[B-Greek] How do you Read Mark 7:2 and 7:3

George F Somsel gfsomsel at juno.com
Fri Jun 10 09:53:47 EDT 2005


On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 04:56:16 -0700 (PDT) Richard Richmond
<rickr2889 at yahoo.com> writes:
> 
> How do you read? 
> 
> the translation of these verses has often been the subject of much 
> debate. There are two items in particular that draw attention to 
> these two verses. The first has to do with the loaves or breads. 
> Many have seen the word as insignificant to the passage. The RSV for 
> example leaves ARTOUS out of the English translation completely. The 
> KJV includes the word but drops the definite article in translation 
> (not an uncommon practice for translators).  Manuscript Evidence 
> strongly supports the text below including the loaves accompanied by 
> the definite article. Some would say that the loaves are critical to 
> the text as they indicate some sort of ritual perhaps a Eucharist. I 
> am interested in comments on  the text of these two verses 
> 
> Mark 7:2
> 
> KAI  IDONTES  TINAS TWN  MAQHTWN  AUTOU  hOTI  KOINAIS  CERSIN  TOUT 
>  ESTIN 
> 
> And seeing some of the disciples of him that with  common   hands    
>              (this is 
> 
> ANIPTOIS  ESQIOUSIN  TOUS  ARTOUS 
> 
> unwashed) they eat the loaves
> 
>  
> 
> The second issue has to do with the use of PUGMHi to describe the 
> washing. Traditionally in the Greek language the word is used in two 
> ways: First and foremost as “boxing” and secondly as a measurement 
> from hand to elbow.  I am sure that the usage broadened over time as 
> with all languages.  It seems to me that understanding these verses 
> is critical to understanding the narrative of this unique encounter. 
>  
> 
> Rick Richmond   rickr2889 at yahoo.com
> 
>  
> 
> Mark 7:3
> 
> hOI GAR FARISAIOI KAI PANTES hOI IOUDAIOI EAN MH PUGMHi NIYWNTAI TAS 
> CEIRAS 
> 
> for the Pharisees and all the Jews unless with the fists they wash 
> the hands
> 
> OUK  ESQIOUSIN  KRATOUNTES  THN  PARADOSIN  TWN  PRESBUTERWN 
> 
> eat not holding the tradition of the elders
> 
> a personal note is there a way to receive your own posts on this 
> list? I never see what I have posted.
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On the verses Mk 7.2 & 3 you need to go back to chapter 6 where there is
the account of the loaves and fishes (shouldn't that be "fish"? -- Oh
well, as Tevya would say, "Tradition!").  There are two things that might
be said regarding the use of the article: 

1) The article is used when referring to something which has already been
mentioned or which is known to the reader (hence the pericope of the
loaves & fishes).

2) I am not completely sure of this since I haven't investigated it
carefully, but I think there is a tendency to use the article with ARTOS
when it is used of food in general and to not use the article when it
refers specifically to bread.  There would, of course, be exceptions to
this if it is referring to specific loaves of bread.
 
My personal inclination is to take these incidents as referring to the
Eucharist, but your mileage may differ since this is not an issue of the
Greek of the text but interpretation.

george
gfsomsel
___________



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