b-greek-digest V1 #672

b-greek-digest            Wednesday, 19 April 1995      Volume 01 : Number 672

In this issue:

        Re: Jn 15.2
        Re: Key Synoptic Problem Texts
        Classics Resources: more than you asked for
        Re: Key Synoptic Problem Texts
        Re: Key Synoptic Problem Texts
        Re: Key Synoptic Problem Texts
        Kurios -- Definitions
        Heptad - Definition?
        Re: Kurios -- Definitions
        Re: Kurios -- Definitions


From: George Baloglou <baloglou@oswego.oswego.edu>
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 01:48:47 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Jn 15.2

On Tue, 18 Apr 1995, Larry Swain wrote:

> Greetings all.  I wanted to test the waters of the group.  I heard an 
> interpretation of Jn 15.2 the other day that got me thinking.  PAN KLHMA EN
> EMOI MH PHERON KARPON AIREI AUTO.  This person understood airw in the 
> sense of "raising up" rather than removing.  Hence, the gardener does not 
> remove the unproductive branches but rather puts supports under them so 
> that they can produce.  
> [rest deleted]

Motivated both by this query and the only so far response to it by ??
(sorry, I cannot recall his name after I accidentally erased his message),
I opt for an alternative, sort of middle-of-the-road interpretation as
follows: a vine/branch/tree that produces no fruit is not burdened by 
extra weight, therefore it is likely to reach higher; metaphorically
speaking, "shallow characters tend to stand out" (unfortunately ...).

I notice at this point modern Greek "EPAIROMAI" = "brag", but I do not
know that verb's "orbit" in (modern) Greek. 

George Baloglou

"Memory of my people, your name is Pindos, your name is Athos" ("AXION ESTI")



From: Doug Weatherston <DWEAT@milan.mi.springarbor.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 08:30:58 EDTEST
Subject: Re: Key Synoptic Problem Texts

On Tue, 18 Apr 1995 
William (Yirah@aol.com) wrote:

>I don't have a list of so-called "synoptic problem texts" handy. But
>in dealing with this issue don't overlook the work of Eta Linneman
>(last I knew, she has two books out on the market dealing with 
>this "problem"). 

A little bibliographic info on Linneman's books:

Is There a Synoptic Problem? (Grand Rapids, Baker Book House) $10.99
Historical Criticism of the Bible (Baker Book House)  $9.99

These are fairly recent books and should be available in Christian 
book stores.  If stores don't have them in stock, they can get them 
from their major distributor, Spring Arbor : - )

Doug Weatherston
Book Buyer (professionally, I mean)


From: Carl W Conrad <cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu>
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 08:22:25 -0500 (GMT-0500)
Subject: Classics Resources: more than you asked for

Some time B.E. (Before Easter) I promised a list of online discussion=20
lists in Classics; now that I've been "dunned" for it by Edgar Krentz,=20
here it is. In fact, I have prefaced to the brief descriptions of the=20
lists and how to subscribe to them a copy of the "home page" of the main=20
Classics web site, which is also accessible by gopher at the URL=20
indicated. This home page will give you a sense of the vast resources=20
that are available in the general area of ancient Mediterranean=20
antiquity, and you can get to most of these resources directly through=20
the Michigan web or gopher site. With Mosaic or a compatible WWW client=20
that does color graphics, you'll also have access to a wealth of photos, et=

cited material:
- --------------------------------------------
Classics resources by WWW:
What follows below is the home page of the major web site for all
Classics resources, reachable at:


The same resources are reachable by gopher at:


The home page itself is then followed by information on several=20
of the Discussion Lists that concern themselves with ancient
Mediterranean antiquity (the only lists I have deliberately=20
excluded, assuming they are known to this list, are b-greek=20
and b-hebrew!).

rome.classics.lsa.umich.edu Home Page
- ---------------------------------------------------------
   (Last modified 3/17/95: Additions to the Search Related Databases
   under Texts, Projects, etc...
   3/16/95: I have just returned from France and I am catching up on
   links sent to me while I was away. Resend if I've missed yours.
   Previous modifications.)
   This server collects links to known internet resources of interest
   classicists and Mediterranean archaeologists. Entries followed by
   [CMA] come from this server. Please send notices of other resources
   Sebastian Heath <sfsh@umich.edu>. Also, if you know or suspect that
   any of the current references are out of date, please e-mail the
   address. Thank you.
   To search the titles of resources listed in this document, enter a
   keyword or Perl regular expression: ____________________ ______
Table of Contents

   Texts, Projects, Journals, Bibliographies, Etc.
   Exhibits, Web Documents and Sources of Images
   Field Projects
   Related Courses, Course Material and Departmental Descriptions
   Atlases and Geographic Information
   News Groups, Mail Lists and FAQs
   Other Gophers, FTP Servers, and Telnet Sessions by Topic
   Loosely Related Material
   Other World Wide Web Servers
Texts, Projects, Journals, Bibliographies, Etc.

     * ABZU Near Eastern resources on the internet.
     * American Classical League.
     * American Philological Association.
     * Cassiodorus An e-postprint by James O'Donnell.
     * Catalogs:
          + Combined AAUP Online Catalog/Bookstore.
          + Catalogs of the University Museum, University of
            and the Peabody Museum, Harvard University.
     * Center for Computer Analysis of Texts
     * Classical Association of Canada/Soci=E9t=E9 canadienne des =E9tudes
       anciennes. Also at this server: E-mail addresses of Canadian
     * CURIA Irish Manuscript Project
     * Databases, Projects and other resources by Gopher
     * De Re Militari Web Page.
     * Didaskalia.
     * Dissertation Abstracts from UMI.
     * Edinburgh Ras Shamra Project WWW server for Ugaritic studies.
     * FRANTIQ: Fichier de Recherche de l'Antiquit=E9.
     * The Getty Art History Information Program.
     * Guide to Early Christian Literature on the Internet
     * International Council of Monuments and Sites. Includes Internet
       Resource Guide for Heritage Conservation.
     * Journals by Gopher. Includes the Bryn Mawr Reviews, Electronic
       Antiquity, Scholia Reviews, TOCS-IN and others.
     * Labyrinth: Medieval Studies Infoserver. Relevant bibliographies
       and much other material can be found here.
     * The Mount Athos Greek Manuscripts Catalog: The Philotheou
       Monastery Project. From Bates College.
     * National Junior Classical League Home Page.
     * Nestor by FTP. From Indiana.
     * Old World Archaeology Newsletter.
     * On Line Archaeology. An electronic journal of archaeological
       theory from Southampton University.
     * Orthodox Reading Page.
     * Papyrology Home Page.
     * The Perseus Project.
     * Search related databases. [CMA]
     * Shifting Frontiers in Late Antiquity.
     * Simple list of Roman Emperors with map. [CMA]
     * Tables of Contents of Journals of Interest to Classicists
     * The Tech Classics Archive Good collection of translations.
     * Texts by Gopher
     * Thesaurus Linguae Graecae Gopher Server.
     * TITUS: Thesaurus Indogermanischer Text - und Sprachmaterialien.
     * University of Michigan Papyrus Digitization Project.
     * University of Saarland Internet Resources for Roman Law in
       German, English.
     * V& F: sistema interattivo per l'analisi dei testi greci e
     * World Archaeological Congress.
Exhibits, Web Documents and Sources of Images

   Extended presentations of discrete topics and image archives are
   likely to be listed here.
     * Alexandria: shining pearl of the Mediterranean.
     * ArchNet. Access to archaeological resources on the internet.
       the University of Connecticut, Storrs.
     * Barbarians on the Greek Periphery? Origins of Celtic Art.
     * Coptic Orthodox Church of Egypt. From Boston University.
     * Egeria and the Fourth Century Liturgy of Jerusalem.
     * Egyptology Resources.
     * Exhibits by Gopher
     * Gods on File. A web site for mythology.
     * Histoire de l'art.
     * History of Sardinia.
     * Images for Art History at the Australian National University.
          + From ANU
          + Form based query into Mediterranean basin database from
          + From NCSA
     * Library of Congress Vatican Exhibit
     * Mythology in Western Art.
     * Pompeii Forum Project
     * Scrolls from the Dead Sea: The Ancient Library of Qumran and
       Modern Scholarship
     * Servers for the Levant. From Norway. Try the historical images.
     * The "Palace" of Diocletian at Split. From the EXPO at UNC.
     * Turkish Home Page.
     * Windows on Italy. A brief history of Italy.
     * World Art Treasures.
     * Worlds of Late Antiquity.
     * The World of the Vikings: A project led by the National Museum
       Denmark and The York Archaeological Trust
Field Projects

   This section includes preliminary reports from field projects and a
   pointer to the Cornell Archaeological Fieldwork Server. The
   of Classical Studies at the University of Michigan is not
   for the content of these reports.
     * Archaeological Fieldwork Server. From Cornell.
     * Une grotte orn=E9e pal=E9olithique en France (Ard=E8che)
     * Leptiminus Archaeological Project, Tunisia [CMA]
     * Pylos Regional Archaeological Project, Greece [CMA]
     * Ancient Shikhin, Israel
     * The Newstead Research Project
     * University of Cambridge Theban Mission: 1992, 1993, 1994.
     * University of Michigan/University of Asiut Project in the
       Desert of Egypt. [CMA]
     * University of South Florida Excavations at Sepphoris, Israel:
       1993, 1994, the glass from Sepphoris.
     * The Oriental Institute has made available reports on its
Related Courses, Course Material and Departmental Descriptions

   The courses listed here are making use of the internet to
   material. They may only be available for the current semester (Fall
     * New Tools for Teaching by James J. O'Donnell. This is a general
       introduction to the topic written by a Classicist.
     * Aegean Prehistory: Section 11 The First Palaces of the Aegean
       Jeremy Rutter. [CMA]
     * Augstine Seminar at the University of Pennsylvania
     * Departmental Descriptions by Gopher
     * Katholieke Universiteit Leuven, Eastern Meditterranean
     * Colby College, Archaeology.=20
     * College of the Holy Cross.
     * Florida State University.
     * Oxford University.
     * University of Kentucky.
     * University of Wales Swansea.
     * University Departments and Programs. From ArchNet

     * Cagliari (Sardinia) Archaeological Museum.
     * David and Alfred Smart Museum of Art, Univeristy of Chicago.
       Catalog has pointers to Mediterranean material.
     * Institute of Egyptian Art and Archaeology, University of
     * Kelsey Museum of Archaeology, University of Michigan.
     * Krannert Art Museum, University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign:
       Home Page, Old World Antiquities, Medieval and Near Eastern.
     * Louvre, Paris: Le WebLouvre.
     * Louvre, Paris: Home Page, Oriental Galleries, Egyptian
       Greek, Roman, and Etruscan Galleries.
     * Michael C. Carlos Museum, Emory University. Ancient Egypt,
       Near East, Greece and Rome.
     * The Oriental Institute
     * University Museum, University of Pennsylvania
     * Virtual Library entry for museums.
Atlases and Geographic Information

     * Global Images from GRASS GIS. There are some nice images of the
       Mediterranean writ-large here.
     * Mediterranean Oceanic Database.
     * Perseus Atlas Project from Holy Cross.
     * Xerox PARC Map Viewer set to Mediterranean
          + Some Roman imperial capitals: Rome, Constantinople, Milan,
            Nicomedia, Trier.
     * Some Spatially Referenced Data by Gopher
News Groups, Mail Lists and FAQs

   In order to read the news groups listed here, your Web client must
   set to access an NNTP server.
     * FAQ: Network resources of interest to anthropologists.
     * sci.archaeology.
     * sci.classics.
     * Descriptions of Mail Lists by Gopher.
Other Gophers, FTP Servers, and Telnet Sessions by Topic

     * All Resources for Classics and Mediterranean Archaeology by
     * Catalogs of Academic Presses
     * Teaching Materials
Loosely Related Material

   Under this heading will be included resources that are only
   or indirectly related to classics or Mediterranean archaeology. The
   selection is likely to change over time. If you really like
   add it to your hotlist.
     * Cesarean Section -- A Brief History. From the National Library
     * GIS Related Resources. From Holy Cross.
     * Palynology & palaeoclimatology. From the Australian National
     * Rec.Travel Library. Lists discount travel agents and other
Other World Wide Web Servers

     * CERN Home Page
     * Expo: Point of departure for all Library of Congress Exhibits
     * Information by Subject
     * NCSA Home Page
     * Starting Points for Internet Exploration
     * The Whole Internet Catalog. Humanities Section
    This server is maintained on a workstation provided by the
    of Classical Studies, University of Michigan. Comments and
    references to other sources are welcome and should be sent to
    Sebastian Heath, Department of Classical Studies, University of
    Michigan, sfsh@umich.edu.
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end of cited material

Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University
One Brookings Drive, St. Louis, MO 63130, USA
(314) 935-4018
cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu  OR cwc@oui.com


From: Stephen Carlson <scc@reston.icl.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 95 11:25:36 EDT
Subject: Re: Key Synoptic Problem Texts

Phillip Long wrote:
> On Mon, 17 Apr 1995, Carl W Conrad wrote:
> > I wonder if Mr. Long will tell us exactly WHY he is interested in hearing 
> > which passages are the most difficult to harmonize. Is it, as Stephen 
> > Carlson seems to surmise, the passages that are most difficult for the 
> > two-source hypothesis to work out? Sheer curiosity? 
> No, I'm working on a paper on the Synoptic problem, and need to narrow 
> the mass of problem passages down to the most important ones, or at least 
> the most contraversial ones.
> The use of Q and two/four source hypothesis is a part of the problem, and 
> certainly something that I need to deal with.

There are also passages can falsify the Farmer-Griesbach Two Gospel
Hypothesis (Mk being a conflation/condensation of Mt and Lk).  The
explanation for Mark's conflation is that Mark made a single pass
through the rolls of Mt and Lk.  Since Mt and Lk are occasionally out
of sequence with respect to each other on Markan parallels, we should
expect Mark to more closely the wording of the in-sequence source.
I haven't made an investigation of Mark's wording, but the following
twenty or so passages are key in testing the 2GH's prediction:

Case I.  Matthew out of sequence relative to Mark-Luke

A.  Healing of Simon's Mother-in-Law Mk 1:29-31=Lk 4:38-39 (cf. Mt 8:14-15)
    Healings and Exorcisms           Mk 1:32-34=Lk 4:40-41 (cf. Mt 8:16-17)
    Withdrawal and Preaching         Mk 1:35-39=Lk 4:42-44 (cf. Mt 4:23-25)
    Healing of a Leper               Mk 1:40-45=Lk 5:12-16 (cf. Mt 8: 1- 4)
    [ It's hard to determine which set of passages here is either in or
    out of sequence. ]
B.  Appointment of the Twelve        Mk 3:13-19=Lk 6:12-16 (cf. Mt10: 1- 4)
C.  The Lamp                         Mk 4:21-23=Lk 8:16-17 (cf. Mt 5: 5)
    Measure for Measure & more       Mk 4:24-25=Lk 8:18    (cf. Mt 7: 2, 13:2)
D.  The Stilling of the Storm        Mk 4:35-41=Lk 8:22-25 (cf. Mt 8:23-27)
    Gerasene                         Mk 5: 1-20=Lk 8:26-39 (cf. Mt 8:28-34)
    Jairus' Daughter & Woman's Faith Mk 5:21-33=Lk 8:40-56 (cf. Mt 9:18-26)
E.  Mission of the Twelve            Mk 6: 7-13=Lk 9: 1- 6 (cf. Mt10: 9-14)

Case II.  Luke out of sequence relative to Mark-Matthew

A.  Call of Simon and Andrew         Mk 1:16-18=Mt 4:18-20 (cf. Lk 5: 1- 3)
    Call of James and John           Mk 1:19-20=Mt 4:21-22 (cf. Lk 5: 4-11)
B.  Jesus' Family                    Mk 3:20-22=Mt12:24    (cf. Lk11:15)
    Scribes Accusing Jesus           Mk 3:23-30=Mt12:25-32 (cf. Lk11:17-21+)
C.  The Mustard Seed                 Mk 4:30-32=Mt13:31-32 (cf. Lk13:18-19)
D.  Rejection at Nazareth            Mk 6: 1- 6=Mt13:53-58 (cf. Lk 4:16-30)
E.  Pharisees Ask for a Sign         Mk 8:11-13=Mt16: 1- 4 (cf. Lk11:29-32)
F.  On Temptations                   Mk 9:42-50=Mt18: 6-10 (cf. Lk17: 1- 4)
G.  Ten Indignant Disciples          Mk10:41-45-Mt20:24-28 (cf. Lk22:24-27)
H.  The Greatest Commandment         Mk12:28-34=Mt22:24-40 (cf. Lk10:25-29)
I.  Woman Annoints Jesus             Mk14: 3- 9=Mt26: 6-13 (cf. Lk 7:36-50)

Stephen Carlson
- -- 
Stephen Carlson     :  Poetry speaks of aspirations,  : ICL, Inc.
scc@reston.icl.com  :  and songs chant the words.     : 11490 Commerce Park Dr.
(703) 648-3330      :                 Shujing 2:35    : Reston, VA  22091   USA


From: Kenneth Litwak <kenneth@sybase.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 95 09:29:36 PDT
Subject: Re: Key Synoptic Problem Texts

- -Lines: 5
> I don't have a list of so-called "synoptic problem texts" handy. But in
> dealing with this issue don't overlook the work of Eta Linneman (last I knew,
> she has two books out on the market dealing with and this "problem").
> William

   The relevant title, I believe, is _Is There A Synoptic Problem?_, and
while we're on the subject, let me mention my favorite:  
John Wenham, _Redating Matthew, Mark and Luke_.  It's really about
the Synoptic problem and proposes a different solution from the usual
theories, which I find more satisfying.  One passage, if you are simply
looking for passages that point to some sort of "problem", are the
Resurrection narratives:  Matt 28; Luke 24 and Mk 16:1-who knows what?.

Ken Litwak
Emeryville, CA


From: Carl W Conrad <cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu>
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 11:30:47 -0500 (GMT-0500)
Subject: Re: Key Synoptic Problem Texts

Thanks for evening out the input into this matter. The citation of the 
Linnemann books had the appearance of weighting this discussion (more a 
posting of bulletins) on one side of the major divide between two-source 
hypothesis and Farmer-Griesbach hypothesis. I've read one of the 
Linnemann books and it does appear to me to shed more heat than light on 
the question.

Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University
One Brookings Drive, St. Louis, MO 63130, USA
(314) 935-4018
cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu  OR cwc@oui.com


From: usa@hntp2.hinet.net
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 01:36:14 +0800 (CST)
Subject: Kurios -- Definitions

I'm looking for an answer to this question, to whomever may offer
some information, It would be greatly appreciated...

I would like to know the definition for the following words:
 	1) Kurios (Captilized "K")
        2) kurios (Not Capitilized "k")

Strong's (#2692) gives various definitions such as:
	a) Mr.
	b) God
	c) Lord
	d) master
	e) Sir

How are we to know which definition applies, and when?

I would like to specifically know the definition of the word
kurios (Strong's #2962), as used in:

	1) Mark 13:35
	2) John 20:28
	3) Romans 10:9

Thanks to all!
God Bless,
Brian McElroy


From: usa@hntp2.hinet.net
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 01:39:49 +0800 (CST)
Subject: Heptad - Definition?

To any who may have an answer to this question...

I have come across the word "Heptad" in my studies of the book
of Daniel.  One "Heptad" is described as being one of Daniel's
70 weeks.  Please can anyone tell me the origin of this word
(it sounds Greek to me) and the exact meaning of this word?

Thanks to all,
God Bless
Brian McElroy


From: Carl W Conrad <cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu>
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 13:09:25 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: Kurios -- Definitions

On Thu, 20 Apr 1995 usa@hntp2.hinet.net wrote:

> I'm looking for an answer to this question, to whomever may offer
> some information, It would be greatly appreciated...
> I would like to know the definition for the following words:
>  	1) Kurios (Captilized "K")
>         2) kurios (Not Capitilized "k")
> Strong's (#2692) gives various definitions such as:
> 	a) Mr.
> 	b) God
> 	c) Lord
> 	d) master
> 	e) Sir
> How are we to know which definition applies, and when?
> I would like to specifically know the definition of the word
> kurios (Strong's #2962), as used in:
> 	1) Mark 13:35
> 	2) John 20:28
> 	3) Romans 10:9

Well, for one thing, capitalization is a later invention than the NT 
texts, so it is the editors who have supplied that interpretative help 
(or hindrance?) for the issue.

The problem with the word KYRIOS is precisely that of the German word 
HERR or the French word SIEUR: they refer to one who holds authority, and 
there are degrees of authority that the person to whom the word refers 
may hold. So German can speak of "der Herr" in reference to God--or may 
just as well, in the right context, mean "the gentleman." 

In Hellenistic Judaism KYRIOS was a translation for Hebrew ADONAI, 
"Lord," which was spoken instead of "Yahweh" when one reads the Hebrew 
text and comes to the tetragram, YHWH. Accordingly, in the LXX and 
sometimes in the LXX Kyrios does mean "God." MOST of the NT usages, 
however, are as a TITLE for the risen Jesus, "the Lord Jesus Christ," 
etc., etc.

Specifically, in Mark 13:35 HO KYRIOS THS OIKIAS means the "master" of 
the household, the one who holds authority over all members of the 
household; but of course the parable is talking about the parousia of 
Jesus and so the word has the added sense of "Lord" although its surface 
meaning is as indicated.

In John 20:28 Thomas greets Jesus as "My Lord and my God." There is no 
question here that we have an instance of "the Lord Jesus Christ." In 
fact, my own sense is that for John, the phrase IDEIN TON KYRION is 
equivalent to "experience the epiphany of the risen Lord."

In Romans 10:9 KYRION IHSOUN again has reference to the risen Jesus, "the 
Lord Jesus Christ."

There is a lot more to say on these matters, and I expect others will 
flesh in this little sketch (and correct it, of course, from their own 
viewpoints), but this is for starters. 

Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University
One Brookings Drive, St. Louis, MO 63130, USA
(314) 935-4018
cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu  OR cwc@oui.com


From: "Larry W. Hurtado" <hurtado@cc.umanitoba.ca>
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 13:28:38 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: Kurios -- Definitions

yOn Thu, 20 Apr 1995 usa@hntp2.hinet.net wrote:

> I'm looking for an answer to this question, to whomever may offer
> some information, It would be greatly appreciated...
> I would like to know the definition for the following words:
>         1) Kurios (Captilized "K")
>         2) kurios (Not Capitilized "k")

An accessible discussion of this is available in the following:
H. Bietenhard, "Lord," in _New International Dictionary of New Testament 
Theology_, ed. Colin Brown, vol. 2, pp. 508-20 (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 

Larry Hurtado, Religion, Univ. of Manitoba 


End of b-greek-digest V1 #672


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