[B-Greek] Transcendent ekeinos referent?

Harold Holmyard hholmyard at ont.com
Sat Aug 12 15:01:11 EDT 2006


Dear Jason,

>   
>  Thanks for the responses Herold and Elizabeth. I appreciate your patience 
>  with me. Although I have put my foot in my mouth previously when disagreeing with
>   some of the members of the list I *reluctantly* find myself *reluctant* to accept that
>  ekeinos transcends the immediate clause and refers all the way back to the first theos in John 1:18.
>  
>

HH: The majority view is not that EKEINOS refers back to the first use 
of QEOS in the verse. It is that it refers to the second use of QEOS in 
the verse, where QEOS is in the nominative. So EKEINOS refers back to 
another word in the same clause in the same case: "The only-begotten 
God, who is in the bosom of the Father, that one has given description."

>   
>  Are there any Biblical examples of a transcendent ekeinos referent? I know Elizabeth
>  mentioned extra-biblical uses, but if there are no biblical examples of this principle
>  then I would probably find myself shunning John 1:18 as a sole example. 
>   
>  Also, I know there is a strong consensus against John 1:18 being understood as the
>  words of John the Baptist, but I do not take Origen's stance on this issue lightly, and
>  when looking at the context I do not see any reason why his view cannot be
>  vindicated. These words were spoken after Christ's baptism, and they are no less 
>  profound than the Baptist's profession in John 3:25-35 (if we take the entire passage  to be spoken by him). 
>   
>  I am not trying to be contentious just for the sake of being thus,
>  greatfully and respectfully anticipating the groups response,
>  
>
HH: The style of the words in Jn 1:16-18 matches John the apostle, not 
John the Baptist (terms like MONOGENHS, CARIS (v. 14), and hO PATROS as 
a name for God). Also, John the Baptist was only announcing Christ's 
coming, but the language of 1:17 puts Christ's accomplishments in the 
past already. And Christ had not yet revealed God (1:18) when John the 
Baptist introduced him. So John 1:16-18 is much more suitably in the 
mouth of John the apostle.

Yours,
Harold Holmyard





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