τοῦ παρόντος είς ὑμᾶς Col 1:6

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André-Philippe Therrien
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τοῦ παρόντος είς ὑμᾶς Col 1:6

Post by André-Philippe Therrien » August 8th, 2019, 9:45 pm

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I'm new here. I don't know if this is the right forum for this question but here it goes.

In Colossians 1:6, I had always read the Greek phrase τοῦ παρόντος εἰς ὑμᾶς as meaning something along the lines of “which is present with you”. Today I realized that virtually no translation takes it this way, they all read “that has come to you” which seems to me to miss the force of the Greek word. Lexicons gloss πάρειμι + εἰς as “having arrived at” or “to come to”. I realize the answer to this question requires lots of considering different instances of this construction in Koine.

Any thoughts? Am I self-deceivedly over-thinking this in English?

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Barry Hofstetter
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Re: τοῦ παρόντος είς ὑμᾶς Col 1:6

Post by Barry Hofstetter » August 9th, 2019, 7:25 am

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BDAG wrote:The pres. ‘be here’ can take on the perf. sense have come (B-D-F §322; Rob. 881; cp. 1 Macc 12:42 v.l., 45; 2 Macc 3:9; Jos., Ant. 3, 84 πάρεστι εἰς, Vi. 115; SIG 814, 4f [I A.D.]) τίς ἡ αἰτία διʼ ἣν πάρεστε; why have you come? Ac 10:21. οὗτοι καὶ ἐνθάδε πάρεισιν these men have come here too 17:6. πάρεστιν ἀπʼ ἀγροῦ has come from the country Lk 11:6 D.—Hv 5:3; Hs 7:1. On ἑταῖρε, ἐφʼ ὃ πάρει (Jos., Bell. 2, 615 John ἐφʼ ὃ παρῆν διεπράττετο) Mt 26:50 s. ὅς 1iβ and RBrown, Death of the Messiah ’94, II 1385–88. παρὼν ἤγειρεν αὐτούς he came and raised them from the dead IMg 9:3.—The impf. παρῆν he had come, or he came (Diod S 19, 59, 1 παρῆν=he came) Hs 9, 11, 8. Pl. παρῆσαν they had come, they came Lk 13:1 (w. ἐν in indication of time + ἀπαγγέλλειν Plut., Mor. 509c; cp. Diod S 17, 8, 2 and 20, 113, 1; with temporal indication without ἀπαγγέλλειν X., Cyr. 1, 2, 4); πρός τινα (Jos., Ant. 14, 451) Ac 12:20.
Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., & Bauer, W. (2000). A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature (3rd ed., p. 773). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.
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N.E. Barry Hofstetter
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Jack M. Barrack Hebrew Academy
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Jason Hare
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Re: τοῦ παρόντος είς ὑμᾶς Col 1:6

Post by Jason Hare » August 9th, 2019, 8:48 am

From LSJ:
παρεῖναι εἰς . . to have arrived at, ἐς κοῖτον Hdt.1.9; ἐς τὸν Ἰσθμὸν π. τινί Id.8.60. γ ; ἐς τὴν Λακεδαίμονα Th.6.88 ; εἰς τὴν ἐξέτασιν X.An.7.1.11 ; Ὀλυμπίαζε Th.3.8 : c. acc. loci, πάρεισι . . Αἰτναῖον πάγον E. Cyc.95, cf. 106, Ba.5 ; π. τινὶ ἐπὶ δεῖπνον Hdt. 1.118, cf. Ar.Av. 131 ; π. ἐπὶ τὸ στράτευμα X.An.7.1.35 ; π. πρὸς τὴν κρίσιν ib. 6.6.26 ; πρός τινα Id.Cyr.2.4.21 ; also π. ἐνταυθοῖ Pl.Ap.33d ; v. πάρειμι (εἶμι) IV. 2.
Since you acknowledge that this is a standard lexical definition of πάρειμι (παρ᾿-εἰμί) with εἰς (which is generally directional), I don't see what the problem might be here.

The whole point of growing is that you take in new things when exposed to them. In this case, it seems like you've taken in what you've seen - that πάρειμι doesn't have to be stationary.
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Barry Hofstetter
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Re: τοῦ παρόντος είς ὑμᾶς Col 1:6

Post by Barry Hofstetter » August 9th, 2019, 9:32 am

Jason Hare wrote:
August 9th, 2019, 8:48 am
From LSJ:
παρεῖναι εἰς . . to have arrived at, ἐς κοῖτον Hdt.1.9; ἐς τὸν Ἰσθμὸν π. τινί Id.8.60. γ ; ἐς τὴν Λακεδαίμονα Th.6.88 ; εἰς τὴν ἐξέτασιν X.An.7.1.11 ; Ὀλυμπίαζε Th.3.8 : c. acc. loci, πάρεισι . . Αἰτναῖον πάγον E. Cyc.95, cf. 106, Ba.5 ; π. τινὶ ἐπὶ δεῖπνον Hdt. 1.118, cf. Ar.Av. 131 ; π. ἐπὶ τὸ στράτευμα X.An.7.1.35 ; π. πρὸς τὴν κρίσιν ib. 6.6.26 ; πρός τινα Id.Cyr.2.4.21 ; also π. ἐνταυθοῖ Pl.Ap.33d ; v. πάρειμι (εἶμι) IV. 2.
Since you acknowledge that this is a standard lexical definition of πάρειμι (παρ᾿-εἰμί) with εἰς (which is generally directional), I don't see what the problem might be here.

The whole point of growing is that you take in new things when exposed to them. In this case, it seems like you've taken in what you've seen - that πάρειμι doesn't have to be stationary.
My initial thought was that it had conflated over time with πάρειμι (from εἶμι, Latin ibō, "I shall go"), but the sense is sufficiently different that I don't think that will work.
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N.E. Barry Hofstetter
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Jack M. Barrack Hebrew Academy
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