Mt 9:36 ERRIMMENOI

Carl W. Conrad cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Tue Jun 11 11:53:33 EDT 2002



Louw & Nida:

25.294 hRIPTOMAI: (a figurative extension of meaning of hRIPTWa 'to throw,'
15.217) to be or to become dejected, with a possible implication of loss of
hope - 'to be dejected, to be discouraged.' HSAN ESKULMENOI KAI ERRIMENOI
'they were harassed and dejected' Mt 9:36 (n23)

and n23 reads: "It is also possible to understand ERRIMENOI in Mt 9:36 as
meaning 'helpless.'"

This appears indeed to be an instance of figurative extension; I don't know
whether "cast down" or "downcast" is itself ultimately a translation from
the Greek or Hebrew, but it certainly does have a traditional sense in
English for dejection or helplessness, i.e. what (classical) Greek fairly
often calls APORIA. I'm reminded of Heidegger's existential category of
"Geworfenheit"--a sense, I believe, of having been randomly stationed in
one's place in existence without rhyme or reason. If your German is up to
Heidegger, you might look at this extract from _Sein und Zeit_, subtitled
"Verfallen und Geworfenheit":

	http://www.dalank.de/notabene/sz_35_38.html

AT Robertson ("Word Pictures") is helpful too, I think:

ERRIMENOI denotes men cast down and prostrate on the ground, whether from
drunkenness, Polyb. v. 48.2, or from mortal wounds" (Allen): This perfect
passive participle from hRIPTW, to throw down. The masses were in a state
of mental dejection.

At 8:56 AM -0400 6/11/02, richard smith wrote:
>mT 9:36 hOTI HSAN ESKULMENOI KAI ERRIMMENOI
>
>Carl had put forth a question about the meaning of words, specifically I
>think more about principles of semantic authority.  I tend to questions
>that probably move more toward translation issues than is generally
>allowed on this list, but my intent is not translation discussion. Only an
>understanding of the Greek text, including semantics.
>
>Gingrich, Shorter Lexicon of Greek NT, defines ERRIMMENOI as ìlying down.î
> My analytical lexicon by Harold Moulton indicates the passive of hRIPTW
>to mean ìto be dispersed, scattered.î
>
>The NRSV and the NIV both translate ìhelpless.î This seems to me to be an
>interpretative translation, if I understand the meanings as described in
>the lexicons.  By interpretative translation I mean a translation that
>suggests the subjective significance of a phrase rather than the phrase
>itself. (And no doubt, interpretative translating is often a necessary
>responsibility of the translator.)  The latter would in this instance read
>possibly, ìthe crowd was lying down.î   This more literal reading would
>let the reader determine the significance of the phrase, which might be
>perhaps that, because the crowd was lying down, therefore the crowd was
>tired, or perhaps therefore the crowd was helpless, or perhaps the crowd
>was helpless and therefore was lying down.
>
>Unfortunately, at least in my mind it is unfortunate if the word should
>not mean ìhelpless,î when the translation tells me the crowd was helpless,
>I think that is the word chosen by the writer of Matthew.  However, if it
>is not the word chosen by the writer, but rather by the translator, then,
>the translation is providing the interpretation rather than allowing me as
>an interpretive reader to develop my thoughts about the significance of
>the report that crowd was lying down, or was scattered. (I might think the
>crowd was tired, or hopeless, or purposeless, or leaderless. The Living
>Bible paraphrase conveys some of these possibilities.)
>
>Of course, this is a translation matter, and I am sure not fitting for
>this list discussion. Except perhaps as encouragement to continue the
>worthwhile struggle to learn Greek, whether by Dobson, or Mounce, or
>Summers, or MacNair, or Powers, or White, or Machen, or Wallace, or
>Brooks/Winbery, or Hewett, or any of the other valuable instructors.
>
>BTW, the KJV translates ìscattered abroad.î  It may be that the more
>modern translations are using a more accurately documented sense of the
>word in translating ìhelpless.î
>
>But, what of the meaning of ERRIMMENOI?  Does it mean ìhelplessî, ìlying
>downî, or ìscattered?î
>
>And what is the significance of the perfect participle in the periphrastic
>construction?  Does it in this verse render the pluperfect tense? Should
>the verse imply that the crowd had been harassed and helpless, but was no
>longer so, now in the presence of Jesus their shepherd?
>
>Perhaps, ìWhen he saw the crowds, he had compassion for them, because they
>had been troubled and scattered, as sheep not having a shepherd. Then He
>said to his disciples, ìThe harvest is great, but the workers few.î
>(Thinking of the many others who were still harassed and scattered, and
>then of the need for a mission to those many others, and then even
>further, thinking of the need for many more missions to the even many more
>others.)
>
>If the verb phrase should imply a pluperfect sense, that is not apparent
>in the translations and if the verb is actually overtranslated as
>ìhelpless,î then it may be that some of the force in the passage can be
>missed by the English reader. Or at least was missed by me.
>
>Another semantic question involves the translation of ìlostî from the
>perfect participle of APOLLUMI in verse 10:6. In my reading of the
>English, I understand the word  ìlostî to refer to those lost in sin.  But
>given that the word used seems more to mean ìdestroyed, perished, ruined,î
>my understanding is now more inclined to read the passage as the disciples
>going out to those who suffer from social, economic, and physical
>deprivations, the marginal of society (to borrow from some contemporary
>scholarship).
>
>And this seems more suitable to the context also. Is this a reasonable
>understanding of the sense of APOLWLOTA in this verse?
>
>Thank you,
>
>Richard Smith
>Chattanooga, TN
>
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-- 

Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)
Most months:: 1647 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu OR cwconrad at ioa.com
WWW: http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~cwconrad/



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