[B-Greek] Re: Mt 9:27 (with request for expert Bible software users)

Carl W. Conrad cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Thu Mar 4 08:37:31 EST 2004


At 9:46 AM +0000 3/4/04, D Jongkind wrote:
>Dear Wieland,
>Thanks for the thread in the archive. I think most relevant things have been
>said, though I would like to point to the suggestion by professor Conrad
>that there may be Latin influence here, which is new (I think) and sounds
>quite exciting to me.
>
>Question, is there someone out there who is able to concoct a good computer
>search and provide me with more examples of the construction as in Mt 8.23
>and 9:27 (these are the only examples I can find in the standard critical
>text, I have 8 others which are hidden in textual variants)?
>What I am after is a dative participle with pronoun or substantive, followed
>by a resumptive pronoun also in the dative (without the dative pronoun or
>substantive accompanying the participle, the construction is grammatically
>pure).
>
>Especially examples from outside the NT would be more than welcome.

(1) As Wieland has noted, this was discussed on-list in May 5-7 2001; Eric
Weiss noted that Dan Wallace categorizes the few instances of this
construction as "dative absolutes." I responded then that there's hardly
any need to invent such a category as "dative absolute" when what we have
is simply a dative pronoun or noun accompanied by a dative circumstantial
participle construed with AKOLOUQEW, and so would I affirm now.

(2) Perhaps I was too hasty in my response to Dirk yesterday, hasty
especially in voicing the judgment that such a construction is by no means
unusual in Greek and that we shouldn't expect a genitive absolute in this
place; I also said that I thought Latin influence might conceivably be
involved here, as it is indeed a not-uncommon Latin prose construction. A
noteworthy instance is the memorable opening of Cicero's essay De Oratore,
"Cogitanti mihi saepe numero et memoria vetera repetenti perbeati fuisse,
Quinte frater, illi videri solent ..." ('As I pondered often and recalled
things of old, those men are wont to seem especially fortunate, brother
Quintus ... ') Such a construction does NOT appear to be so common in Greek
prose, however, and upon checking Smyth last night I found the following
note at §2017.a. "The genitive absolute may be used where the grammatical
construction demands the dative. Thus DIABEBEHKOTOS PERIKLEOUS ... HGGELQH
AUTWi hOTI MEGARA AFESTHKE 'when Pericles had already crossed over, news
was brought to him that Megara had revolted' Thuc. 1.114 (Latin: Pericli
iam transgresso nuntiatum est)." Of course the Latin here is Smyth's own
version of the Greek, and he is right to note that Latin would certainly
prefer the dative of the circumstantial participle.

(3) Dirk asks for a computer search of comparable constructions in the GNT;
I ran a quicksearch for dative participles and selected some instances that
seemed to fall into the pattern; there aren't that many, and in most of
these the circumstantial participle follows the verb rather than precedes
it as in the instances under consideration:

Mt 8:23 EMBANTI AUTWi ... HKOLOUQHSAN
Mt 9:27 PARAGONTI ... TWi IHSOU .. HKOLOUQHSAN
Mt 9:28 ELQONTI DE EIS THN OIKIAN PROSHLQON AUTWi ...
Mk 16:12 ... DUSIN EX AUTWN PERIPATOUSIN EFANERWQH (hO IHSOUS) ...
Mk 16:14 hUSTERON ANAKEIMENOIS AUTOIS TOIS hENDEKA EFANERWQH ...
Lk 1:3 EDOXE KAMOI PARHKOLOUQHKOTI ANWQEN ... SOI GRAYAI ..
Lk 6:29 TWi TUPTONTI SE EPI THN SIAGONA PARECE KAI THN ALLHN
LK 8:27 EXELQONTI DE AUTWi EPI THN GHN hUPHNTHSEN ANHR TIS
Acts 15:25 EDOXEN hHMIN GENOMENOIS hOMOQUMADON EKLEXAMENOIS ANDRAS PEMYAI ..
Acts 22:17 EGENETO DE MOI hUPOSTREYANTI EIS IEROSALHM KAI PROSEUCMENOU MOU
EN TWi hIERWi GENESQAI ME EN EKSTASEI .

The last instance may show some Semitic influence, but the construction
with the dative participle makes it appear somewhat different from the
EGENETO hOTI or the EGENETO + infinitive construction.


>> Am I correct in that you say PARAGONTI EKEIQEN TW IHSOU could be seen as
>> a "dative absolute"?
>> "And two blind men followed Jesus, as he is passing on from there"
>> Is it now connected with HKOLOUQHSAN or not?
>>
>> Hmm ... I just found out that this has been discussed before, check:
>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/b-greek/2001-May/016688.html (and
>> what follows)
>>
>> So I think all essentials have already been said?
>>
>>
>> Best wishes
>>     Wieland
>
>---
>B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek
>B-Greek mailing list
>B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
>http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek

-- 

Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)
1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/



More information about the B-Greek mailing list