was the possibility of "redemption" that I found so
amazing in this novel. Here is
Lance, a man who, if I'm reading this right, murdered his wife and her
lover, killed a couple of
others in the process, essentially committed suicide himself, and who at
the end of his long
recounting (confession?) is being released from the hospital/prison
(purgatory?) and is off to
make a new life (admitted to heaven?). Sure gives the rest of sinners some
hope.

But then, what the hell, maybe I'm reading too much into it?

Thanks,
Tom

On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 11:05 AM Beck, David A <dabeck at iupui.edu> wrote:

> I'm not sure we can go as far as saying Lance found redemption. I didn't
> see any evidence of that. He makes his confession but doesn't seem to
> bothered by what he has done. He didn't receive absolution, because he
> wasn't repentant.
>
>
> It seems to me the "transformation" is that of Fr. John (Percival). At
> first, he is troubled, abstracted, and seems to be having doubts. After
> hearing Lance's ravings, he realizes that he has to make a choice. Then he
> returns wearing his clerical "outfit" and seems to have found renewal in
> his faith. I read somewhere (did Percy say it?) that Fr. John is the real
> protagonist.
>
>
> If I'm wrong, I've led many a college student astray over the years. :-)
>
>
> Just my two cents.
>
>
> -David
>
>
> David Beck
> Senior Lecturer
> English Department
> Indiana University and Purdue University at Indianapolis
> 425 University Boulevard, CA 343-E
> Indianapolis, IN 46202
> 317-278-2550
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Percy-L <percy-l-bounces+dabeck=iupui.edu at lists.ibiblio.org> on
> behalf of Lauren Berdy <lauren.stacy.berdy at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, July 17, 2020 1:32 PM
> *To:* Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion
> *Subject:* [External] Re: [percy-l] Percy-L Digest, Vol 161, Issue 6
>
> This message was sent from a non-IU address. Please exercise caution when
> clicking links or opening attachments from external sources.
>
> . “If there is, that subjective self will evaporate. If
> that is what heaven or hell is, what we are with ourselves, then that can
> be one thing for Lance and
> another for Percival, and while we are living, that subjective self is a
> "poison" to the social and
> objective selves of being alive among others and things. Lance's
> confession all along seems to be the
> story of that poisonous influence in his life and how it became his
> redemption at the end.”
>
>
>
> The reason this human was so captivated by reading Dr Percy was how he
> himself struggled with his own subjective self.
>
>
>
> The communion tween Percival and Lance was a way to transmit the unknowing?
>
> The interval between two thoughts is not a blank but a silence.  Whilst
> the Former is a sign of inadequacy, the latter enables thoughts to complete
> themselves so that they are not crowded. ( think how many times DP went to
> silently commune with other men(…the interval is used in art………think
> Chinese painting…to encourage the onlooker to look at the picture poised
> and silent. The  space in the painting corresponds to the interval between
> the thought and the mind.
>
>
>
> Perhaps reality cannot be communicated but, it can somehow be known? Is
> that then Compassion?
>
>
>
> Thank you
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
>
>
> *From: *Thomas Gollier <tgollier at gmail.com>
> *Sent: *Friday, July 17, 2020 12:13 PM
> *To: *Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion
> <percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [percy-l] Percy-L Digest, Vol 161, Issue 6
>
>
>
> Mike,
>
> Sorry for the ambiguity in what I wrote. In reading Lancelot I felt all
> along that he was talking to God
> — primarily because he wasn't getting any answers — and I didn't realize
> until pretty far along that this
> other character was Percival. It was not a conversation with God but a
> conversation with another
>
> seeker of the Holy Grail. This was even better, more Walker Percy to me,
> but either way, God or Percival
>
> was already dead or beyond life, and when I wrote "he too" I was referring
> to Lance dying in the
> explosion along with the others in the house.
>
> So when Percival says "yes," he still has to tell Lance that he too is no
> longer living, and what they
> have been discussing all along has been what "heaven" is, or should be. If
> I can go further out on the
> limb here, I'd posit that "heaven" (as well as "hell") is how and what we
> are with ourselves. Unlike
>
> how we maintain ourselves with others intersubjectively and with things
> objectively, there can be no
>
> dishonesty or pretense about who we are with ourselves. If there is, that
> subjective self will evaporate. If
> that is what heaven or hell is, what we are with ourselves, then that can
> be one thing for Lance and
> another for Percival, and while we are living, that subjective self is a
> "poison" to the social and
> objective selves of being alive among others and things. Lance's
> confession all along seems to be the
> story of that poisonous influence in his life and how it became his
> redemption at the end.
>
> That view of "heaven" is probably no less ambiguous than what I wrote the
> first time, but in my defense, I
> think it's what makes art art ("poetic writing" that also involves "poetic
> thought" as Wallace Stevens
> put it). Anyway, I'm not trying to substantiate all this; I'm just trying
> to describe the vista Percy opened
>
> up in my own imagination. I'd certainly be interested in your take on it.
>
>
> Thanks,
> Tom
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 1:49 PM Michael Larson <larsonovic at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Tom,
>
>
>
> Thanks for the note. I find the idea that Percival has died in the
> explosion to be intriguing. Would his final visit to Lance then be that of
> a ghost? Are you suggesting that what he has to tell Lance comes from
> beyond the grave?
>
>
>
> I'm not following the end of your thought, though. They might have two
> different ideas of heaven, but I don't see how there can be poison in both
> ideas, especially if we allow, as the two men do, that it cannot be both,
> objectively. And further, though they might both "pick" an idea, the
> reality remains indifferent to their choices. It just is what it is.
>
>
>
> But do steer me differently if I have not understood your meaning.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
> Mike
>
>
>
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