ENESTERNISMENOI (Was: De-Inflection Software?)
Steven Lo Vullo
slovullo at mac.com
Sun Sep 22 15:33:01 EDT 2002
On Sunday, September 22, 2002, at 09:43 AM, Richard A. Stauch wrote:
> I didn't see anything wrong with Peter's analogy. It seemed quite apt
> to
> me. I get your point, but I think it's weakened by an inchoate fear
> that
> someone out there might kid themselves about how much they really know.
> Take my word for it, or not, those people are out there, and will be
> out
> there no matter what tools they have available.
Well okay, since they are out there anyway, let's participate in their
delusion.
> To say that someone could build a keyboard and thereby learn how to
> type
> quickly is preposterous PRIMA FACIE. You concede that point, then go on
> to say that the keyboard builder would at least be familiar with the
> characters and punctuation of the language. Tell that to the Chinese
> keyboard-factory workers in Taiwan. Just because someone has seen a "J"
> character doesn't mean they know what it is, what it's called, or how
> to use it.
Peter clearly DID NOT have Chinese keyboard factory workers in mind.
His contrast was between *building* and *typing quickly*, not between
*building* and *ignorance of the alphabet*. This is just an attempt to
reinterpret and salvage a bad analogy. He says, "This is no more true
than the idea that a man who builds a keyboard can then type at 100
words a minute," and, "you don't get the practice in typing naturally,
just as a person who compiles and codifies grammatical information does
not develop the skill of natural recall."
Actually, you could use the analogy of the keyboard with its "practice
in typing" to good effect. Just as no one will become proficient in
typing without a basic knowledge of the keyboard and much practice in
using it, so no one will become proficient in parsing without a
fundamental knowledge of morphology and much practice identifying
forms. The only way to actually understand the forms of words and
identify them is to *learn* and *do*. Using a software program that
spits out results is NOT learning and doing.
> Maybe this analogy would look better to you. If one could build a car,
> that wouldn't give one a license to drive. I am reminded of some of the
> "scholars" out there making names for themselves among the hoi
> polloi-media types, who reach agenda-driven conclusions about ancient
> times and people with impunity. Some of my ideas may "disturb" you,
> Steve, but I am much more disturbed by the "work" of the Jesus Seminar
> than I am by the prospect of a better tool.
Okay, I'll go with that one as long as you follow it to its logical
conclusion. Just as building a car does not give one a license to
drive, so creating parsing software does not give one a license to use
it. Did I miss something here?
As for the Jesus Seminar, what is needed to combat that sort of thing
is not an angry mob of ignorant villagers with nuclear bombs instead of
pitchforks, but a well-trained army disciplined in the fundamental
skills needed for battle and thoroughly drilled in the strategies of
war.
> Decades ago I applied myself to the effort of learning the keyboard
> well
> enough to "touch-type". I got my speed up to where I can keep up with
> my
> own thoughts easily. That effort, I am convinced, helped me to learn a
> new keyboard layout for Greek. I can type a Greek text almost as fast
> as
> I can in English. I didn't have a mentor, or a take a class, I did it
> on
> my own. About 12 years ago, I began working for a warehouse company
> that
> had an AS/400 as its IT backbone. I had never seen or heard of one
> before, but I applied myself to learning it. After a couple of years I
> had thoroughly revamped the applications, automating practically
> everything, and interconnecting the office LAN with the midrange
> machine. I proved my work saved the company tens of thousands of
> dollars
> per year, in part just by reducing my own hours. I didn't have a mentor
> or take a class for that either.
>
> I did it by learning to work smarter.
>
> I succeeded by producing results faster than the competition.
>
> Imagine if you could automate much of the process of translation. Oh,
> for a certainty, human eyes would still have to proof it, but the
> majority of the work could be done in seconds! Even if one could finish
> the work in a tenth of the time it now takes, think of the things one
> could do with the rest of that time -- like interpretation.
>
> One might even find time to read a book on, say, logic.
Before deciding that the "old way" (actually learning the language
before trying to use it) is inefficient and outmoded, try this: Give
yourself six months to a year to study Greek intensively. After that
time, read the GNT on a regular basis and see if you don't recognize
word forms pretty readily. Then compare that with having to type every
other word into a software program. Finally, report to the rest of us
which is really the time-saver in the long run.
I'll leave for the rest to judge what is logical.
============
Steven R. Lo Vullo
Madison, WI
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