[B-Greek] Caragounis book-Wilkins

Dr. Don Wilkins drdwilkins at sbcglobal.net
Sat Nov 27 17:56:45 EST 2004


My apologies for responding to Randall's comments out of order.

On Friday, November 26, 2004, at 07:12 PM, R Yochanan Bitan Buth wrote:

> Wilkins EGRAPSEN
>> Now this is getting interesting.>
>
> KALWS
>
> ...
>> the historical development of Greek from Attic to modern is a gradual
> reduction in precision and complexity (if anyone disagrees, please say 
> so)>
>
> That sentence may sound like an attitude frequent in the 19th century. 
> In
> resonse: all languages change, of course, and usually by reducing
> complexity, but the new structures are used by their speakers to 
> precisely
> say what they want to say. For example, dropping the ancient DATIVE 
> case and
> requiring the use of prepositions in modern Greek does simplify the
> morphology of nouns, but modern Greek speakers can be every bit as 
> precise
> as they need be, even more so than the ancient, by those choices of
> prepositions.
>
I don't see how "even more so" can be supported on the whole, though 
perhaps there are exceptions, e.g. as idiomatic expressions. When one 
has fewer tools to work with, one can improvise, but it's hard for me to 
imagine how improvisations can be superior to the tool designed for the 
job. I love crescent wrenches, but I would rather have a wrench made 
just for the nut I'm trying to unscrew.
> ...
>> Now my understanding is that NA has come over into modern Greek from 
>> hINA,
> and NA seems to be diluted down to the equivalent of the English "to". 
> *If*
> that is true (and I encourage any corrections for errors I may be 
> making),>
>
> OK: Yes, but...
> It might be clearer to say that NA is closer to "that" in English.
> QELW NA DW in modern Greek would be closer morphologically to "I want 
> that I
> see" in English. The -W ending in DW is a first person marker (not an
> infinitive), so "he wants to see" becomes QELEI NA DH "he wants that he
> sees" (as if an ancient: QELEI INA IDHi).
> This is not too different from
> Mk 10:51 "TI SOI QELEIS POIHSW?"
> "RABBOUNEI [Heb=my master], INA ANABLEPSW !"

Actually, the use of "that" further illustrates the problem of 
ambiguity. Ask anyone what "that" means, and I doubt that a purpose 
marker would be the first response (or even second or third). So "that" 
probably is not clearer, even though the final clause as a substitute 
for a true infinitive is a valid explanation. I addressed Mark 10:51in a 
previous post.

> While the Modern Greek language should be considered a separate language
> from the ancient in the sense of mutual intelligibility or in the sense 
> of
> needing to be learned by a speaker of one of the two, modern still 
> maintains
> an organic, direct connection that is fascinating if not illuminating.
> [Caveat: while the modern structures mentioned are an accurate
> representation, I do not vouch for my spelling or word details, not 
> having
> time to check on them.]
>
The connection certainly is fascinating, and illuminating for seeing 
change in the language, such as with hINA to NA.

Don Wilkins




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