[B-Greek] local dative Col 1:16

kgraham0938 at comcast.net kgraham0938 at comcast.net
Tue Dec 27 19:51:43 EST 2005


Hey Dr.Conrad, yes I normally took it to be "by means of him." (sorry about the Nun)   Here is the weird thing, BDF says on page 107 $199

"The dative of place, which is already extremely limited in the classical period, is missing from the NT (apart from sterotyped KUKLWi & CAMAI;.)"

Then when discussing EV on page 117, $ 219, (1) Col 1:16 EN AUTWi EKTISQH - DI AUTOU EKTISTAI originally not instrumental.

What do you think BDF is refering too here in regards to what it originally was?  

--
Kelton Graham 
KGRAHAM0938 at comcast.net

-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: "Carl W. Conrad" <cwconrad2 at mac.com> 

> EN does normally take a locative dative. 
> 
> On Tuesday, December 27, 2005, at 06:41PM, wrote: 
> 
> >Hey I just came across something interesting in BDAG, the argue that 
> > 
> >hOTI EV AUTWi EKTISQH TA PANTA EN TOIS OURANOIS should be considered a local 
> dative since EN AUTWi would otherwise be identical with DI AUTOS. 
> 
> Might I ask for consistent use of "N" for Nu? We seem frequently to get a 
> hodge-podge of V and N; here we have a preponderance of N but one V. 
> 
> >I always took it as a instrumental dative. 
> 
> Do you understand the sense to be "by (means of) him?" But you don't normally 
> get an instrumental dative to express agent. That is, the instrumental dative 
> normally is used of an impersonal causal factor. 
> 
> I think I would understand EN AUTWi in much the same way as we understand the 
> phrase EN CRISTWi: it indicates the focal point. 
> 
> 
> Carl W. Conrad 
> Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus) 
> 1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243 
> cwconrad2 at mac.com 
> WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/ 
> --- 
> B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek 
> B-Greek mailing list 
> B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org 
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek 


More information about the B-Greek mailing list