Luke 23:43 (meaning of PARADEISOS)
Carl W. Conrad
cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Thu Oct 3 13:07:49 EDT 2002
At 7:27 PM +0300 10/3/02, Iver Larsen wrote:
>Carl said:
>> While I have no way to disprove Iver's speculative account of meanings of
>> hO PARADEISOS in the GNT and especially in Lk 23:43, I have to express a
>> considerble measure of skepticism about the notion that there was a
>> distinct and "orthodox" or at least "standard" eschatological conception
>> prevalent withing first-century Judaism according to which hO PARADEISOS
>> (the Greek word standing for which Hebrew or Aramaic word?) indicates an
>> abode of the saved equivalent to "the bosom of Abraham." It's been several
>> years since I researched this matter, but my impression is that there were
>> two different views taught by the rabbis regarding the immediate
>> post-mortal condition: according to one of them the dead sleep (the GNT
>> refers to KOIMASQAI or the like) until the day or resurrection & judgment;
>> according to the other the righteous go immediately to a
>> temporary heavenly
>> abode where they are "with God" but will come with the Messiah at the
>> end-time and participate then in the resurrection of bodies and final
>> judgment. What I seriously doubt is that there was any single "standard"
>> conception held by Jewish believers of all sects in Palestine and the
>> Diaspora. At any rate, I wonder why Iver is so confident of the view of hO
>> PARADEISOS that he has expressed--and that Jesus would have addressed the
>> criminal in the passage in question in terms of an eschatological
>> conception that is different from that which he himself held. I certainly
>> wouldn't claim that cannot be; I just don't see how it is demonstrable.
>
>I can see that my statement "people at the time" was not careful enough. I
>did not mean to say that all Jews at the time had the same view.
>
>In what way would Jesus be addressing the criminal in terms of an
>eschatological conception that is different from what he himself held? I had
>not thought that he did. Does the parable of the rich man and Lazarus in
>Luke 16 not give an indication of the "eschatological conception" of Jesus?
>That is, the innocent beggar was carried in spirit by the angels to the
>bosom of Abraham after death. The rich man woke up after death in Hades in a
>tormenting fire. There are clearly two separate places that people's spirits
>go to after death, according to this parable of Jesus. Only later will there
>be a bodily resurrection from both places - although not at the same time.
>There is no indication that their spirits were asleep until the
>resurrection. Where would the spirit of the forgiven criminal go to? Where
>would the spirit of Jesus go to? None would end up in the tormenting fire.
>While the parable says that people are not able to cross from one side to
>the other after death, for God nothing is impossible, and Jesus apparently
>did go for a visit to Hades in his spirit after death and before his
>resurrection.
>
>I am not intending to further a particular theology, but trying to collate
>the various sayings of Jesus, Paul and Peter about this concept that we do
>not know much about. It is relevant to Luke 23:43 in that the interpreters'
>assumption of what Paradise stands for, heavily influences how they read the
>passage.
And while it may to some seem desirable to do that, for my part I am not
satisfied that these various texts offer a consistent or uniform
perspective. This is a matter wherein hermeneutical assumptions may govern
one's judgment--and of course, on B-Greek, at least, de hermeneuticis non
disputandum est.
--
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)
Most months: 1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu OR cwconrad at ioa.com
WWW: http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~cwconrad/
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