[B-Greek] hUPOMONH in the Apocalypse

George F. Somsel gfsomsel at juno.com
Wed Jun 2 16:04:09 EDT 2004


Harold,

Thanks for calling this to my attention.  It had slipped my mind.  Of
course, it doesn't solve the problem of hUPOMONH in James 1.3 -- it
simply extends it to Paul.

gfsomsel
________

On Wed, 2 Jun 2004 10:27:04 -0500 "Harold R. Holmyard III"
<hholmyard at ont.com> writes:
> Dear George,
> 
> >We will simply have to disagree here.  I am not the least bit 
> convinced
> >of your position.  Even should one grant that hWDE is used with 
> the
> >significance of "calls for" or "requires" (which I don't grant), it 
> still
> >does not follow that hUPOMONH is used for "endurance."  I was also
> >thinking of Jas 1.3
> >
> >TO DOKIMON hUMWN THS PISTEWS KATERGAZETAI hUPOMONH
> >
> >It has always seemed evident to me that even here "endurance" is 
> an
> >inappropriate rendering of hUPOMONH.  It just as likely that TO 
> DOKIMON .
> >. . THS PISTEWS would produce OLIGOYUXIA (?) [ > OLIGOYUXOS]
> >"discoragement."   It would be more true to say that the trial of 
> one's
> >faith "requires" endurance though it is clearly stated that it 
> produces
> >hUPOMONH.  What a trial of one's faith would produce is rather
> >"conviction" which is the opposite of James' ANHR DIYUXOS (Jas 
> 1.8).
> 
> HH: Well, perhaps your understanding of Jas 1:3 is throwing off your 
> 
> understanding of the verses in Revelation, for hUPOMONH can 
> certainly 
> mean "endurance" here, and that it does is shown by the clearly 
> parallel verse in Romans:
> 
> Rom. 5:3 Not only so, but we also rejoice in our sufferings, because 
> 
> we know that suffering produces perseverance;
> 
> HH: The word "perseverance" in Rom 5:3 is hUPOMONH. The same verb 
> KATERGAZOMAI occurs in both Rom 5:3 and Jas 1:3. The idea of 
> "suffering" in Rom 5:3 is parallel to "the testing of your faith" in 
> 
> Jas 1:3, for the latter phrase is a way to describe "various kinds 
> of 
> trials" in Jas 1:2. So the two verses make essentially the same 
> point, that hard times develop the quality of endurance in 
> believers.
> 
>                                 Yours,
>                                 Harold Holmyard
> ---
> B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek
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> 
> 

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