[B-Greek] local dative Col 1:16
kgraham0938 at comcast.net
kgraham0938 at comcast.net
Tue Dec 27 19:51:43 EST 2005
Hey Dr.Conrad, yes I normally took it to be "by means of him." (sorry about the Nun) Here is the weird thing, BDF says on page 107 $199
"The dative of place, which is already extremely limited in the classical period, is missing from the NT (apart from sterotyped KUKLWi & CAMAI;.)"
Then when discussing EV on page 117, $ 219, (1) Col 1:16 EN AUTWi EKTISQH - DI AUTOU EKTISTAI originally not instrumental.
What do you think BDF is refering too here in regards to what it originally was?
--
Kelton Graham
KGRAHAM0938 at comcast.net
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Carl W. Conrad" <cwconrad2 at mac.com>
> EN does normally take a locative dative.
>
> On Tuesday, December 27, 2005, at 06:41PM, wrote:
>
> >Hey I just came across something interesting in BDAG, the argue that
> >
> >hOTI EV AUTWi EKTISQH TA PANTA EN TOIS OURANOIS should be considered a local
> dative since EN AUTWi would otherwise be identical with DI AUTOS.
>
> Might I ask for consistent use of "N" for Nu? We seem frequently to get a
> hodge-podge of V and N; here we have a preponderance of N but one V.
>
> >I always took it as a instrumental dative.
>
> Do you understand the sense to be "by (means of) him?" But you don't normally
> get an instrumental dative to express agent. That is, the instrumental dative
> normally is used of an impersonal causal factor.
>
> I think I would understand EN AUTWi in much the same way as we understand the
> phrase EN CRISTWi: it indicates the focal point.
>
>
> Carl W. Conrad
> Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)
> 1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
> cwconrad2 at mac.com
> WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
> ---
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