[B-Greek] hUPOMONH in the Apocalypse
Harold R. Holmyard III
hholmyard at ont.com
Tue Jun 1 21:43:53 EDT 2004
Dear George,
Iver has been helpful in pointing out the
parallel usage of hWDE in Rev 13:18 and 17:9. I
think Rev 17:9 is particularly clear in showing
the force of the usage:
Rev. 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom.
The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the
woman sitteth.
HH: The phrase means something like "It takes
wisdom to figure this out" or "the one who
figures this out is wise." So the NIV translation
seems good:
Rev. 17:9 ¶ "This calls for a mind with wisdom.
The seven heads are seven hills on which the
woman sits.
Yours,
Harold Holmyard
>On May 31, 2004 Iver Larsen wrote:
>>
>> hUPOMONH appears 21 times in the Apocalypse -- Re 1.9; 2.2, 3, 19;
>> 3.10;13.10; and 14.12. It appears 96 times in the entire NT. Normally
>> it is translated "patience, endurance, fortitude, steadfastness,
>> perserverance." Note, however, Re 13.10
>>
>> EI TIS EIS AIXMALWSIAN,
>> EIS AIXMALWSIAN hUPAGEI;
>> EI TIS EN MAXAIRHi APOKTANQHNAI
>> AUTON EN MAXAIRHi APOKTANQHNAI.
>>
>> hWDE ESTIN hH hUPOMONH KAI hH PISTIS TWN hAGIWN.
>> and Re 14.12
>>
>> hWDE hH hUPOMONH TWN hAGIWN ESTIN, hOI THROUNTES TAS ENTOLAS TOU QEOU
>KAI
>> THN PISTIN IHSOU.
>>
>> In these verses this gloss does not seem to fit. It would appear that
>> there is a sense which is different from and probably derived from the
>> normal meaning. I would suggest that the author of the Apocalypse uses
>> this word in the sense of "conviction, confession" or even "creed."
>>
>> Any thoughts? Does anyone agree that the meanings "patience,
>endurance,
>> etc." are inappropriate here?
>>
>> gfsomsel
>
>> Well, I cannot see how confession or creed could fit the context, and I
>> don't seen any problem with "endurance". Maybe your problem is hWDE?
>
>> NET Bible has:
>> 13:10: This requires steadfast endurance and faith from the saints.
>> Their note on hWDE reads:
>> "On hWDE here, BAGD 815 s.v. 2.b states: w. the local mng. weakened: in
>this
>> case, at this point, on this occasion, under these circumstances, in
>this
>> case moreover 1 Cor 4:2."
>
>> This special use of hWDE is also found in
>
> > Rev 13:18: This calls for wisdom.
>> Rev 14:12: This requires the steadfast endurance of the saints.
>> Rev 17:9: This requires a mind that has wisdom.
>
>> So, hWDE ESTIN is a short way of saying "this calls for" or "this
>requires"
>> or "here one needs to have" or "here it is important to have".
>
>> Iver Larsen
>________
>
>I have seen the NET note concerning this and, pace D.B. Wallace, et al
>involved with it, don't feel that it in any way solves the problem. Nor
>do I feel that this is a correct understanding of the usage of hWDE in
>this passage. Surely, had it been the intention to say that "This
>requires" it would have been more likely that DEI would have been used.
>I have the feeling that the committee involved with NET had no better
>idea what to do with this than any other translation committee has had.
>
>gfsomsel
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