[B-Greek] APAITEW in Luke 12:20

Carl W. Conrad cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Thu Sep 25 05:38:05 EDT 2003


On the basis of an off-list communication from Paul Toseland I need to
retract my comments regarding the John Nolland commentary on Luke that I
offered in yesterday morning's mailing. Paul informs me that the citation
upon which I commented was taken out of context. The discussion from which
the passage on which I commented concerned the question whether Luke
himself composed the text of 12;20 or reproduced what he found in his
source. I don't have access to the Nolland commentary, but Paul tells me
that Nolland's argument was that the phrasing of the impersonal active
APAITOUSIN in this verse was unlikely to be Lucan in origin and more likely
derived from Luke's source. Textual criticism, of course, and questions of
source-criticism or redaction-criticism that depend upon textual criticism,
is not really a matter within the parameters of appropriate list
discussion. I simply want to apologize for my remarks in the message
appended below, those remarks having been based upon an inadequate
representation of what was actually being argued in the commentary.

On the other hand, whether or not the four other instances of impersonal
third-plural in Luke listed by Robertson (Luke 6:38 ;Luke 12:11 ;Luke 16:9
;Luke 23:31) are Lucan redaction or derive from Luke's source, it cannot be
said that the construction (impersonal third-plural) is alien to the extant
text of Luke.

>Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 06:16:02 -0400
>To: "james" <no_coldpop at hotpop.com>
>From: "Carl W. Conrad" <cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu>
>Subject: Re: [B-Greek] APAITEW in Luke 12:20
>
>At 3:20 PM +0700 9/24/03, james wrote:
>>Dear listers
>>
>>First of all, thanks to Prof. Conrad for answering my previous post.
>>
>>I have another question from Luke 12.
>>The text is Luke 12:20:
>>
>>EIPEN DE AUTWi hO QEWS. AFRWN, TAUTHi THi NUKTI THN YUCHN SOU APAITOUSIN APO
>>SOU. HA DE hHTOIMASAS, TINI ESTAI;
>>
>>Most of translations I've read translated the clause THN YUCHN SOU
>>APAITOUSIN APO SOU into the passive, for ex.: "... your life will be
>>demanded from you" (NIV). Yet APAITOUSIN is in the Active Present indikative
>>3rd person plural.
>>I tried looking up to John Nolland's Luke commentary (WBC) and found this
>>comment:
>>
>>"... and for APAITOUSIN it is difficult to see Luke using the impersonal
>>third person plural in place of the passive (the same idiom, i.e., the
>>request for the return of the soul, is found in Wis 15:8, but with the
>>passive form of the verb)."
>>
>>Yet I'm afraid I still don't get his point (looks like my bad english
>>prevented me), nor enlighten myself in trying to understand the use of
>>APAITOUSIN here.
>>
>>So here is my question. How can we understand the use of the active voice
>>and the plural for APAITEW in this context? Is the use of APAITOUSIN here
>>idiomatic (so, literally, "... they are demanding your life" without any
>>particular referencing on who "they" are) or impersonal (but why the
>>plural?) or is there any other explanation?
>>
>>several side-questions: can anyone share to me what Luke commentary is their
>>personal favorite? and perhaps what section of the grammar book should I
>>come to, to make myself better prepared to deal with (for me)
>>not-the-usual-Koine-Greek-construction-I-can-handle texts such as the above?
>>:-)
>
>I cite Robertson's Word Pictures (on-line version at
>http://www.biblestudytools.net/Commentaries/RobertsonsWordPictures/
>on this verse:
>
>--Plural active present, not passive: "They are demanding thy soul from
>thee." The impersonal plural (AITOUSIN) is common enough ( Luke 6:38 ;Luke
>12:11 ;Luke 16:9 ;Luke 23:31 ). The rabbis used "they" to avoid saying
>"God."
>
>I don't know whether or not it's true that this is rabbinical usage as
>Robertson claims or not; if so, I guess it's equivalent to the so-called
>"divine passive" that some claim is Semitism in Hellenistic usage to avoid
>use of the divine name. On the other hand, it seems to me that (a) the
>impersonal third-plural is not uncommon in colloquial English, e.g.,
>"they'll get you sooner or later." I would suppose its comparable to French
>use of the impersonal third-person "on" or the German impersonal
>third-person "man." As Robertson says, this passage is not the only
>occurrence of the usage in Luke; I'm reminded of the passage that threw me
>for a loop when I first met it in Mark more than 50 years ago (Mk 2:3): KAI
>ERCONTAI FERONTES PROS AUTON PARALUTIKON AIROMENON hUPO TESSARWN. What's
>the subject of ERCONTAI, I asked? and are the four who are carrying the
>paralytic on a litter idential with those who come bringing it? What an odd
>expression! I've long since satisfied myself that this is a colloquial
>phrasing meaning that a paralytic on a four-man litter is brought before
>Jesus, that the persons who brought the paralytic are not named, that being
>a minor detail inasmuch as the focus of the narrative is elsewhere.
>
>Beyond that, I rather marvel at the seemingly naive commentator's note
>cited above,
>
>>"... and for APAITOUSIN it is difficult to see Luke using the impersonal
>>third person plural in place of the passive (the same idiom, i.e., the
>>request for the return of the soul, is found in Wis 15:8, but with the
>>passive form of the verb)."
>
>Is it being suggested that all the MSS are wrong in indicating that this is
>what Luke wrote? Or is Luke being faulted for bad grammar or bad style? Or
>is it even perhaps supposed that Jesus would (at least in Luke's gospel)
>surely not use a colloquialism? I suppose the appropriate response to the
>cited comment is, "it may be difficult, but it's not impossible."
>--
>
>Carl W. Conrad
>Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)
>1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
>cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
>WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
>---
>B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek
>B-Greek mailing list
>B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
>http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek
>
-- 

Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)
1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/



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