[B-Greek] hUPOMONH in the Apocalypse

Harold R. Holmyard III hholmyard at ont.com
Sun May 30 21:44:15 EDT 2004


Dear George,

I said that a more literal translation than the NIV might allow more 
nuances. I admitted that I am comfortable with the NIV and perhaps 
could be wrong for liking its handling of the verses you brought up. 
So I am acknowledging that it is not a strictly literal translation. 
When you reply that it is not the least bit literal in these verses, 
you seem to be denying any literal aspect to the translation. Perhaps 
it is not literal by some definitions, but a translation ought to 
capture the force of idioms. "Here is the endurance of the saints," 
NIV felt, and I believe correctly, fails to convey the force of the 
Greek, which is evidently an idiom. The idea that hUPOMONH means 
"conviction" or something like that would need supporting evidence, 
and my older BAGD does not provide any for such a meaning for the 
noun. No, I think the NIV was trying to capture the implications of 
the Greek phrase with hWDE. There are idioms in English that are 
simple in terms of words, but which convey a different meaning that 
the words might seem to carry to someone unfamiliar with them. 
"Here's looking at you" is a toast, but one needs to be familiar with 
the way the words are used. "That's the ballgame" can imply that 
whatever event is being drawn attention to signals the end of the 
effort that is underway. "That's the way it goes" can mean that this 
is just the way life works, so one has to get used to it. There are a 
lot of plain looking idioms, and I think that hWHE with ESTIN and hH 
hUPOMONH was probably a simple idiom in Greek.

				Yours,
				Harold Holmyard

>Harold,
>
>I'm sorry to have to deflate your ballon, but the NIV is not the least
>bit literal here.  The more "literal" translations make no sense, and the
>ones that make sense aren't literal.
>
>gfsomsel



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