[B-Greek] Genitive in 2 Cor 1:5
Carl W. Conrad
cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Fri Jun 4 06:29:59 EDT 2004
At 9:02 AM +0300 6/4/04, Iver Larsen wrote:
>> I'm saying that understanding as fully as possible what a Greek text is
>> saying and how it is saying it is fundamentally different from, although
>> not wholly unrelated to, expressing that content of the Greek text in
>> question in intelligible and idiomatic English. I think much of
>> what passes
>> for grammatical analysis of Greek is exercises in translation strategies
>> based on the assumption that once a Greek text has been converted to a
>> formulation in a target language, the Greek text in question has been
>> adequately understood. That is by no means necessarily true and
>> may in fact be altogether untrue. Obviously the Greek reader or hearer
>> didn't need to convert that text into a target language in order to
>understand
>> it. Understanding a Greek text and expressing the content of that Greek
>text
>> in a different language are different skills and ought not to be confused.
>> --
>>
>> Carl W. Conrad
>
>Just a small comment. It is very true that working on understanding the
>intended meaning of an original text (exegesis) is a different animal than
>re-expressing the intended meaning in another language. We who teach Bible
>translation principles call these the 2 steps of translation. First
>exegesis, then translation, and be careful to separate the two in your mind.
>
>But then I would want to make a clear distinction between the literal
>translations that are common in Greek class rooms and traditional Bible
>translations and an idiomatic translation.
>It is possible to make a literal translation - such as rendering AGAPH TOU
>QEOU with "love of God" - and then *think* that one has understood the Greek
>text. That may or may not be true.
>On the other hand, it is difficult to make a good, idiomatic translation of
>a text without first having done thorough exegesis of the original text in
>its context. An idiomatic translation using clear and natural English will
>reveal one's exegesis, whereas a literal translation does not reveal much
>about one's exegesis or lack of it.
I quite agree with this too. Where I'm not sure we'd agree, in view of your
comment on 1 Jn 2:5 hH AGAPH TOU QEOU,
At 9:01 AM +0300 6/4/04, Iver Larsen wrote:
=>This illustrates to me the danger of relying on categories like "subjective"
>and "objective" genitive. The danger is that one might think we are dealing
>with two options only, either subjective or objective. But there are other
>options, such as source (love from God) or description (Godly love). The
>common idea of subjective or objective is based on the fact that the English
>genitive can accommodate both. But that is language specific. In my
>language, the genitive "God's love" cannot be objective, but it can be
>source or description. (I cannot say "love of God" in my language, only
>"God's love"). It is better to start out with a clean slate and just say
>that "love" and "God" have been connected, and the relationship between the
>two is indicated through the other words used in the context.
is whether these genitive-case categories, "subjective," "objective,"
"source," "description," etc., etc. are thought to be inherent in the Greek
grammatical structure or are fundamentally exegetical translation
strategies, ways of getting at how a target language might best express
what the Greek text may indicate only by contextual pointers.
I don't really want to get into Hermeneutics--I don't want to get into it
at all, and a hashing-out of the principles here involved would probably
get us into a protracted discussion of Hermeneutics; I don't want to go
down that road at all. What I do want to note simply is the annoyance I
experience in reading through what is called an "exegetical grammar" such
as Wallace's GGBB and feeling with dismay that what's being talked about
that is more a matter of translation strategies than of understanding the
Greek.
--
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)
1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
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