ENESTERNISMENOI (Was: De-Inflection Software?)
Richard A. Stauch
rstauch at charter.net
Sun Sep 22 10:43:21 EDT 2002
Dear Steve,
I didn't see anything wrong with Peter's analogy. It seemed quite apt to
me. I get your point, but I think it's weakened by an inchoate fear that
someone out there might kid themselves about how much they really know.
Take my word for it, or not, those people are out there, and will be out
there no matter what tools they have available.
To say that someone could build a keyboard and thereby learn how to type
quickly is preposterous PRIMA FACIE. You concede that point, then go on
to say that the keyboard builder would at least be familiar with the
characters and punctuation of the language. Tell that to the Chinese
keyboard-factory workers in Taiwan.
Just because someone has seen a "J" character doesn't mean they know
what it is, what it's called, or how to use it.
Maybe this analogy would look better to you. If one could build a car,
that wouldn't give one a license to drive. I am reminded of some of the
"scholars" out there making names for themselves among the hoi
polloi-media types, who reach agenda-driven conclusions about ancient
times and people with impunity. Some of my ideas may "disturb" you,
Steve, but I am much more disturbed by the "work" of the Jesus Seminar
than I am by the prospect of a better tool.
Decades ago I applied myself to the effort of learning the keyboard well
enough to "touch-type". I got my speed up to where I can keep up with my
own thoughts easily. That effort, I am convinced, helped me to learn a
new keyboard layout for Greek. I can type a Greek text almost as fast as
I can in English. I didn't have a mentor, or a take a class, I did it on
my own. About 12 years ago, I began working for a warehouse company that
had an AS/400 as its IT backbone. I had never seen or heard of one
before, but I applied myself to learning it. After a couple of years I
had thoroughly revamped the applications, automating practically
everything, and interconnecting the office LAN with the midrange
machine. I proved my work saved the company tens of thousands of dollars
per year, in part just by reducing my own hours. I didn't have a mentor
or take a class for that either.
I did it by learning to work smarter.
I succeeded by producing results faster than the competition.
Imagine if you could automate much of the process of translation. Oh,
for a certainty, human eyes would still have to proof it, but the
majority of the work could be done in seconds! Even if one could finish
the work in a tenth of the time it now takes, think of the things one
could do with the rest of that time -- like interpretation.
One might even find time to read a book on, say, logic.
In the Love of Christ,
Richard Allan Stauch
Long Beach, CA
http://www.rstauch.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steven Lo Vullo [mailto:slovullo at mac.com]
> Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 10:08 PM
> To: Biblical Greek
> Subject: [b-greek] RE: ENESTERNISMENOI (Was: De-Inflection Software?)
>
> On Saturday, September 21, 2002, at 07:23 PM, Peter Kirby wrote:
>
> >> One final comment which may sound sarcastic but really is deadly
> >> serious:
> >> that's a neat citation from Smyth. I really think such a project is
> >> eminently do-able, BUT I think that in order to create it you would
> >> haveto
> >> learn thoroughly what all the interacting factors in the morphology
> >> of all
> >> inflected forms actually are and HOW they interact (e.g. for verbs,
> >> how
> >> consonantal stems alter before different consonantal endings such
as
> >> GRAF
> >> in GEGRAMMAI, GEGRAYAI and GEGRAPTAI as well as the infinitive
> >> GEGRAFQAI;
> >> how augment replaces reduplication in certain double-consoant verbs
> >> like
> >> ENESTERNISMENOI, etc., etc.). And ... once you have mastered all
these
> >> interacting factors that enter into the multiplicitous inflectional
> >> system
> >> of Greek--especially the verb--you'll have a splendid program--but
YOU
> >> WON'T NEED IT ANY MORE, because you'll be able instantly to guess
> >> intelligently at the lemma and recognize precisely what form you
have
> >> before you without using the newly-formed program at all. Or to say
> >> thatin
> >> different words: you would have to learn all that you really need
to
> >> know
> >> about the interaction of elements in Greek inflection in order to
> >> create
> >> the program, and then you wouldn't need the program.
> >
> > 1. This is no more true than the idea that a man who builds a
> > keyboard can
> > then type at 100 words a minute. Sure, you have to know where all
the
> > keys
> > go to build a keyboard, but you don't get the practice in typing
> > naturally,
> > just as a person who compiles and codifies grammatical information
> > does not
> > develop the skill of natural recall.
>
> What is this, false analogy day? This is the second one I have read
> today. Of course the builder of a keyboard will not necessarily have
> the PHYSICAL ability to type QUICKLY. But he will certainly be
familiar
> with the alphabet, numerals, punctuation, and symbols of the language
> for which the keyboard is built, as well as their proper arrangement.
> The question of knowledge has nothing to do with that of speed. I can
> assure you that I know my ABCs, but I still type with my two index
> fingers at an embarrassingly slow rate. As for natural recall, if one
> studies first year Greek diligently, then faithfully spends time
> reading and studying the language continually, that person will recall
> enough to be able to look at most forms and make an intelligent
> decision about the morphology. There is often more than one clue,
> whether in the word itself or in its relationship to other words in
the
> context in which it is found, to tip off the reader as to the form.
> This type of discernment is a fundamental ability that--pardon my lack
> of "sensitivity"--separates those who know the language from those who
> do not.
>
> > 2. There may be more than one person involved in making the
program,
> > including a programmer and a Greek expert. The Greek expert won't
> > need the
> > program very much, but the programmer might.
>
> I can confidently say that there are few people who love Bible
software
> more than I. But I am so glad I learned Greek BEFORE having recourse
to
> the "Instant Details" box in my Accordance software program. All I
have
> to do is move the cursor over the desired word and, voila, there is
the
> form, its lemma, parsing, and gloss. As useful as this is at times, it
> could easily be used to mask an ignorance of the language, and give
> people the false security that they understand what they really don't.
> One of the things I found particularly disturbing in Richard's
comments
> was the idea of working "smart" rather than "hard," and his appeal to
> the private sector and its focus on "results," presumably quick
> results. I hope there are not many people out there who really think
> that one can gain a good knowledge of the language without a LOT of
> VERY hard work. These people will ultimately mark themselves as those
> who are neither smart nor diligent.
> ============
>
> Steven R. Lo Vullo
> Madison, WI
>
>
> ---
> B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek
> You are currently subscribed to b-greek as: [rstauch at charter.net]
> To unsubscribe, forward this message to leave-b-greek-
> 145275F at franklin.oit.unc.edu
> To subscribe, send a message to subscribe-b-greek at franklin.oit.unc.edu
>
More information about the B-Greek
mailing list