[B-Greek] SOI in Mark 2:18
Carl W. Conrad
cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Mon Feb 9 07:17:58 EST 2004
At 10:15 PM -0500 2/8/04, <bertdehaan at gosympatico.ca> wrote:
>>
> "Carl W. Conrad" <cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu> wrote >
>
>> At 8:59 PM -0500 2/8/04, <bertdehaan at gosympatico.ca> wrote:
>> >Mark 2:18 b.
>> >DIA TI hOI MAQHTAI IWANNOU KAI hOI MAQHTAI TWN FARISAIWN NHSTEUOUSIN, hOI
>> >DE SOI MAQHTAI OU NHSTEUOUSIN;
>> >
>> >Is SOI 2nd person personal pronoun dat. sg. (disciples to you, ie. your
>> >disciples) or is it the Nom. pl. masc. modifying MAQHTAI.
>> >It probably is not a big deal because in both cases it means "your
>> >disciples", but I am interested in knowing.
>>
>> It is the pronominal adjective (SOS/SH/SON); the dative of the personal
>> pronoun would never be used this way as an adnominal modifier.
>
>I realized that I forgot to write nom. pl. masc. of what.
>I was just going to correct that, but lo and behold, I have an answer already,
>Thanks.
>In the 1st book of the Iliad line 104 the dative of the 3rd person
>personal pronoun is used in this way (I think).
>OSSE DE hOI PURI LAMPETOWNTI EIKTHN.
>"and his eyes were like blazing like fire"
George S. noted that the dual (OSSE) is obsolete in Koine Greek, but Bert's
question is rather, I think, about hOI: this is a 3d singular dative
pronoun (the forms of which-- gen. hOU, dat hOI, acc. hE--are common enough
in Homer but rare in later Greek and found most commonly in poetry. In the
sentence above hOI is that dative pronoun in sense "to him/for him."
Literally the sentence reads "and eyes to/for him to blazing fire were
like." OSSE is nominative dual, EIKTHN is 3d dual pluperfect indicative of
EOIKA ('be like'), PURI LAMPETOWNTI is participial phrase with datives of
PUR and the present ptc. of LAMPETAW. Some might call that dative hOI a
sentence modifier, others a modifier of the verb EIKTHN "were like for him"
or "were like with respect to him."
So yes, the dual noun and verb and that dative 3d sg. pronoun are obsolete
in NT Koine Greek
>Did this come into disuse in Koine?
Answered above.
>Ps. Sorry to have to ask an English Grammar question but could you explain
>the difference between 'adnominal' and 'pronominal'? The scant entries in
>the dictionary weren't of much help to me.
I used the adjective "adnominal" to refer to any grammatical element used
to qualify/modify a noun; that's most commonly an adjective or a
genitive-case form of a noun or pronoun. "Pronominal" simply means
"belonging to/associated with a pronoun."
--
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)
1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
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