[B-Greek] AGGELOS in 2 Cor 12:7
bertdehaan at gosympatico.ca
bertdehaan at gosympatico.ca
Sun May 23 21:51:33 EDT 2004
Thanks George (and Ann and Michel)
George, maybe I misunderstand you, are you saying that because messenger of Satan is in apposition to thorn, an impersonal noun, messenger may need to be viewed as impersonal? Couldn't SKOLOY THi SARKI be a figure of speech indicating either someTHING or someONE, the same way someone in English may say it (or he) is such a pain in the neck?
Bert de Haan.
----------------
> From: "George F. Somsel" <gfsomsel at juno.com>
> Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 17:50:29 -0400
> To: bertdehaan at gosympatico.ca
> CC: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] AGGELOS in 2 Cor 12:7
>
> Bert,
>
> Note that SKOLOY is nom ms as is AGGELOS. This would suggest that
> AGGELOS SATANA is in apposition. Unless we wish to consider the (not to
> be automatically eliminated) option that this is viewed as a concept
> related to demonic possession, it would need to be impersonal. Since
> Jesus and even the disciples are said to have cast out demons, it would
> seem that such a concept was operative during the NT though we would not
> ascribe mental or physical illness to demonic possession today. Thus, I
> would suppose you could understand it as either personal or impersonal.
> I apologize that my response is beyond strict linguistic grounds, but
> some things cannot be answered simply by linguistics.
>
> gfsomsel
> ________
>
> On Sun, 23 May 2004 16:54:43 -0400 <bertdehaan at gosympatico.ca> writes:
> > 2 Cor.12:7b-8
> > (7B)EDOQH MOI SKOLOY THi SARKI, AGGELOS SATANA, hINA ME KOLAFIZHi,
> > hINA MH hUPERAIRWMAI.(8)hUPER TOUTOU TRIS TON KURION PAREKALESA,
> > hINA APOSTHi AP EMOU.
> >
> > In every English translation that I checked AGGELOS here is
> > considered something impersonal. It is commonly explained as a
> > physical problem. In verse 8, hINA APOSTHi AP EMOU is then
> > translated as -that it might depart from me-. The Dutch translations
> > have -that he might depart from me-.
> >
> > According to Trenchard the word AGGELOS occurs 175 times in the GNT.
> > Using a concordance, I checked out a selection of them (I don't have
> > a Greek concordance so I can't be exhaustive.) I could not find
> > another instance where AGGELOS was translated as impersonal.
> > Would it be more likely that Paul was plagued by a person as a
> > messenger of Satan, rather than some sort of physical ailment?
> > Thank you.
> > Bert de Haan.
> > (Ps. I now receive the digest so please Cc any replies to me.)
> >
> > ---
> > B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek
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> >
> >
>
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