[B-Greek] 1st John 2:22

Richard Ghilardi qodeshlayhvh at juno.com
Tue Nov 1 23:48:40 EST 2005


Hello Folks,

Well if Dr. Conrad can yield on this, I certainly can too! Besides, who
am I to hold out against the likes of ATR, BDF and Smyth? I have no doubt
that there are negatives in the GNT which are unnecessary (i.e., from an
English speaker's perspective) and untranslatable. I J 2:22 appears to be
a case in point. Still, no one has yet been able to cite a parallel verse
from the GNT where the redundant negative is found in a hOTI (or hWS)
clause introduced by a verb which is semantically negative, like
ARNOUMAI. Dr. Conrad rightly points out that J 15:5 is not analogous
because, though both verses contain multiple negatives, in the Gospel the
negative is REPEATED stengthening the negation. (A repeated negative may
also serve to reverse the negation and so make a positive statement.) But
in the Letter the OUK is MERELY redundant: it serves neither to
strengthen nor to reverse the statement. These two categories of multiple
negatives must be clearly distinguished: Repeated negatives and Redundant
negatives. Hansen and Quinn clearly distinguish them, Greek: An Intensive
Course, p. 774. But I wonder if a good parallel can be found in the LXX?
I would like to hear what Dr. Pietersma has to say about this.

Yours in His grace,

Richard Ghilardi - qodeshlayhvh at juno.com
New Haven, Connecticut USA

==================================================

On Tue, 1 Nov 2005 20:43:15 -0500 Carl W.Conrad <cwconrad at ioa.com>
writes:
> 
> On Nov 1, 2005, at 3:54 PM, Elizabeth Kline wrote:
> 
> >
> > On Nov 1, 2005, at 11:58 AM, Carl W. Conrad wrote:
> >
> >> OK, I'll yield on this but it would appear that the doubling of 
> the
> >> negation here is not of the same kind as the doubling in, say, 
> that
> >> in John 15:5 CWRIS EMOU OU DUNASQE POIEIN OUDEN ...
> >
> > I would agree that this is not a "surface structure" syntactical
> > double negative since the first negation is tied up with the 
> lexical
> > semantics of the verb.  ATR page 1164 "There is one instance of OU 
> in
> > indirect discourse where it is pleonastic according to the 
> classic
> > idiom ... 1st John 2:22." However BDF #429 finds this idiom 
> classical
> > supported by K-G (? some german  work).
> >
> > "... negatives which appear commonly in subordinate constructions
> > following upon a verb of negative meaning ..." (67.12.2 Attic 
> Greek
> > Prose Syntax)
> 
> The reference is to Kühner-Gerth, the 1898 edition of which is on  
> line at the Perseus web-site, but I can't find this reference. In 
> any  
> case, what you've cited from BDF concerns negatives with infinitives 
>  
> (§429). I don't find in BDF any discussion of the sort of  
> construction we have here in 1 John 2:22.
> 
> LSJ (s.v. ARNEOMAI): 4. in expressing denial, c. inf., either 
> without  
> MH, deny that . . , A.Eu.611, E.IA966; or with MH, say that . .  
> not . . , Ar.Eq.572, Antipho 3.3.7, etc.; OUD' AUTOS ARNEITAI MH  
> OU . . D.C.50.22; also OUK AN ARNOIMHN TO hORAN S.Ph.118; A. hOTI  
> OU ..., hWS OU ..., X.Ath.2.17, Lys. 4.1, D.9.54.
> 
> Smyth §2743 states the matter most clearly: "After DENY, SPEAK  
> AGAINST, DOUBT, etc., followed by hWS or hOTI, a redundant OU is  
> often inserted. Thus, hWS MEN OUK ALHQH TAUT' ESTIN, OUC hEXET'  
> ANTILEGEIN -- 'that this is true you will not be able to deny" D. 
> 8:31.
> Note a follows: "here the hWS clause is an internal accusative  
> (accusative of content) after ANTILEGEIN. Originally the meaning  
> seems to have been 'you will not be able to deny in this way -- this 
>  
> is not true' where OU is redundant."
> 
> 
> Carl W. Conrad
> Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)
> 1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
> cwconrad2 at mac.com
> WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
> 
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