FW: [B-Greek] John 8:58 PPA???
Charles Rempel
CharlesR at mygalaxyexpress.com
Sat Jan 15 11:52:43 EST 2005
Hi Kelton,
Just my 2¢ worth. I always liked drawing the line to illustrate the verb and
the present tense is a straight line without reference to the beginning
point or end point. The prepositional phrase just gives you an extent
through which the present tense is currently existing. The classification of
the verb relative to the rest of the sentence is just our way of trying to
explain Greek so others understand. If Deduhn's explanation communicates
accurately for you then it works. Likewise I might call it an eternally
durable present. Is that legitimate? If scholars pick it apart and it
survives, then it is viable. But I doubt that John was thinking, "This is a
present of past action." when he wrote the phrase. Nor do I think that Jesus
was thinking that terminology, either.
Charles D. Rempel
30 year student
Without Portfolio
-----Original Message-----
From: b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org]On Behalf Of Carl W. Conrad
Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2005 8:29 AM
To: George F Somsel
Cc: kgraham0938 at comcast.net; b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] John 8:58 PPA???
At 9:11 AM -0500 1/15/05, George F Somsel wrote:
>On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 13:55:32 +0000 kgraham0938 at comcast.net writes:
>> There is a guy named Jason Beduhn currently debating with Rob Bowman
>> on the issue of John 8:58 right now. His view is that John 8:58 is
>> a PPA. (present of Past Action still in progress).
>>
>> He also argues that saying Before Abraham was I AM was bad english.
>>
>> But since this is a greek chat room, does anyone here think John
>> 8:58 could be a PPA??
>>
>> --
>> Kelton Graham
>> KGRAHAM0938 at comcast.net
>___________________________
>
>Would you care to explain what that means? It sounds like the
>description of a perfect.
There are idiomatic present-tense forms with perfective force: hHKW ("I'm
here = I have arrived"), ERREI ("he's gone"--"flown the coop"). But what
this text really comes closest to in Greek is the usage of ESTI in
Parmenides in an existential sense: "it exists"--and therefore one cannot
talk of it having come into existence or existing in the future--"Being" is
without beginning and without end. I mention this not to inaugurate a
discussion with Parmenides or to suggest any influence, but simply to note
what might be a grammatical parallel.
--
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)
1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
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