[B-Greek] James 2:18

Ben-mandy Pehrson ben-mandy_pehrson at sil.org
Sat Aug 13 17:24:01 EDT 2005


Dear A.D. Riddle, 

If you take the objector's words to include v.19, could you then explain how James's response in v.20 relates to what the objector has just said?  I'm stumped.

Someone might be able to make a (weak) argument that the objector's speech includes v.18b, but v.19 seems a very far stretch.

The main problems with your suggestion, or even including v.18b in the objection, are:

(1) you force a supposed rhetorical pattern to apply too rigidly in an instance where the content just does not fit the discourse structure

(2) other harsh vocatives and hypothetical opponents occur in the letter of James without the other (see James 4:4, 4:8[2x] for harsh vocatives that do not follow a quotation; see James 1:13, 2:16, 4:13 for "hypothetical" speech without a following harsh vocative)

(3) the TIS "someone" in 2:18a is no longer an objector if you take the whole of v. 18 or vv.18-19 as representing a single viewpoint, (since this viewpoint is quite in line with what James says in the surrounding context about faith and works going together)

(4) we would not expect something so in line with what James said in vs. 17 to begin with ALL' ("but")

(5) introductory formulae like ALL' EREI TIS are normally used to introduce an opposing viewpoint

Peter Davids uses the references you cite in his commentary to make quite a different point than you are trying to make.  He writes:

The initial clause, "But someone will say," obviously introduces some type of imaginary interlocutor into the situation, a typical device of a homiletic style. The style predisposes the reader to view this person as a hostile or erring voice, for it is in this way that Paul uses the clause (1 Cor. 15:35 and similarly Rom. 9:19; 11:19; Lk. 4:23) and also other Greek writers (Jos. War 8:363; 4 Macc. 2:24; Barn. 9:6; Xen. Cyr. 4.3.10), and of course the Stoics.

So I would like to know how vv.18-19 can be taken as hostile or erring when viewed as a unit.

Blessings,
Ben


-----Original Message-----
From: b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of A.D. Riddle
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 3:12 PM
To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: [B-Greek] James 2:18

It is more likely that the objector's words include v.19 too. James begins his response to the objector with W ANQRWPE. This follows a fairly clear rhetorical formula where (1) an objector is introduced with something like "One might say" or "it might be said," and then (2) the author begins his response with a sharp epithet such as "You fool" or "O man."

Cf. especially Matt. 23:16-19; Rom. 9:19-20; 1 Cor. 15:35-36
Other examples include 4 Macc. 2:24-3:1; Epictetus, Discourses 2.16; Josephus, War 3.361 [3.8§5]

A.D. Riddle
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