[B-Greek] 1 Timothy 5:8
Alex Loney
aloney at umich.edu
Fri Jan 16 05:09:29 EST 2004
I would not dispute the definitions given for IDIWN or OKEIWN by Michael.
I don't know about the specifics of each, other than to say that IDIWN
can in some Greek dialects be a two-ending adjective. I come from a
classical training, so I can not say if three or two endings is more
common for this word in the NT. But conceivabley, IDIWN could be feminine.
However, the genders of these words don't really matter as I see it.
I think that IDIWN and OIKEIWN, as substantives modifying the verb PORNOEI,
should not require the same gender as TIS. They are generalized substantive
adjectives, which for a collective group of people Greek does in the
masculine gender. Secondly, none of the other subject related words in
verse 8 must be taken as masculine: TIS can be masc. or fem. (vide verse
4: TIS XHRA), as can XEIRWN, and even APISTOU. Nothing about this sentence
in isolation says to me that the subject must be male.
In context, where verse 4 speaks of offspring who are urged to provide for
the widows, verse 8 appears to hit upon the same thought in a strictly
generalized way. TIS is the masculine indefinte pronoun for any one person,
male or female. It by extention means all people who, in this case, do not
care for their family and household. For example, we do not say that the
beatitudes or Matthew 5, because they are masculine, only apply to men.
P.S. This is my first post to the list. Sorry if I messed up any protocols.
-----------------------
Alexander Loney
University of Michigan
-----Original Message-----
From: b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org]On Behalf Of mrt
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 10:07 PM
To: b-Greek
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] 1 Timothy 5:8
dbielby at bloomingtonvineyard.org Pastor David Bielby writes:
EI DE TIS TWN IDIWN KAI MALISTA...1 Ti 5:8 I have a question about 1 Ti 5:8.
In this context Paul seems to be talking about women (widows)...but then
makes a statement about caring for ones family and uses the masculine
gender. Is this a universal application that really means men and women?
Or is it a masculine only application? Specifically what does TWN IDIWN mean
in this verse?
________
Hi Pastor David,
I take TWN IDIWN as referring to their own relatives and then what precedes
is a more narrow focus: and especially/most of all those members of his
household (MALISTA OIKEIWN).
So relatives (broad category) to ----> immediate family
Now to answer your question, both TWN IDIWN (one's own [relatives]) and
OIKEIWN (household) just generally refer to the relatives and family members
whether male or female. So it can mean grandma, grandpa, aunt, uncle,
daughter, son etc. The masculinity of these words is simply agreeing with
TIS (anyone).
Michael Tarver
Oregon, USA
<'\\>< laus Deo
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