I included this question in my Introduction, but then I thought that it might not get seen there, so I'll repeat it here. I hope this doesn't create any confusion.
I have a question about John 20.7: “καὶ τὸ σουδάριον, ὃ ἦν ἐπὶ τῆς κεφαλῆς αὐτοῦ, οὐ μετὰ τῶν ὀθονίων κείμενον ἀλλὰ χωρὶς ἐντετυλιγμένον εἰς ἕνα τόπον·”
My question concerns in particular the phrase: “ἀλλὰ χωρὶς ἐντετυλιγμένον εἰς ἕνα τόπον·”
Most translations give the impression that the σουδάριον had been deliberately rolled up or folded and placed at a certain distance from the rest of the linen wrappings. For example, the American Standard Version has: “and the napkin, that was upon his head, not lying with the linen cloths, but rolled up in a place by itself.”
However, I have read some commentaries which argue that the Greek text means simply that the σουδάριον was in the place where the head of Jesus had been – separate in the sense of not being attached to the linen wrappings but rather an independent piece of cloth – and still maintaining the wrapped form it had had when tied around Jesus’ head, albeit now deflated or empty.
This idea seems to be reflected in the New International Version: “as well as the cloth that had been wrapped around Jesus' head. The cloth was still lying in its place, separate from the linen.”
I would like to know if this second position is sustainable from the linguistic point of view.
Thank you.
Thomas Hagen
σουδάριον in John 20.7
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Re: σουδάριον in John 20.7
Since εις means „one, single, unity“ and not „separate“ (at least that‘s what my dictionaries tell me), I wouldn‘t interpret it here as „separate“, which i suppose would point to a greek construction with something like εκαστος or ιδιος.
Jean Putmans
Netherlands
gotischebibel.blogspot.com
Netherlands
gotischebibel.blogspot.com
Re: σουδάριον in John 20.7
I was thinking that the idea of "separate" comes from the word χωρὶς.
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Re: σουδάριον in John 20.7
If I have understood the words correctly, then
1. It's χωρὶς which creates the translation "separate" (contra Jean above).
2. The difference may come from how χωρὶς ἐντετυλιγμένον is interpreted.
It could be possible to take it as tightly connected,
χωρὶς ἐντετυλιγμένον = folded to be separate or folded as a separate piece
or as not connected but parallel,
χωρὶς, ἐντετυλιγμένον = separated (from other pieces), folded
If important translations interpret it two different ways, it's a sign that there probably isn't a definitive answer. In any case I wouldn't base a sermon on either interpretation.
1. It's χωρὶς which creates the translation "separate" (contra Jean above).
2. The difference may come from how χωρὶς ἐντετυλιγμένον is interpreted.
It could be possible to take it as tightly connected,
χωρὶς ἐντετυλιγμένον = folded to be separate or folded as a separate piece
or as not connected but parallel,
χωρὶς, ἐντετυλιγμένον = separated (from other pieces), folded
If important translations interpret it two different ways, it's a sign that there probably isn't a definitive answer. In any case I wouldn't base a sermon on either interpretation.
Re: σουδάριον in John 20.7
Thank you for your comment, and I agree with your observation concerning a sermon.Eeli Kaikkonen wrote: ↑April 18th, 2025, 8:54 am If I have understood the words correctly, then
1. It's χωρὶς which creates the translation "separate" (contra Jean above).
2. The difference may come from how χωρὶς ἐντετυλιγμένον is interpreted.
It could be possible to take it as tightly connected,
χωρὶς ἐντετυλιγμένον = folded to be separate or folded as a separate piece
or as not connected but parallel,
χωρὶς, ἐντετυλιγμένον = separated (from other pieces), folded
If important translations interpret it two different ways, it's a sign that there probably isn't a definitive answer. In any case I wouldn't base a sermon on either interpretation.
Re: σουδάριον in John 20.7
Thank you for your comment, and I agree with your observation concerning a sermon.Eeli Kaikkonen wrote: ↑April 18th, 2025, 8:54 am If I have understood the words correctly, then
1. It's χωρὶς which creates the translation "separate" (contra Jean above).
2. The difference may come from how χωρὶς ἐντετυλιγμένον is interpreted.
It could be possible to take it as tightly connected,
χωρὶς ἐντετυλιγμένον = folded to be separate or folded as a separate piece
or as not connected but parallel,
χωρὶς, ἐντετυλιγμένον = separated (from other pieces), folded
If important translations interpret it two different ways, it's a sign that there probably isn't a definitive answer. In any case I wouldn't base a sermon on either interpretation.
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Re: σουδάριον in John 20.7
I agree with Eeli. Let me expand on it a little ...
Here's the crucial phrase: ἀλλὰ χωρὶς ἐντετυλιγμένον εἰς ἕνα τόπον
Let’s look at the key words:
- χωρὶς – “separate” or “apart” – likely spatial, not just conceptual
- ἐντετυλιγμένον – perfect passive participle of ἐντυλίσσω – “having been wrapped up” (not necessarily “folded”)
- εἰς ἕνα τόπον – “in one place” – a specific location, but no distance indicated
I think there are two plausible readings:
1. Folded and Placed
- τὸ σουδάριον was intentionally folded and laid in a different spot from the ὀθόνια.
- ἐντετυλιγμένον = an action: it had been folded/wrapped, suggesting human agency.
- χωρὶς...εἰς ἕνα τόπον = placed separately in a specific location.
This interpretation gives a sense of someone taking the time to fold the clothes and lay them neatly in the right place.
2. Still in Its Wrapped Shape, Lying Where the Head Had Been
- τὸ σουδάριον was not with the rest of the linens because it had been on the head, so it remained in its own place.
- ἐντετυλιγμένον = describing its form, still “wrapped” as it had been around the head—now empty, not unfolded.
- χωρὶς...εἰς ἕνα τόπον = the place where the head had been, spatially distinct from the ὀθόνια on the torso.
This fits the burial positioning and explains the visual impact in v.8—linen wrappings lying collapsed, still shaped but now hollow.
I think either reading is plausible. I like the second better, it puts the focus on the miracle: the body is gone, the wrappings are undisturbed.
Here's the crucial phrase: ἀλλὰ χωρὶς ἐντετυλιγμένον εἰς ἕνα τόπον
Let’s look at the key words:
- χωρὶς – “separate” or “apart” – likely spatial, not just conceptual
- ἐντετυλιγμένον – perfect passive participle of ἐντυλίσσω – “having been wrapped up” (not necessarily “folded”)
- εἰς ἕνα τόπον – “in one place” – a specific location, but no distance indicated
I think there are two plausible readings:
1. Folded and Placed
- τὸ σουδάριον was intentionally folded and laid in a different spot from the ὀθόνια.
- ἐντετυλιγμένον = an action: it had been folded/wrapped, suggesting human agency.
- χωρὶς...εἰς ἕνα τόπον = placed separately in a specific location.
This interpretation gives a sense of someone taking the time to fold the clothes and lay them neatly in the right place.
2. Still in Its Wrapped Shape, Lying Where the Head Had Been
- τὸ σουδάριον was not with the rest of the linens because it had been on the head, so it remained in its own place.
- ἐντετυλιγμένον = describing its form, still “wrapped” as it had been around the head—now empty, not unfolded.
- χωρὶς...εἰς ἕνα τόπον = the place where the head had been, spatially distinct from the ὀθόνια on the torso.
This fits the burial positioning and explains the visual impact in v.8—linen wrappings lying collapsed, still shaped but now hollow.
I think either reading is plausible. I like the second better, it puts the focus on the miracle: the body is gone, the wrappings are undisturbed.
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/
Re: σουδάριον in John 20.7
Thank you, Jonathan Robie, for this analysis. I, too, already preferred the second interpretation. Now I know that from the linguistic point of view it has, if not certainty, at least justification. Evidently, we are not meant to know the "mechanics" of how Jesus rose. That is probably best, so that we don't base our faith in the resurrection on knowing how it happened but rather on the impact Christ has on our lives now.
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Re: σουδάριον in John 20.7
Keep asking good questions! B-Greek goes quiet when nobody is asking them.tghagen wrote: ↑April 19th, 2025, 9:55 am Thank you, Jonathan Robie, for this analysis. I, too, already preferred the second interpretation. Now I know that from the linguistic point of view it has, if not certainty, at least justification. Evidently, we are not meant to know the "mechanics" of how Jesus rose. That is probably best, so that we don't base our faith in the resurrection on knowing how it happened but rather on the impact Christ has on our lives now.
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/
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Re: σουδάριον in John 20.7
FWIW, I do preach sermons where I say, "one possible interpretation is ..."Eeli Kaikkonen wrote: ↑April 18th, 2025, 8:54 am If important translations interpret it two different ways, it's a sign that there probably isn't a definitive answer. In any case I wouldn't base a sermon on either interpretation.
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/