b-greek-digest V1 #671

b-greek-digest            Wednesday, 19 April 1995      Volume 01 : Number 671

In this issue:

        Greek Text accentuation filter
        Re: Key Synoptic Problem Texts 
        Re: Erasmus' text 
        Re: Key Synoptic Problem Texts 
        Jn 15.2
        Re: Jn 15.2
        1 Cor 15:29


From: David John Marotta <djm5g@virginia.edu>
Date: 18 Apr 95 08:46:31 EDT
Subject: Greek Text accentuation filter

David John Marotta, Medical Center Computing, Stacey Hall
Univ of Virginia (804) 982-3718 wrk INTERNET: djm5g@virginia.edu
Box 512 Med Cntr (804) 924-5261 msg  PRODIGY: KCMR45A
C'ville VA 22908 (804) 296-7209 fax   IBM US: usuvarg8
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From: Chrisogelos George <geo@prometheus.hol.gr>
Message-Id: <199504151309.PAA05373@prometheus.hol.gr>
To: djm5g@virginia.edu
Subject: Greek Text accentuation filter

   | Computer based conversion of Greek ASCII single-accent text    |
   | to Greek multi-accent one in various formats (MAC-WIN-DOS).    |

Since 1992 we have developed the software named "TONISMOS", which
converts an ASCII single - accent Greek file, to an ASCII multi - accent
Greek one. The single - accent Greek writing is valid since 1981, the
multi - accent one has been used for more than 1100 years. This program
(software) works as the connecting link between the new way of Greek
writing and the old one, with which millions of pages have been written
and some are still writing.

Is unique and has been distinguished as an innovation, from the Greek
Organization for the Small and Medium Enterprises (EOMMEX).
It is used by the Greek Parliament and many professionals in publish market,
from private schools, culture Institutions etc.

We believe that this tool could be very useful to the Institutions -
Universities which are occupied with the study of Greek culture and language;
thus below we explain  the general idea and the operation of this Program:

The conversion is more than 99,7% correct for modern Greek(demotic) and more
than 99% correct for purified Greek; it is succeeded on an ASCII
level, by corresponding the following ASCII characters to the Greek
accent symbols, which are placed in certain positions before the Greek
            |   *     smooth breathing (PSILI)           |
            |   ^     rough breathing (DASEIA)           |
            |   @     acute accent (OXEIA)               |
            |   |     grave accent  (VAREIA)             |
            |   ~     circumflex accent (PERISPOMENI)    |
            |   $     iota subscript (HYPOGEGRAMMENI)    |

The conversion is based on the purified Greek language Grammar
(katharevousa A. Jarjanou ) and also on the modern Greek language
Grammar (demotic). Thus, using an option, a conversion of an ASCII -
single - accent Greek file can be achieved, whether this file is an old
or a modern single - accent Greek document.

- -----------------------------
The following accents are placed before vowels, rough - accent is also placed
before the Greek "r".

          *@$   for smooth - acute - w/iota
          *|$   for smooth - grave - w/iota
          ^@$   for rough - acute - w/iota
          ^|$   for rough - grave - w/iota
          *~$   for smooth - circumflex - w/iota
          ^~$   for rough - circumflex - w/iota

                *@    for smooth - acute
                *|      for smooth - grave
                ^@   for rough - acute
                ^|     for rough - grave
                *~    smooth - circumflex
                ^~    rough - circumflex

                *$    smooth - w/iota
                ^$    rough - w/iota
                @$    acute - w/iota
                |$    grave - w/iota
                ~$    circumflex - w/iota

                *     smooth breathing (PSILI)
                ^     rough breathing (DASEIA)
                @     acute accent (OXEIA)
                |     grave accent  (VAREIA)
                ~     circumflex accent (PERISPOMENI)
                $     iota subscript (HYPOGEGRAMMENI)

- --------
There are various filters which translate the multi - accent created ASCII
file to the multi - accent format of many desktop Publishing Programs
and Word Processors for IBM Compatible & Macintosh computers.
Such as :
Macintosh, WordPerfect (DOS Version 5.1),  WordPerfect (Windows Version),
Word 2.0 - 6.0, 3B2 Desktop Publishing, Grafeas, Chiwriter, Quadset Polytonic,
Pagemaker and all the programs running under windows which use the Greek
multi - accent True Type fonts of Magenta (MgPolOptima, MgnewTimes
etc...). We can provide the Greek multi-accent fonts also.

- --------
The Software "TONISMOS", uses modern technologies (computer, software)
to publish multi - accent Greek documents, using the nowadays single -
accent way of writing.

The user (publisher, author), needs not to know the complicated multi -
accent Greek Grammar; the software "TONISMOS", is doing the conversion
for him; in spite of that, he can use already written resources for
conversion and publish them into the multi - accent Greeks.

Reduction of the time required for electronic publishing; and reduction
of cost. Because is easier and quicker to write in the single - accent
Greek language.

Compatibility with all the electronic publishing machines.
Because of the ASCII multi - accent output,  the multi -accent file
can be imported to every machine which is able to read ASCII files.
Filters have been developed so that various formats can be supported
(True-Type, ATM, DOS multi-accent characters).

Hardware Requirements
- ---------------------
IBM Compatible Personal Computer, with 640 Kb RAM, 537 Kb
RAM free for the software to run in DOS environment or in a Ms-DOS
Window, plus 1,3 Mbytes disk space for program installation.

Conversion Speed:
- -----------------
On a 486dx - 66Mhz Computer, on a hard-disk 10 msec, a 100.000 Kbytes
single-accent ASCII Greek file, written in the purified Greek language
(katharevousa), is converted in a multi -accent ASCII one in 5 min.

- --------------------------------
A separate program is provided which can print and show on the screen the
multi - accent file using the multi -accent vowels. Through this, using a
function key, we can have access to the multi - accent ASCII file.
This part is not necessary as the view of the file is achieved through
the various word-processors.

- ---
The price of the software "TONISMOS", including the converter, the filters,
and the view utility, plus the mailing of all the upgrades during a year,
is 1.275 US$. We can also supply you with 3 multi - accent (polytonic)
Greek True Type and ATM fonts, for Windows, including a driver for
multi-accent Greek writing in the price of 272 US$.
The price includes the cost of the mail.

Calymnou 16,
172 37 Daphne,
Tel: +30 (01) 92.51.154
e-mail : geo@prometheus.hol.gr

PS : Please send this information file to anyone which would be interested in,
through e-mail.


From: "The Rev. David R. Graham" <merovin@halcyon.com>
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 95 09:44:02 PDT
Subject: Re: Key Synoptic Problem Texts 

The Synoptic source hypotheses come in and out of vogue in roughly ten year 
cycles.  Same as scientific hypotheses.  Mostly their acceptance/rejection 
patterns are driven by each generation's need for career hooks.

This phenomenon will continue so long as the central issue is not brought to 
closure, namely, who were [at least] the final redactors and, most 
importantly, what was their intent.

All the best,

- -------------------------------------
The Rev. David R. Graham
Adwaitha Hermitage
Professor of Philosophy
Sri Sathya Sai Institute of Higher Learning

E-mail: merovin@halcyon.com
Date: 04/06/95
Time: 13:41:10
- -------------------------------------


From: Orthopodeo@aol.com
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 14:38:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Erasmus' text 

> The Greek text upon which the original KJV was based was Erasmus' Greek

<Actually the third edition of Erasmus was also revised by Stephanus (Robert
Estiene) and Beza.  These revisions brought the Erasmas' texts closer to the
Latin Vulgate, such as the famous passage introducing the Trinity in 1 John

Greetings, sir!  I've enjoyed your work on syntax very much.

Just a note: Erasmus inserted the Comma in the third edition of his text,
hence its appearance in Stephanus and Beza as well.  I spent a great deal of
time on Erasmus and the TR in _The King James Only Controversy_, since I feel
the means by which the TR was constructed provide a glowing example of the
double standards of the KJV Only position, even that adopted by the less
radical proponents.

James White


From: Yirah@aol.com
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 18:28:58 -0400
Subject: Re: Key Synoptic Problem Texts 

I don't have a list of so-called "synoptic problem texts" handy. But in
dealing with this issue don't overlook the work of Eta Linneman (last I knew,
she has two books out on the market dealing with and this "problem").



From: Larry Swain <lswain@wln.com>
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 16:00:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Jn 15.2

Greetings all.  I wanted to test the waters of the group.  I heard an 
interpretation of Jn 15.2 the other day that got me thinking.  PAN KLHMA EN
EMOI MH PHERON KARPON AIREI AUTO.  This person understood airw in the 
sense of "raising up" rather than removing.  Hence, the gardener does not 
remove the unproductive branches but rather puts supports under them so 
that they can produce.  

So I did a little checking on the uses of aipw.  It seems to me that aipw 
includes movement in almost all the instances I saw it in.  Hence, 
hoisting sails, picking up bread pieces, removing some object.  I didn't 
see a stationary use in the sense of "supporting" or "propping" something 
or someone.  So if anyone has access to TLG who can find such a reference 
or would care to expand on this for me, I would be interested.

Obviously I am agin it.  Partially on the grounds that I have just stated 
regarding what I have found on the use of aipw.  Also, it makes less 
sense of the passage, in verse 6 the reference to those branches not 
bearing fruit gathered up and tossed on the fire.  And finally are the 
prophets:  frequently the prophets talk of Israel as a vine or tree which 
the Lord prunes, or cuts off, with a stump remaining.  This seems to be 
background for this parable.  So for those reasons I think this 
interpretation is not on target.  But I always reserve the right to be 
corrected.  Thanks all.

Larry Swain
Parmly Billings Library


From: Ken Penner <kpenner@unixg.ubc.ca>
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 18:24:23 -0700
Subject: Re: Jn 15.2

At 04:00 PM 4/18/95, Larry Swain wrote:

>Greetings all.  I wanted to test the waters of the group.  I heard an 
>interpretation of Jn 15.2 the other day that got me thinking.  PAN KLHMA EN
>EMOI MH PHERON KARPON AIREI AUTO.  This person understood airw in the 
>sense of "raising up" rather than removing.  Hence, the gardener does not 
>remove the unproductive branches but rather puts supports under them so 
>that they can produce.  

I also have recently heard this interpretation. The way I remember it, a certain interpreter was having difficulty with the implication that works (bearing fruit) was required for acceptance before God. Then, while travelling in Israel, he noticed grape vines being propped up. He asked about this practice and was told that this was done to get the vines to produce more fruit. He was then struck with the understanding that AIREI meant "raises" and the HINA clause described the purpose of both the raising and the pruning: to produce more fruit. So God does what is appropriate for each "branch" to be more productive.

I was skeptical (for some reason, I tend to be skeptical of any new interpretation that is based on a trip to the "Holy Land" ;-). But I was not in a position to refute it right then. After all, we HAD been taught to gloss AIRW as "raise".

>I didn't 
>see a stationary use in the sense of "supporting" or "propping" something 
>or someone.  

The New Testament usage of AIRW is mainly in the sense of "take away", and to a lesser extent, "pick up (in preparation for moving it away)" and "carry". The only exception are:
"picking up" the fish to get the coin (Mt 17:27)
"lifting" one's voice (Lu 17:13, Acts 4:24)
"carrying" others' souls(?) (John 10:24)
"raising" one's body parts to heaven (John 11:41, Revelation 10:5)

Usage in John is pretty much the same as in the other NT authors.

John 11:41 and Revelation 10:5 seem to have the only NT examples of AIRW as "raise": Jesus "raised" his eyes; the angel "raised" his right hand to heaven.

Mind you, I'm working only from the NT contexts. There might be some LXX background I'm not aware of. If someone knows more, I'd like to hear it.

>Obviously I am agin it.  Partially on the grounds that I have just stated 
>regarding what I have found on the use of aipw.

I would consider it a shaky interpretation at best. I don't recommend basing theology on it, either way.
Ken Penner
Regent College


From: Guy Marquardt <guy.marquardt@mandic.ax.apc.org>
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 95 22:17:00 -0300
Subject: 1 Cor 15:29


I realize this is somewhat of an old question, but I'm at a bit of a 
loss.  I recently moved down to Sao Paulo, Brazil, for mission work, and 
my entire theological library is somewhere in transit from the States yet.

Anyway, my question has to do with 1 Corinthians 15:29.  What does Paul 
mean by the expression _hoi baptizomenoi huper twn nekrwn_ ... 
_baptizontai huper autwn_?

What are the major existing theories?  I remember a few vague ideas but 
with little detail.

Thanks for your help.

- -- Guy Marquardt


End of b-greek-digest V1 #671


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