[B-Greek] hUPOMONH in the Apocalypse

Harold R. Holmyard III hholmyard at ont.com
Tue Jun 1 21:43:53 EDT 2004


Dear George,

Iver has been helpful in pointing out the 
parallel usage of hWDE in Rev 13:18 and 17:9. I 
think Rev 17:9 is particularly clear in showing 
the force of the usage:

Rev. 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. 
The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the 
woman sitteth.

HH: The phrase means something like "It takes 
wisdom to figure this out" or "the one who 
figures this out is wise." So the NIV translation 
seems good:

Rev. 17:9 ¶  "This calls for a mind with wisdom. 
The seven heads are seven hills on which the 
woman sits.

				Yours,
				Harold Holmyard





>On May 31, 2004 Iver Larsen wrote:
>>
>>  hUPOMONH appears 21 times in the Apocalypse -- Re 1.9; 2.2, 3, 19;
>>  3.10;13.10; and 14.12.  It appears 96 times in the entire NT.  Normally
>>  it is translated "patience, endurance, fortitude, steadfastness,
>>  perserverance."   Note, however, Re 13.10
>>
>>  EI TIS EIS AIXMALWSIAN,
>>  EIS AIXMALWSIAN hUPAGEI;
>>  EI TIS EN MAXAIRHi APOKTANQHNAI
>>  AUTON EN MAXAIRHi APOKTANQHNAI.
>>
>>  hWDE ESTIN hH hUPOMONH KAI hH PISTIS TWN hAGIWN.
>>  and Re 14.12
>>
>>  hWDE hH hUPOMONH TWN hAGIWN ESTIN, hOI THROUNTES TAS ENTOLAS TOU QEOU
>KAI
>>  THN PISTIN IHSOU.
>>
>>  In these verses this gloss does not seem to fit.  It would appear that
>>  there is a sense which is different from and probably derived from the
>>  normal meaning.  I would suggest that the author of the Apocalypse uses
>>  this word in the sense of "conviction, confession" or even "creed."
>>
>>  Any thoughts?  Does anyone agree that the meanings "patience,
>endurance,
>>  etc." are inappropriate here?
>>
>>  gfsomsel
>
>>  Well, I cannot see how confession or creed could fit the context, and I
>>  don't seen any problem with "endurance". Maybe your problem is hWDE?
>
>>  NET Bible has:
>>  13:10: This requires steadfast endurance and faith from the saints.
>>  Their note on hWDE reads:
>>  "On hWDE here, BAGD 815 s.v. 2.b states: w. the local mng. weakened: in
>this
>>  case, at this point, on this occasion, under these circumstances, in
>this
>>  case moreover 1 Cor 4:2."
>
>>  This special use of hWDE is also found in
>
>  > Rev 13:18: This calls for wisdom.
>>  Rev 14:12: This requires the steadfast endurance of the saints.
>>  Rev 17:9: This requires a mind that has wisdom.
>
>>  So, hWDE ESTIN is a short way of saying "this calls for" or "this
>requires"
>>  or "here one needs to have" or "here it is important to have".
>
>>  Iver Larsen
>________
>
>I have seen the NET note concerning this and, pace D.B. Wallace, et al
>involved with it, don't feel that it in any way solves the problem.  Nor
>do I feel that this is a correct understanding of the usage of hWDE in
>this passage.  Surely, had it been the intention to say that "This
>requires" it would have been more likely that DEI would have been used.
>I have the feeling that the committee involved with NET had no better
>idea what to do with this than any other translation committee has had.
>
>gfsomsel
>---
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