[B-Greek] The aspects of verbs in Rev. 21:24-26

moon at mail.sogang.ac.kr moon at mail.sogang.ac.kr
Sun Sep 26 03:32:03 EDT 2004


Hi,
In Rev 21:24-26 we have:

24 KAI PERIPATHSOUSIN TA EQNH DIA TOU QWTOS AUTHS. KAI hOI BASILEIS THS GHS
     will walk       the nations through her light. the kings of the earth

QEROUSIN THN DOXAN AUTWN EIS AUTHN. 

25 KAI hOI PULWNES AUTHS OU MH KLEISQWSIN hHMERAS,
bing       their glory into her.         her gateways will never  be closed during the 

day. NUX GAR OUK ESTAI EKEI.

26 KAI OISOUSIN THN DOXAN KAI THN TIMHN TWN EQNWN EISH AUTHN.
 for there is no night there. They bring  the glory and the honor of the nations into her.


To raise the issue, let me quote from  p.138-139, "The Theology of The book of
Revelation" by Richard Bauckham. 

 "It might be thought that the covenant people are the inhabitants of the New Jerusalem
itself (22:3b-5), while the nations and their kings live outside it and visit it (21:24-26). On this view, the eschatological blessings are shared with the nations, bu the
covenant people retain a privilege. But this view also fails to take seriously 
the implication of 21:3, which declares all the nations to be covenant
peoples. If the nations and the kings of the earth have to enter the city by its gates,
so do the Christian martyrs (22:14). The image conveys the full inclusion of the 
nations in the blessings of the covenant, not their partial exclusion."

I am very much sympathetic to this interpretation. But the problem  is that it does not
take into account the "aspects" of the verbs, PERIPATHSOUSIN, FEROUSIN, OISEOUSIN.


All three verbs seem to refer to habitual or repretitive events. The present tense 
FEROUSIN refer to the future because it is parallel to the future tense PERIPATHSOUSIN.
But both verbs do not seem to refer a one-time transaction. But Buckham's interpretation
seems to assume that  PERIPATHSOUSIN, FEROUSIN, OISEOUSIN refer to a one-time transaction or event. He thinks that 22:14 (TOIS PULWSIN EISELQWSIN EIS THS POLIN 
(by the gates, they may go into the city)) is comparable to PERIPATHSOUSIN, FEROUSIN, OISEOUSIN. But EISELQWSIN refers to a one-time transaction, whereas PERIPATHSOUSIN, FEROUSIN, OISEOUSIN refer to repetitive happenings. 

The present tense and the future tense are able to refer to one-time events or transactions. This is the case especially with the future tense, which does not
distinguish the "present aspect", "aorist aspect", "perfect aspect" in it. 
But can we apply it to PERIPATHSOUSIN, FEROUSIN, OISEOUSIN in the context of 
Rev 21"24- 26?

Moon Jung



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> Today's Topics:
> 
>    1. Re: Re: [B-Greek] Usage of Neuter Singular Article
>       (dhoxworth at charter.net)
>    2. Re: Re: [B-Greek] Usage of Neuter Singular Article
>       (Maurice A. O'Sullivan)
>    3. Re: Re: [B-Greek] Usage of Neuter Singular Article
>       (Carl W. Conrad)
>    4. greek concordance (Matthew Tennant)
>    5. Re: greek concordance (Jeffrey B. Gibson)
>    6. RE: greek concordance (Matthew Tennant)
>    7. RE: greek concordance (Philip Silouan Thompson)
>    8. Re: greek concordance (Jeffrey B. Gibson)
>    9. Re: Hebrews 10.14 (Steven Lo Vullo)
>   10. The Five Books of Moses: A Translation With Commentary 
>       (Maurice A. O'Sullivan)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:55:08 +0000
> From: 
> Subject: Re: Re: [B-Greek] Usage of Neuter Singular Article
> To: 
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> >
> >Doug, one fundamental fact about the use of the neuter article is that it can turn anything into a substantive equivalent of a noun.
> 
> 
> Thanks for your help Carl. I really appreciate it.
> 
> I sort of saw this in one grammar (I think it was Porter), but it didn't seem that they spent much time on it. What do grammars call this category/usage of the article? And how does this work with prepositional phrases?
> 
> Doug Hoxworth
> Luther Rice Seminary
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 18:59:49 +0100
> From: "Maurice A. O'Sullivan" 
> Subject: Re: Re: [B-Greek] Usage of Neuter Singular Article
> To: 
> Cc: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
> 
> At 17:55 24/09/2004, dhoxworth at charter.net wrote:
> 
> >sort of saw this in one grammar (I think it was Porter), but it didn't 
> >seem that they spent much time on it. What do grammars call this 
> >category/usage of the article?
> 
> It's the _combination_ of the infinitive and neuter article which matters here.
> 
> Daniel B. Wallace. in his: Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics - Exegetical 
> Syntax of the New Testament (Vol. 1, Page 600). Zondervan Publishing House 
> and Galaxie Software has this to say in his treatment of the various uses 
> of the infinitive:
> 
>  >>>
> II. Substantival Uses
> 
> There are four basic uses of the substantival infinitive: subject, direct 
> object, appositional, and epexegetical.  A specialized use of the direct 
> object is indirect discourse. But because it occurs so frequently, it will 
> be treated separately. Thus, pragmatically, there are five basic uses of 
> the substantival infinitive: subject, direct object, indirect discourse, 
> appositional, and epexegetical.  <<< 
> and he deals specifically with Phil. 1:21:
>  >>>
> For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain
> 
> These infinitives could also be translated as gerunds: 'living is Christ 
> and dying is gain.' This text illustrates two other points of Greek syntax: 
> (1) The subject has the article (in the first clause, since one of the 
> substantives has the article and the other is a proper noun [in Paul], what 
> determines the subject is word order); and (2) the tenses of the 
> infinitives are lexically informed. It is no accident that the first 
> infinitive is present ('to continue living') and the second is aorist ('to 
> die'). << 
> 
> 
> Maurice A. O'Sullivan  [ Bray, Ireland ]
> mauros at iol.ie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:27:58 -0400
> From: "Carl W. Conrad" 
> Subject: Re: Re: [B-Greek] Usage of Neuter Singular Article
> To: "Maurice A. O'Sullivan" 
> Cc: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> At 6:59 PM +0100 9/24/04, Maurice A. O'Sullivan wrote:
> >At 17:55 24/09/2004, dhoxworth at charter.net wrote:
> >
> >>sort of saw this in one grammar (I think it was Porter), but it didn't
> >>seem that they spent much time on it. What do grammars call this
> >>category/usage of the article?
> >
> >It's the _combination_ of the infinitive and neuter article which matters
> >here.
> 
> This is true, but it isn't only with verbs that the neuter article forms
> substantives; it can, as I stated yesterday, convert ANY word into a
> substantive --as was the case with the instances of TO hEN and TO AUTO in
> Phil 2:2 about which Dough asked originally.
> 
> Cf BDAG hO, hH, TO s.v. 2.b.Gamma:
> 	b.Gamma. The neut. of the adj. w. the art. can take on the mng. of
> an abstract noun (Thu. 1, 36, 1 to\ TO DEDIOS=fear; Herodian 1, 6, 9; 1,
> 11, 5 TO SEMNON THS PARQENOU; M. Ant. 1, 1; Just., D. 27, 2 DIA TO
> SKLHROKARDION hUMWN KAI ACARISTON EIS AUTON) TO CRHSTON TOU QEOU God's
> kindness Ro 2:4. TO DUNATON power 9:22. TO SUMFORON benefit 1 Cor 7:35. TO
> GNHSION genuineness 2 Cor 8:8. TO EPIEIKES Phil 4:5 al.
> 
> Aristotle's "categories of understanding" are formulated with neuter
> articles and the item in question: TO POION "quality" TO POSON "quantity"
> or TO PROS TI "relation" (lit. "the in-relation-to what"). A common
> Aristotelian phrase used to puzzle me when I first started reading
> Aristotle: TO TI/ HN EINAI "being what it was."
> 
> A common feature of Hellenistic Greek is the growing number of adverbs
> formed by prefacing the neuter article to adverbial phrases which may then
> be used themselves as adverbs (as was the case with TO hEN and TO AUTO in
> Phil 2:2): TO KAQ' hHMERAN "daily", TO KAQ' hOLOU "generally", TO KATA
> MEROS "partially."
> 
> So--yes, the articular infinitive itself is a wide-ranging grammatical
> category, the more so in Hellenistic than in earlier Greek, but the range
> of usage of the neuter article with phrases to form substantives of varied
> sorts is indeed extensive well beyond the articular infinitive.
> 
> >Daniel B. Wallace. in his: Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics - Exegetical
> >Syntax of the New Testament (Vol. 1, Page 600). Zondervan Publishing House
> >and Galaxie Software has this to say in his treatment of the various uses
> >of the infinitive:
> >
> > >>>
> >II. Substantival Uses
> >
> >There are four basic uses of the substantival infinitive: subject, direct
> >object, appositional, and epexegetical.  A specialized use of the direct
> >object is indirect discourse. But because it occurs so frequently, it will
> >be treated separately. Thus, pragmatically, there are five basic uses of
> >the substantival infinitive: subject, direct object, indirect discourse,
> >appositional, and epexegetical.  <<< >
> >and he deals specifically with Phil. 1:21:
> > >>>
> >For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain
> >
> >These infinitives could also be translated as gerunds: 'living is Christ
> >and dying is gain.' This text illustrates two other points of Greek syntax:
> >(1) The subject has the article (in the first clause, since one of the
> >substantives has the article and the other is a proper noun [in Paul], what
> >determines the subject is word order); and (2) the tenses of the
> >infinitives are lexically informed. It is no accident that the first
> >infinitive is present ('to continue living') and the second is aorist ('to
> >die'). << >
> >
> >
> >Maurice A. O'Sullivan  [ Bray, Ireland ]
> >mauros at iol.ie
> >
> >
> >---
> >B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek
> >B-Greek mailing list
> >B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> >http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek
> 
> -- 
> 
> Carl W. Conrad
> Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)
> 1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
> cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
> WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 17:35:27 -0400
> From: "Matthew Tennant" 
> Subject: [B-Greek] greek concordance
> To: 
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Does anyone recommend a specific exhaustive Greek concordance? What
> about English to Greek dictionaries? 
>  
> Thanks!
> Matt Tennant
> Whitakers, NC
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:55:20 -0500
> From: "Jeffrey B. Gibson" 
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] greek concordance
> To: matt at hickorybaptist.org
> Cc: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> 
> 
> Matthew Tennant wrote:
> 
> > Does anyone recommend a specific exhaustive Greek concordance?
> 
> Recommend it for what purpose?
> 
> Jeffrey Gibson
> --
> 
> Jeffrey B. Gibson, D.Phil. (Oxon.)
> 
> 1500 W. Pratt Blvd. #1
> Chicago, IL 60626
> 
> jgibson000 at comcast.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 6
> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 18:03:34 -0400
> From: "Matthew Tennant" 
> Subject: RE: [B-Greek] greek concordance
> To: "'Jeffrey B. Gibson'" 
> Cc: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"
> 
> I'm a first year Greek student, and I am learning about how different
> words used in different contexts in Greek are translated differently in
> English. I was thinking an exhaustive Greek concordance would allow me
> to see, using the lexical spelling, where else a word is used, how it is
> used, and in what context. 
> 
> Thank you, 
> Matt Tennant
> Whitakers, NC 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeffrey B. Gibson [mailto:jgibson000 at comcast.net] 
> Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 5:55 PM
> To: matt at hickorybaptist.org
> Cc: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] greek concordance
> 
> 
> 
> Matthew Tennant wrote:
> 
> > Does anyone recommend a specific exhaustive Greek concordance?
> 
> Recommend it for what purpose?
> 
> Jeffrey Gibson
> --
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 7
> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:00:24 -0700
> From: "Philip Silouan Thompson" 
> Subject: RE: [B-Greek] greek concordance
> To: 
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Matt Tennant wrote:
> > Does anyone recommend a specific exhaustive Greek concordance?
> > What about English to Greek dictionaries?
> 
> You might be interested in the "Englishman's Greek Concordance" by George V.
> Wigram. http://tinyurl.com/55xt5
> 
> Christianbook.com says, "Every Greek word in the New Testament is listed in
> Greek alphabetical order, along with a brief rendering in English of every
> verse in which that word appears. One major improvement: each Greek word is
> defined so you can compare its various English translations. Entries are
> coded to Strong's Concordance for additional assistance."
> 
> Wigram's Greek and Hebrew concordances, with Strong's word numbers, allow a
> person with minimal Greek or Hebrew skills to do word studies from a
> different perspective. Of course, as with any concordance, you can't just
> say "This word is used or defined in the following ways so all these
> meanings are interchangeable." (Without an interpretative tradition - or at
> least a couple of good commentaries - you get some scary results that way.)
> 
> Enjoy,
> 
> Silouan Thompson
> Walla Walla, Washington
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 8
> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 19:37:54 -0500
> From: "Jeffrey B. Gibson" 
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] greek concordance
> To: matt at hickorybaptist.org
> Cc: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> 
> 
> Matthew Tennant wrote:
> 
> > I'm a first year Greek student, and I am learning about how different
> > words used in different contexts in Greek are translated differently in
> > English. I was thinking an exhaustive Greek concordance would allow me
> > to see, using the lexical spelling, where else a word is used, how it is
> > used, and in what context.
> 
> Well, I would avoid Strong's.  The English equivalents it gives you are not
> only those which translators in 1611 thought were appropriate for the Greek
> text they were working with, but are often words which are either
> obsolete/archaic or which are used with a meaning other than that with which
> a particular English word is used nowadays.
> 
> Yours,
> 
> Jeffrey Gibson
> 
> --
> 
> Jeffrey B. Gibson, D.Phil. (Oxon.)
> 
> 1500 W. Pratt Blvd. #1
> Chicago, IL 60626
> 
> jgibson000 at comcast.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 9
> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 21:05:09 -0500
> From: Steven Lo Vullo 
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Hebrews 10.14
> To: Morgan Powell 
> Cc: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
> 
> On Sep 23, 2004, at 10:12 AM, Morgan Powell wrote:
> 
> > I was wondering about the translation of TOUS hAGIAZOMENOUS in hebrews 
> > 10:14.
> > I notice the nasb gives it has "those who are sanctified."
> > the niv gives "those being made holy" which would capture the 
> > continuous sense of the present ptcple.
> > I note also that just 4 verses earlier in hebrews 10:10 we find 
> > hHGIASMENOI - a perfect passive participle - been sanctified.
> > Is there any justification for the present participle being translated 
> > with a perfect sense?
> 
> Note, though, that in 10.14 we have a substantival participle, but in 
> 10.10 a periphrastic construction with ESMEN, which functions as a 
> perfect passive indicative.
> ============
> 
> Steven Lo Vullo
> Madison, WI
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 10
> Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 15:18:31 +0100
> From: "Maurice A. O'Sullivan" 
> Subject: [B-Greek] The Five Books of Moses: A Translation With
> 	Commentary 
> To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
> 
> Although this long review, obviously, is not of immediate interest to the 
> list, it does contains some important thoughts on the Bible as literature, 
> and   also on translation.
> 
> Anyway, judge for yourselves!
> 
> The Five Books of Moses: A Translation With Commentary
> By Robert Alter (W.W. Norton, 1,064 pp.,)
> 
> is reviewed by Cynthia Ozick in this week's "The New Republic"
> 
> http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=20041004&s=ozick100404
> 
> Maurice A. O'Sullivan  [ Bray, Ireland ]
> mauros at iol.ie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> End of B-Greek Digest, Vol 21, Issue 26
> ***************************************
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


Moon R. Jung
Associate Professor
Dept of Media Technology
Graduate School of Media Comm
Sogang Univ, Seoul, Korea





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