Jn. 1:1

jordan@chuma.cas.usf.edu (Greg Jordan) wrote:

>In Matt. 19:8 and Luke 20:19 we have limited support for a meaning of 
>_pros_ as "[spoken] in reference to, about."  This would explain the 
>accusative, which would be awkward for place-where, but not for 
>topicality.  Rendering _logos_ "message" perhaps we could eke out:

>At first [there] was the message
>And the message was concerning God
>And the message was: "God" [or, the message was divine]
>(v. 18) No one has ever seen God at any time, but his only born son, who 
>{was come into his father's bosom ?}, he told [about him].

>Never minding the difficulties with the {} part, which would make another 
>interesting thread.

     BAGD has, "with reference to (i.e. because of) your perversity" for Mat.
19:8. I wonder, however if PROS, in this verse, shouldn't be understood as
"in accordance with" or something similar (BAGD, s.v. PROS, III,5,d).  Luke
20:19 could be understood as Greg Jordan suggests (BAGD has it that way).
 Nevertheless, many render it "against" here.  Cf. the _Twentieth Century New
Testament_ which translates, "...that it was at them that he had aimed this

     If it were the case in Jn. 1:1 that we should understand, "The message
was concerning God," most probably we should expect to find a verb of
speaking in stead of one of being.  All the examples given in BAGD (s.v.
PROS, section III,5,a) where both Mat. 19:8 and and Lk. 20:19 are found, have
verbs of speaking except for Acts 24:16 (which doesn't really correspond to
what we're talking about in Jn. 1:1) and Mat. 19:8.  On the latter, however,
see the the parallel in Mk. 10:5 which supplies a verb of speaking.  In
short, if Jn. 1:1 were to be taken as Greg Jordan suggests, its translation
as such would constitute a rarity for the type of construction we have.

David L. Moore