[B-Greek] Rev 7:14 hOUTOI EISIN hOI *ERCOMENOI* EK THS QLIYEWS THSMEGALHS

Iver Larsen iver_larsen at sil.org
Mon May 17 14:10:02 EDT 2004


>
> I think you are referring to the imperfective aspect of the present
> tense here - but the action that is being described from the inside is
> "coming", isn't it? Doesn't this provide an inside, ongoing perspective
> of people who are coming?
>
> > According to v. 9 the whole group is now standing before the
> > throne and they are KRAZOUSIN LEGONTES - present tense.
> > You can translate this by the English "they have come out" to
> indicate that
> > all within the referenced group have come out, but without
> implying that the
> > tribulation is over. Others might still be coming.
>
> In English, I could say, "During rush hour, the station is filled with
> the people who are coming out of the trains." Obviously, the people who
> are already in the subway station are not the same ones who are
> physically leaving the train at any given moment, but to me, this places
> emphasis on the continual arrival of people from the trains. That's the
> kind of picture that I formed when reading this verse. Am I reading too
> much into it?

Well, it does not fit the context of Rev 7, because the group referred to
have already come out, and there is no indication that people are still
coming. John uses the so-called historic present a lot, and this may be one
such instance. In Revelation there are 145 articular present participles and
6 aorist ones. The verb ERCOMAI occurs 92 times in the NT in the form of an
aorist participle, and 59 times in the form of a present participle. But in
Revelation, the same verb occurs 4 times in the present (3 of which have
future reference), but never in the aorist. Similarly, in John's gospel, the
present participle of this verb occurs 15 times and the aorist 9 times. I am
not going to put too much weight on this, just to say that John seems to
like using the present tense more than other writers.

> In verse 10 we have another present middle participle:
>
> hH SWTHRIA TWi QEWi hHMWN TWi *KAQHMENWi* EPI TWi QRWNWi KAI TWi ARNIWi.
>
> Would you find it acceptable to translate this, "Salvation be to our God
> who has sat on the throne, and to the Lamb"?

No, I would translate this as "Salvation comes from our God who sits on the
throne, and from the Lamb." But I could still accept the NET Bible which
says "the one seated on the throne".
Whether to translate a Greek present with present or something else in
English is partly a matter of context, and it is the context that makes
almost all English versions use "have come" in v. 14. Notice that the elder
had just asked in v. 13: "Where did they come from?" with an aorist POQEN
HLQON. Then John says, "I don't know", so the elder continues, "They are the
ones coming out from... and they have washed..." I don't think one can
squeeze much out of the present tense of the substantive participle. It
seems more to me like "they are the survivors" rather than the more strict
"they are the ones who have survived."

Iver Larsen




More information about the B-Greek mailing list