[B-Greek] BDAG on QEOS and John 1:1

A. Dirkzwager dirkzwager at pandora.be
Fri Nov 26 13:48:24 EST 2004


Don,

I had decided to write nothing about QEOS in Jh 1:1, because the matter had
been treated on this list before and because it is clear that the question
if we must understand "God" or "a god" cannot been settled with the Greek
text of Jh 1:1 alone.

However I would like to give some comment on your message quoted after my
lines.
The dictionary of Bauer (I possess the German edition) is excellent, but
Bauer had his theological opinion too and it is methodologically not safe to
follow him in everything. We have to check the texts he mentions ourselves.

Concerning Ad Diognetum (known as "To Diognetus" or "The Epistle to
Diognetus") you quote. The full sentence of that text reads:
ALL' hOSTIS TO TOU PLHSION ANADECETAI BAROS, hOS EN hWi KREISSWN ESTIN
hETERON TON ELATTOUMENON EUERGETEIN EQELEI, hOS hA PARA TOU QEOU LABWN EXEI,
TAUTA TOIS EPIDEOMENOIS CORHGWN QEOS GINETAI TWN LAMBANONTWN, hOUTOS MIMHTHS
ESTI QEOU.
The passage (also before this sentence) is speaking about being an imitator
of God. The conclusion of our sentence is clear: hOUTOS MIMHTHS
ESTI QEOU.
Before that conclusion the unknown author writes that a person who is
helping the poor QEOS GINETAI TWN LAMBANONTWN "becomes God for those who get
it".
In the context that can mean that the poor are *seeing* him as God  or a
god, but also that
he *takes the role* of God.
In my opinion the text cannot give us the possibility to decide if *Christ*
could be seen as God or a god by his followers.

Concerning Ex 7: 1 we see that God himself *compares* the role of Moses with
God and that of Aaron with a prophet, because Moses will be silent and Aaron
will speak to the Pharoah. The text does not speak about salvation for the
Jews but about speaking and being silent.
So this text cannot be used for the purpose it is used in the message below.

The decision whether Christ was seen as God in the full sense of the word
has to be solved with other texts. John himself gives us two important
clues:

- Well known is 8: 58 PRIN ABRAAM GENESQAI EGO EIMI, where EGO EIMI clearly
refers to the name of God "I am". The reaction of the Jews in the next verse
shows that that understood the claim of Jesus for they tried to organize the
punishment prescribed in Lv 24: 16 "when he blasphemes *the Name*".

- Less known is 10: 30-31 where the Jews try to stone Jesus again. There He
had said "I and the Father are one". If the Jews thought He had blasphemed
the Name, that can only mean that Jesus was alluding to the Shema "JHWH is
one". I presume He had not used the Aramaic word for 'one', but the Hebrew
one in order to make claer that He was quoting from Dt 6.

In the message below we read several times about the Shema. I think in Jh
10: 30-31 you have the text you looked for, where Jesus is identified with
the JHWH of the Shema.

Hoping the message is not too exegetical, but challenged by the message
quoted below,

Arie


Dr. A. Dirkzwager
Hoeselt, Belgium
e-mail dirkzwager at pandora.be

----- Oorspronkelijk bericht -----
Van: "Dan Parker" <stoixein at sdf.lonestar.org>
Aan: <gfsomsel at juno.com>
CC: <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Verzonden: donderdag 25 november 2004 19:53
Onderwerp: [B-Greek] BDAG on QEOS and John 1:1


> Dear scholars,
> The excellent Bauer-Danker-Arndt-Gingrich distinguishes QEOS when
> used of Christ in section #2 as neither _equating_ Christ with
> the Father who they identify as the God referenced by the Shema of
> Israel with:
>
> BDAG 405-406 2 "Some writings in our lit. use the word
> Q. w. ref. to Christ(without necessarily equating Christ
> with the Father and therefore in harmony with the Shema of Israel
> Dt. 6:4; cp  Mk 10:18  and 4a below) though the interpretation
> of some of the pass. is in debate.
>
> Notice how their reference to Mark 10:18 compared to Dt 6:4 highlights
> this distinction between the Father as QEOS and the Christ as QEOS.
> It is interesting that Bauer's German edtion adds "dem obersten Gott"
> (the uppermost God) as a description of the Father.
>
>
> They continue by commenting upon the usage of the word QEOS in the
> context of the time when the Bible was written in both the Jewish
> setting and that of Greek and Roman world at that time.
>
>
> In Mosaic and Gr-Rom traditions the fundamental semantic component
> in the understanding of deity is the factor of performance, namely
> saviorhood or extraordinary contributions to one's society.
>
>
> They then offer this quote from a 2nd century Christian work:
>
> Dg. 10:6 defines the ancient perspective:
> hOS hA PARA TOU QEOU LABWN EXEI TAUTA TOIS EPIDEOMENOIS
> XORHGWN QEOS GINETAI TWN LAMBANANTWN
>
> and render this as:
>
> "one who ministers to the needy what one has received from God
> proves to be a god to the recipients (cp. Sb III, 6263, 27 of
> a mother)."
>
> They also touch upon the verse which started this thread, John 1:1
> and help inform our view of the sense of QEOS as being the same
> as the quote above.  They say:
>
>
> In any event Q. certainly refers to Christ, as one who manifests
> primary characteristics of deity, in the foll. NT pass.: J 1:1b
> (w. hO QEOS 1:a, which refers to God in the monotheistic context
> of Israel's tradition.
>
> Once again they contrast the usage of QEOS when the Father is in view
> as being God in the "monotheistic context of Israel's tradition" of
> the Shema which serves as a Jewish creed for this concept.
>
> They realize that calling Christ QEOS in this context is a problem for
> someand so they say to see the following verses to illustrate how
> QEOS at John 1:1 should be understood.
>
> On the problem raised by such attribution s. J 10:34
> (cp. Ex 7:1; Ps 81:6)
>
> It is interesting to note that in Exodus 7:1 in the LXX Moses is referred
> to as "a god" in the context of the representitive of God and
> the savior of his people.  This well illustrates the "saviorhood"
> mentioned earlier.
>
>
> Best Regards,
> Dan Parker
> ---
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>
>




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