[B-Greek] ARSENOKOITHS: Did I get this right?

Jason Broander broander at gmail.com
Mon Mar 14 23:29:15 EST 2005


I'm not going to get into the discussion of the meaning of this word, 
but simply would like to comment that your attitude it just as polemical 
as what you accuse your interlocutors of.  The way to have a 
conversation on this would be to explain your arguments and not get 
outraged.  I personally would like it if difficult to understand words 
were discussed here; I joined the list to debate and learn, not to have 
argument stifled because one party or another gets upset because they 
heard words they didn't like.

I hope this thread stays open, but with more decorum in the future.

Jason Broander

Joseph Weaks wrote:

>
>> On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 16:19:08 -0500 Jonathan Robie
>> <jonathan.robie at datadirect.com> writes:
>>
>>> ...someone on another list who claimed that ARSENOKOITHS is an 
>>> obscure word, whose meaning is not
>>> certain, but probably refers to some kind of male prostitute.
>>
>
> However, I tend to be skeptical of someone who professes simplicity 
> where others have found complexity. Any word that occurs twice in the 
> biblical record deserves some status of tentativeness. It is the 
> questionable practice of offering easy answers to what are difficult 
> questions.
>
>>> BDAG indicates when a word's meaning is obscure, but it does not do
>>> that here.
>>
>
> This skirts the issue. It is a masquerade for the true topic, namely, 
> the texts of 1Co 6:9 and 1Ti 1:10 and whether the church can justify a 
> doctrine of exclusion based upon same sex attraction and/or lifestyle. 
> The lexical, morphological identification of a form is only one 
> step... words don't have meanings, they have uses.
>
>>> ...First, let's remember that our thinking may be different form that
>>> of the first century...
>>
>
> There's no "may" about it. They were ignorant about so much of human 
> nature then. As we are now.
>
>>> ... Most of the people who
>>> disagree with what you would find in standard scholarly works seem 
>>> to be
>>> advocates, and they seem to be rehashing arguments of Boswell,
>>> arguments that have been refuted pretty strongly in the articles I
>>> mention above and other places, and which no longer get much
>>> credence on the biblical Greek mailing lists that I've participated on.
>>
>
> I hope I'm misunderstanding you when you say "advocates", that it is 
> something other than the horrible accusation that those of use who 
> read the text differently are just blinding ourselves because we are 
> gay advocates. An appeal to the bulk of the evidence that surrounds 
> you only testifies to the voices you choose to expose yourself to. 
> Your characterization of "the state of things" is a straw man. Surely, 
> if you are to be so bold as to bring up such a controversial topic in 
> B-Greek, you should go to lengths to represent both sides in a fair 
> way. It's not hard to find good stuff. My files are not accessible at 
> the moment; I know D. Balch edited a book that has fair chapters 
> dedicated to the issue.
>
> On Mar 14, 2005, at 6:34 PM, George F Somsel wrote:
>
>> I think the difference in length of the two articles s.v. 
>> ARSENOKOITHS in
>> BAGD and BDAG is accounted for by the rise to prominence of the
>> homosexual agenda ...
>
>
> You have GOT to be kidding me? Go to B-Greek-Fundies before you start 
> using such polemical terms in this forum, please.
>
>> ...If I understood your sometimes Byzantine twists, you finally 
>> arrive at
>> the conclusion that the word refers to one who engages in homosexual 
>> acts
>> rather than simply to one who functions as a cult prostitute.
>
>
> It is a biased and diabolical step to draw such a conclusion that a 
> particular lexical meaning excludes an intentionally specific usage, 
> displaying a linguistical ignorance that neither of you would fall 
> prey to were we talking about a word that referred to cutting down a 
> trees, and whether or not the author was specifically referring to the 
> practice of using an axe. Once you have arrived a range of lexical 
> meanings, it is still the usage of a word that has any real relevance. 
> A word for "chair" in a given context can be talking about a very 
> specific type of chair.
>
> I think it is quite likely that discussions of hot bed words simply 
> can not take place on B-Greek, for it appears to one that the other 
> begins their process with minds made up long before you begin your 
> arguments.
>
> Be that as it may, I refuse to concede that exclusionary, loaded, 
> ostracizing, hateful, hurtful phrases such as "homosexual agenda" are 
> acceptable on this forum.
>
> In hopes that we can reconcile,
> Joe Weaks
>
> ---
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>


-- 
Jason A. Broander

3rd Year Undergrad,
University of Chicago




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