[B-Greek] 1 COR 11.7

Carl W. Conrad cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Tue Sep 30 12:12:46 EDT 2003


Waldo, I think the point is that 2 Cor 12:14 is only an apparent exception,
while 1 Cor 11:7 clearly follows the rule.

NET has 12:14 ...  For children should not have to save up for their
parents, but parents for their children.  with the note: 'Grk "children
ought not," but this might give the impression that children are not
supposed to support sick or aging parents in need of help. That is not what
Paul is saying. His point is that children should not have to pay their
parent's way.'

That is to say, in 2 Cor 12:14 (OU GAR OFEILEI TA TEKNA TOIS GONEUSIN
QHSAURIZEIN ALLA hOI GONEIS TOIS TEKNOIS) the OU really negates TA TEKNA
TOIS GONEUSIN QHSAURIZEN, not OFEILEI.


ouj ga»r ojfei÷lei ta» te÷kna toiˆß goneuvsin qhsauri÷zein aÓlla» oiš
goneiˆß toiˆß te÷knoiß.

But for 1 Cor 11:7 NET has 11:7 For a man should not have his head covered, ...

and I think that is quite right.

At 7:58 AM -0700 9/30/03, waldo slusher wrote:
>Carl:
>
>I'm not following you on this. English negation
>differentiates between Porter's ENGLISH gloss "A man
>is not obligated to cover his head" and your gloss
>"ought NOT to cover his head." Even in English, these
>are quite different semantically! And in fact, you
>quote BDAG as Englishing OUK OFEILEI exactly as
>Porter: "children are under no obligation to lay up
>money for their parents." This is substantially
>different than: "children ought NOT to lay up money
>for their parents." I think you are arguing against
>Porter's gloss (a man is not obligated to cover his
>head) but I fail to see where you are headed with this
>resolution in light of quoting this passage by BDAG in
>2 Cor 12:14.
>
>Waldo
>
>
>
>
>--- "Carl W. Conrad" <cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu>
>wrote:
>> At 5:45 AM -0700 9/30/03, waldo slusher wrote:
>> >ANHR MEN GAR OUK OFEILEI KATAKALUPTESQAI THN
>> KEPALHN
>> >
>> >Porter's gloss of this is approximately:
>> >
>> >"A man is not obligated to cover his head"
>> >
>> >This gloss is somewhat in opposition to most
>> English
>> >translations, implying to me that a man may choose
>> to
>> >cover his head if he prefers. Anyone objection to
>> this gloss?
>>
>> I think that this may be more of an
>> English-translation problem than one of
>> the meaning of the Greek; the Greek certainly means
>> "ought NOT to cover his
>> head" or "should NOT cover his head." Greek negates
>> the auxiliary in
>> constructions like this, whereas English negates the
>> complementary
>> infinitive, so that OU DEI means "there is an
>> obligation NOT to do X" and
>> OUK ANAGKH means "there is a compulsion NOT to do x"
>>
>> BDAG s.v. OFEILW 2aB: be obligated. w. inf. foll.
>> one must, one ought (Hom.
>> [Il. 19, 200] et al.; ins, pap; 4 Macc 11:15; 16:19;
>> Philo, Agr. 164, Spec.
>> Leg. 1, 101; TestJos 14:6; Just., A I, 4, 4 al.;
>> Mel., P. 76, 550; Iren.,
>> Did.) hO OFEILOMEN POIHSAI PEPOIHKAMEN Lk 17:10.
>> KATA TON NOMON OFEILEI
>> APOQANEIN J 19:7. Cp. 13:14; Ro 15:1, 27; 1 Cor
>> 7:36; 9:10; 11:10; Eph
>> 5:28; 2 Th 1:3; 2:13; Hb 2:17; 5:3, 12; 1J 2:6;
>> 3:16; 4:11; 3J 8; 1 Cl
>> 38:4; 40:1; 48:6; 51:1; 2 Cl 4:3; B 1:7; 2:1, 9f;
>> 4:6; 5:3; 6:18; 7:1, 11;
>> 13:3; Pol 5:1; 6:2; Hs 8, 9, 4 v.l.; 9, 13, 3; 9,
>> 18, 2; 9, 28, 5. Negat.
>> one ought not, one must not (Jos., Vi. 149; Ar. 13,
>> 5) Ac 17:29; 1 Cor
>> 11:7; 1 Cl 56:2; Hm 4, 1, 3; 8; s 5, 4, 2; 9, 18, 1.
>> Cp. 2 Cl 4:3. OUK
>> OFEILEI TA TEKNA TOIS GONEUSI QHSAURIZEIN children
>> are under no obligation
>> to lay up money for their parents 2 Cor 12:14.
>> --
>>
>> Carl W. Conrad
>> Department of Classics, Washington University
>> (Emeritus)
>> 1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828)
>> 675-4243
>> cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
>> WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
>
>
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-- 

Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)
1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/



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