[B-Greek] Purpose Clause

Beata Urbanek baurbanek at op.pl
Fri Feb 25 06:52:11 EST 2005


There's an example of hINA clause used as result-clause in John 9:2:
RABBI TIS hHMARTEN hOUTOS H hOI GONEIS AUTOU hINA TYFLOS GENNHQH
and surely the "result" was manifested.

Genarally, I think you are being more a theologian than a B-Greeker here.

Beata Urbanek

PS. Could we possibly have your full name?



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Muzi" <MBTMUZ001 at mail.uct.ac.za>
To: "Carl W. Conrad" <cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu>;
<B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 12:06 PM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Purpose Clause


>
> Thank you Carl for your response. But somehow my question has not been
> answered. Let me also add this example: "We were therefore buried with
> him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised
> from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new
> life." (Rom 6:4, NIV). Is it NECESSARY to see the new life being
> actually MANIFESTED (changed behaviour) for this case? Or the new life
> is achieved by virtue of having the Holy Spirit dwelling in us and not
> necessarily by visible actions? Theologically, I think this is very
> close to Rom 8:9, "You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature
> but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you...". Here Paul uses
> the first conditional clause to assure belivers that they are not
> controlled by the sinful nature but by the Spirit.
> So in short MUST the result be MANIFESTED or just be assumed to be true
> even if they can't be seen?
>
> "Carl W. Conrad" wrote:
> >
> > At 9:18 AM +0200 2/25/05, Muzi wrote:
> > >Dear all
> > >
> > >I have difficulty with the purpose clause in regard to it's results.
> > >Before posing my question I'll give views that have confused me. From
> > >these views I'll then pick the things that confuse me in asking the
> > >question.
> > >
> > >Collin Smith, an associate of Dr James White on White's AOMIN website,
> > >explains it with an example. The example is "... we have believed in
> > >Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified ..." (Gal 2:16, NASB). Collin
> > >says, "Paul, by using the subjunctive, is not intending to communicate
> > >any kind of uncertainty with regard to justification.  Rather, by using
> > >the subjunctive in a hina clause, he is proclaiming that our faith in
> > >Christ has its purpose in our justification, and also has its end
result
> > >in our justification."
> > >
> > >However, a footnote in Dr Charlie Bing's Lordship Salvation
dissertation
> > >(Ch 2) quotes Ernest De Witt Burton as saying "There is no certain,
> > >scarcely a probable, instance in the New Testament of a clause
> > >introduced by hina denoting actual result conceived of as such." The
> > >footnote comes with Charlie's discussion of Eph 2:10 (For we are God's
> > >workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God
> > >prepared in advance for us to do.)
> > >
> > >Corey Keating at http://www.ntgreek.org/ says the following
> > >
> > >a) The 'purpose clause' (a dependent clause) is used to show the
purpose
> > >or intention of the action of the main verb in the sentence (in the
> > >independent clause). This construction is meant to show intention, not
> > >to state whether something actually happens or not.
> > >
> > >b) The purpose clause answers the question "Why?" or "For what
reason?",
> > >rather than "What?".
> > >
> > >c) The conjunction that precedes the subjunctive verb (usually i{na or
> > >o{pw") is translated "in order that" or possibly "that".  For the sake
> > >of clarity, it is probably best translated "in order that".
> > >
> > >d) If the subjunctive mood is used in a 'purpose' (or in a 'result')
> > >clause, then the action should not be thought of as a possible result,
> > >but should be viewed as the stated outcome that will happen (or has
> > >happened) as a result of another stated action.  The use of the
> > >subjunctive is not to indicate that something 'may' or 'might' result
> > >from a given action, but it is stating the 'purpose of' or 'reason for'
> > >an action.
> > >
> > >e) The subjunctive mood in a purpose clause actually functions more
like
> > >a verb in the indicative mood rather than in the optative mood.  It is
> > >not stating the possibility or probability of an action, but instead
> > >telling the intention of the primary action.
> > >
> > >My Confusion
> > >
> > >Collins seems to that the result is realised. Theologically I agree
with
> > >him as far as Gal 2:16 is concerned. However, grammatically I'm still
> > >confused.
> > >
> > >Burton seems to say that the result is not realised.
> > >
> > >Keating seems to say that the realisation of result is not important
> > >(a). I understand (d) as saying that whether or not we see the result
we
> > >should take it as having been fulfilled.
> > >
> > >QUESTION
> > >
> > >Is the realisation (actuality) of result important or not important?
> > >Should we take it as having been fulfilled even though we don't see it?
> >
> > Of course the realization or result is important, but the hINA +
> > subjunctive clause in NT Koine Greek may be used in ways that do NOT
> > necessarily indicate PURPOSE; it may indicate RESULT; it may even be
used
> > as a substantive clause.
> >
> > However the hINA clause in Gal 2:16 is pretty clearly certainly is a
> > purpose clause. I think that some of your sources referred to above are
> > bringing theology to bear instead of or even prior to resolving the
> > questions concerning the Greek construction. I would agree with the
Burton
> > and Keating accounts that you cite, that the hINA clause of PURPOSE,
> > indicates the INTENTION accounting for the action of the verb on which
the
> > hINA clause depends.
> > --
> >
> > Carl W. Conrad
> > Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)
> > 1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
> > cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
> > WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
> ---
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