[B-Greek] Rom. 1:17
Carl W. Conrad
cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Thu Mar 3 10:14:29 EST 2005
At 8:29 AM -0600 3/3/05, Charles Rempel wrote:
>At 3:01 AM -0600 3/2/05, Charles Rempel wrote:
>
>>I see EK PISTEWS as "saving faith", the one time act of volition wherein
>the
>>unsaved is justified, Romans 3:28. And EIS PISTIN as "living faith", i.e.,
>>the righteous who has already been justified, must live by it. I would
>agree
>>with the idea that living faith would cover the idea of ever increasing
>>levels.
>
>While this is intelligible and just may be right, I think it ought to be
>admitted that there's no way to derive this sense from the Greek
>construction itself; i.e. this interpretation is speculative.
>
>Carl W. Conrad
>
>Charles:
>
>In Romans 1:16 we have the phrase EIS SWTHRIAN PANTI TW PISTEUONTI. In
>Ephesians 2:8 it is stated ESTE SESWSMENOI DIA PISTEWS. These two phrases
>speak of the same event. And thus I have classified this as "saving faith."
>In Romans 1:17 we have O DE DIKAIOS EK PISTEWS ZHSETAI. This I have
>classified as "living faith."
>
>If all we are determining is that the text says EK PISTEWS EIS PISTIN, "out
>of faith into faith" then I wonder if I am the only one violating B-Greek
>protocol. I believe that part of the analysis of the text is the
>categorization of terms. In Romans 8 when one looks at the word PNEUMA one
>must discriminate between usages by means of context. When Paul uses the
>phrases AUTO TO PNEUMA and TW PNEUMATI HMWN (v.16) we easily classify these
>as two different entities. When we classify BAPTISMA as Spirit baptism
>verses John's baptism as being two distinctive events, are we not doing so
>based upon the Greek text?
>
>Please enlighten me as to my faulty logic and procedure.
Charles, I don't disagree with anything you've said in the second paragraph
above. However, your statement yesterday--the first paragraph cited above
from your message of 3/2/05 seems to me to involve a conception of a
general NT "doctrine" about PISTIS that goes beyond anything that the text
of Rom 1:17 clearly indicates. Moreover, if you check the archives of this
list, you'll find that the meaning of this phrase EK PISTEWS EIS PISTIN in
this text has been the repeated topic of discussion and that several
understandings of what the phrase means have been enunciated over the
years. That is why I wrote what I did: that your understanding of the
phrase may very well be right, but there are alternative accountings of the
phrase offered by others, and if the phrase were generally understood to
the satisfaction of all, the question of what it really means would not
continue to be asked from time to time in this forum.
--
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)
1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
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