[B-Greek] 1st John 2:22

Carl W. Conrad cwconrad at ioa.com
Tue Nov 1 14:58:54 EST 2005


OK, I'll yield on this but it would appear that the doubling of the  
negation here is not of the same kind as the doubling in, say, that  
in John 15:5 CWRIS EMOU OU DUNASQE POIEIN OUDEN (which was  
translated, so I have read somewhere, in some Old Latin version as  
SINE ME NON POTESTIS NIHIL FACERE, a rendering that completely  
reverses the meaning).
And the idiom is different from that of FHMI and OU FHMI. I note that  
the usage of ARNEOMAI in the GNT often is followed by a participle of  
LEGW with a negative statement of citation. Is it possible that  
Semitism underlies this? I ask because I have no idea whether that's  
a possibility.


On Nov 1, 2005, at 2:39 PM, Elizabeth Kline wrote:

> See BDF # 429:
>
> "MH [OUK] is used after verbs denoting a negative idea ... a
> redundant usage by the canons of English, German etc." "1Jn 2:22 hO
> ARNOUMENOS hOTI IHSOUS OUK ESTIN hO CRISTOS (like Dem. 9:54 ARNH. hWS
> OUK EISI TOIOUTOI)."
> See also Westcott Epistles of John.
>
> Elizabeth Kline
>
> On Nov 1, 2005, at 10:17 AM, Carl W. Conrad wrote:
>
>
>> But on the other hand,
>> On Nov 1, 2005, at 11:01 AM, Elizabeth Kline wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Nov 1, 2005, at 6:51 AM, kgraham0938 at comcast.net wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> What does BDAG means when it says on pg 132 of APNEOMAI.
>>>>
>>>> 1 Jn 2:22 w. hOTI foll. : a. hOTI 'IHS. OUK ESTIN hO CHRISTOS
>>>> " the neg. is redundant as Demosth 9, 54...."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Demosthenes Orat., Philippica 3, Sect. 54, l. 7
>>> ...  hWN OUD AN ARNHQEIEN ENIOI hWS OUK
>>> EISI TOIOUTOI, LEGEIN KELEUETE ...
>>>
>>> ARNHQEIEN is a negative so to follow it with OUK makes a double
>>> negative which causes problems for English readers.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> On the other hand, the clause in question (OUK EISIN TOIOUTOI) is
>> here introduced by hWS, which functions pretty much as does hOTI to
>> introduce a noun clause stating a proposition, so that the
>> Demosthenes text reads, essentially, "some of whom would not even
>> dispute it, insisting "they are not like that ..."
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
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Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)
1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
cwconrad2 at mac.com
WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/




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