[B-Greek] Matt 24:5 Direct or Indirect Discourse
Daveat168 at aol.com
Daveat168 at aol.com
Sat Oct 22 19:14:24 EDT 2005
<<Glenden Riddle <glendenpriddle at yahoo.com>
Fri Oct 21 17:16:57 EDT 2005
"Can anyone see any way possible that those saying, EGW EIMI hO CRISTOS,
in Matt 24:5 could be teachers saying that Jesus is the Messiah, and
they do
believe that, but they lead people away from the truth of God's Word
due to
self-deception or ignorance.
"It seems to me that to take the verse this way would require taking
the Greek
following the participle LEGONTES as indirect discourse. It would
also require
taking the verb PLANAW as unintentionally leading someone down the wrong
path rather than a conscious attempt to lead them from truth."
Text: POLLOI GAR ELEUSONTAI EPI TWi ONOMATI MOU LEGONTES:
EGW EIMI hO CRISTOS, KAI POLLOUS PLANHSOUSIN.
I am baffled by the suggested interpretation. It seems to me that the
suggested
intention would require -- at least normally -- something like
LEGONTES ME
EINAI TON CRISTON, or something similar. As for the suggestion that
these
POLLOI are sincere believers who somehow mislead many others, while I
can imagine such a scenario (there are all too many sincere people
who are
wrong-headed and mislead others!), I can't see it as indicated here: the
phrasing of the saying as a whole does not point to those who come
asserting anything other than that each such comer is himself the
Christ. In
sum I do think that EGW EIMI hO CRISTOS is a direct citation.
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)
1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
cwconrad2 at mac.com
WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
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Dear Friends,
Can I give you an example of a similar construction in English:
1/ For many will come, saying, "I am Christ", and they will lead many astray.
2/ For many will come, saying, I am Christ, and they will lead many astray.
The only difference is the presence, or lack of punctuation, punctuation, which is naturally missing in both Greek and Classical Latin.
The unambiguous version of case #2 incorporates 'that' before 'I am Christ', but English Grammar does not actually require it.
For the discourse to be indirect explicitly, I would expect 'hOTI', for Greek, or 'quia' for Latin to be placed where 'that' for English would be found. You are still left with the ambiguity in Greek or Latin, as to whether the reported words are in reported format, or verbatim format.
I would humbley suggest, that in the absence of 'hOTI', or 'quia', that the discourse be assumed to be direct, ie case #1.
--
Best regards,
Dave Smith.
(B.A.2,1, Science & Technology, Open Univerity.)
168 Bristol Road,
Frampton Cotterell,
Bristol, BS36 2AX,
U.K.
eMail <DaveAt168 at aol.com>
WWW: <http://www.sangallen56.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk>
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