[B-Greek] Luke 22:70 & 23:3 'you say'?

Harold R. Holmyard III hholmyard at ont.com
Thu Aug 11 13:19:43 EDT 2005


Dear Carl,

>>>>HH: An earlier precedent in the context of Christ's last days is:
>>>>
>>>>Matt. 26:25 ¶ Then Judas, the one who would
>>>>betray him, said,  "Surely not I, Rabbi?" ¶ Jesus
>>>>answered,  "Yes, it is you."
>>>>
>>>>HH: The words "Yes, it is you" in Greek are SU EIPAS: "You have said (it)."
>>>>
>>>
>>>While some might do so, I'm not sure that
>>>everybody would accept this as a legitimate
>>>"precedent" for the usage in Lk 22:70 and 23:3.
>>>
>>
>>HH: I don't understand what you mean. Could you please explain?
>
>(1) The claim that it MEANS "Yes, it is you." is 
>not one that everyone will buy; that's certainly 
>not what the Greek text actually says; this is 
>an interpretation. Unquestionably it is similar, 
>but as Iver has argued in his own response on 
>this question, there are different ways of 
>making sense of "You say so" or "You have said 
>so."

HH: I see. Jesus said, "You have said." And it 
was Judas. But I suppose one could argue that 
Jesus was saying, "You have said that it surely 
is not you," with His tone implying, "But is that 
really true?"

>(2) There are some hermeneutical and 
>historico-critical assumptions involved here 
>also that certainly aren't matters of general 
>consensus among B-Greekers: Luke's dependency 
>upon Matthew's text (Lucan priority), among 
>others. We don't discuss these matters on 
>B-Greek, but an assertion made on the basis of 
>assumptions that aren't shared is not going to 
>convince those with different assumptions.

HH: I was not asserting Luke's dependence on 
Matthew. I don't know about that. I said it was a 
precedent in the context of Jesus' life. The 
words occur in a Gospel; they occur before the 
events in Luke. Jesus says them.
					Yours,
					Harold Holmyard




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